What connects Poland with Vlad Impaler or to say Vlad Tepes or simple Dracula

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Mar 28, 10, 17:55 #31

The Wars of Independence in Yugoslavia were largely Slavic internal affairs, Crow. Allegiances were strained and friendships ruined over divided loyalty between Yugoslavia and ethnic kin.

As for Poland, Ukraine and Russia, all 3 constantly harp back to past wounds and differences. This is not a revelation, Crow, it's just fact. My wife thinks many Russians are 'dziki' (wild) and I'm sure similar sentiments are felt between Poles and Ukrainians.

A few lessons in conflict avoidance wouldn't have gone amiss. Celts too.

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Mar 28, 10, 17:56 #32

Crow, I really like Slavic people and some countries more than others (from the ones with Slavic heritage) but I would really appreciate if you could point out everything you want about the slavs in a different topic. I know it is your topic and you have all the right to write about everything you want, but don't get Vlad Tepes into your Slavic dream. It doesn't fit. The only connection we have is the christian religion and the fight against ottomans, but he was no Slav.
If you want to champion the fight for the christian values against the ottomans, be my guest, but don't champion any Slavic pride with getting people they are clearly not Slavs into your camp.
Much appreciated.

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Edited by: Crow Mar 28, 10, 23:36 #33

Darun

with all due respect but, you didn`t understand my point

As always, my threads has multiple purposes and analyze things from different angles. In this thread, among else, i present contribution of Slavic world to European and to global civilization. Dragon Order is result of our old Slavic/Sarmatian heritage and we can see here, on obvious example, how Slavs were able to organize something great that passed test of time.

Dragon Order was created by Slavs (particularly by Balkan Serbs) and later accepted by non-Slavs. So, Dragon Order was real Slavic invention that served to Slavic cause (considering that Slavs were first target of Ottoman Turkish invasion on Europe); then, served to Christianity because defended Christians oppressed and attacked by Islamic Turks and then also Dragon Order defended European civilization that was assaulted by non-Europeans.

As for Vlad Tepes- Dracula, his origin is questionable. He was probably Slavic but his ethnicity isn`t even important here. Vlad The Impaler wasn`t crucial member of Dragon Order but he was most controversial and for sure, conditions with he needed to deal with made him probably most eccentric and extreme member of Dragon Order.

That`s why i, in my above post said... SLAVIC GIFT TO CHRISTIANITY AND EUROPE - ORDER OF THE DRAGON - GALLERY OF DRAGON ORDER IMMORTALS (on the list are Slavs and non-Slavs). Let it be known, we- the Slavs did it for us, for Christianity and for this Europe, even for humankind... and we did good.

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Mar 28, 10, 23:41 #34

How about Croatian Vs Serbian fighting? I saw some horrific pictures from Vuckovar and Knin and I cannot imagine why anyone would do sth like that.

How about Ukrainian brutality against Poles in WWII? There is a Slavic brotherhood, Crow, but largely locked in romanticism. Poles believed Russians were coming to help them against Germany but Katyń should have told them otherwise.

Still, I don't wanna dash hopes and would be happy to meet you to discuss it.

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Mar 28, 10, 23:47 #35

I got the point Crow, and I would have actually liked to see a whole thread dedicated to the Order of the Dragon, is quite interesting topic. I just didn't like the fact that you mixed things, Vlad was not a Slav and fought not for the glory of the Slavic world but for Christianity in its whole. Of course at that time the Slavs fought for the same purpose, yet if you want to stress out only the Slavic aspect leave Vlad and Cantemir for that matter out - they were part of the Dragon who was indeed of Slavic heritage, but that's about it, and yes, if you want to look at it like that - in order to revert to the title - that would be the only connection between Vlad and Poland :).

Since we're at it, what happened to the Order? Was it dissmantled, was it kept alive up to our days or what?

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Edited by: Crow May 28, 10, 23:40 #36

Darun:

Since we're at it, what happened to the Order? Was it dissmantled, was it kept alive up to our days or what?

exist even today. Many seek to call itself Draconists

Original Dragon Order that was created by Serbians dispersed Dragon tradition via Poland (not surprisingly- via Sarmatian connection) all over the Europe.

as Milos Obilic said before entered in Kosovo battle to sacrifice himself in attempt to kill Turkish Sultan Murat (only Sultan that was killed on European-Turkish wars), while took his helmet in the shape of Dragon:

true Sarmat, Voivode Obilic in Kosovo battle, 1389, Serbs vs. Turks

FROM THE CHAOS

THERE IS ORDER.

FROM THE ORDER

THERE IS THE DRAGON.

WITH THE DRAGON

THERE IS VICTORY.

HAIL DRAGON! HAIL VICTORY!

Obilic lived as true Sarmat. Exactly that`s how he died, too. He brake the Turkish lines, killed Sultan Murad himself and then was slain by the rest of Sultan`s axe bodyguards. They cut Obilic to the little minces, while stomack of Sultan went out. It was too late for the head of the serpent (Sultan). Dragon (Obilic) did the job!

would be order again, would be Dragon, would be Sarmatia. God would help

MareGaeaThreads: 45 Posts: 5,529 Joined: Feb 6, 08 ♂	Edited by: MareGaea May 28, 10, 23:58 #37
I thought Vlad was Walachian, hence descending from the Dacians, hence Romanian, hence not Slavic? So to answer your question: nothing. But he did like the Turks so much indeed, he decided to invent the Turk-skewer. :) Seanus: Slavic brotherhood Non existent. >^..^< M-G (tiens)

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Edited by: Moderator May 29, 10, 00:04 #38

MareGaea:

Non existent

we can only note that western Europe, Islamists and Israel really doing their best to prove this statement. When it comes to Slavs they are all united. They interfere in inter-Slavic relations, all by old principle `divide and conquer`

bottom line is that they have great fear from Serbs. They have bigger fear from Serbs then from Russians. They are clever

MareGaea:

descending from the Dacians, hence Romanian, hence not Slavic?

for your information

Dacians were Sarmatians, meaning Slavs. Romanians are result of romanization imposed on Dacian population that happened after the Roman onslaught of Dacia.

The topic: What connects Poland with Vlad Impaler or to say Vlad Tepes or simple Dracula

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Edited by: Crow Jan 9, 11, 00:25 #39

and there is that story about Polish nobleman who visited Vlad of Ordo Draconis (The Dracula)

The Polish Nobleman
http://www.angelfire.com/realm/shades/demons/vampires/vlad9anecdotespo lishnobleman.htm

Benedict de Boithor, a Polish nobleman in the service of the King of Hungary, visited Dracula at Tirgoviste in September of 1458. At dinner one evening Dracula ordered a golden spear brought and set up directly in from of the royal envoy.

Dracula then asked the envoy why he thought this spear had been set up. Benedict replied that he imagined that some boyar had offended the prince and that Dracula intended to honor him. Dracula then responded that he had, in fact, had the spear set up in honor of his noble, Polish guest. The Pole then responded that had he done anything to deserve death that Dracula should do as he thought best. He further asserted that in that case Dracula would not be responsible for his death, rather he would be responsible for his own death for incurring the displeasure of the prince. Dracula was greatly pleased by this answer and showered the man with gifts while declaring that had he answered in any other manner he would have been immediately impaled.

Des EssientesThreads: 11 Posts: 2,148 Joined: Feb 6, 10 ♂	Jan 9, 11, 09:09 #40
When the Poles invaded Moldavia in 1450 Dracula fought them at the battle of Crasna.

GUZYThreads: 9 Posts: 17 Joined: Jun 4, 10 ♂	Mar 27, 11, 09:10 #41
Crow Crow, do you have historical evidence of the quote? I have seen Misericors, Pius et Justus on ancient insignia, but the below only on internet. Can you confirm if this was used during the reign of Order of the Dragon? FROM THE CHAOS THERE IS ORDER. FROM THE ORDER THERE IS THE DRAGON. WITH THE DRAGON THERE IS VICTORY. HAIL DRAGON! HAIL VICTORY!

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Mar 27, 11, 12:12 #42

GUZY:

Crow, do you have historical evidence of the quote? I have seen Misericors, Pius et Justus on ancient insignia, but the below only on internet. Can you confirm if this was used during the reign of Order of the Dragon?

Quote stays in connection with Dragon Order but, i can`t guarantee that quote was used in time of original Dragon Order.

Dragon Order is historical fact and you can read about it in, to say that way- `serious sources` but as for that particular quote and for many other particular things, you must investigate for yourself. While doing so have in mind that Dragon Order exist since 138* year to the modern days in many different variations.

CrowThreads: 365 Posts: 7,192 Joined: Feb 14, 07 ♂	Mar 27, 11, 12:40 #43
Order of the Dragon

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