The dark corner of Poland in the Holocaust

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Nov 8, 10, 00:40 #1

This is what I wanted to show you,” she says, taking another photograph. “It’s a kind of monument, but there is human ash underneath, and bones.” The evidence concealed marks a terrible and barbarous incident that will forever haunt Sokolow. The slab is the site of a mass grave, identified by Markusz after extensive research, unexhumed and undocumented.

Discuss.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/life-style/real-lives/how-one-polish-wom an-uncovered-her-town-s-shocking-role-in-the-holocaust-1.1062311

ZedThreads: - Posts: 304 Joined: May 25, 10 ♂	Nov 8, 10, 00:50 #2
? you discuss

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂	Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Nov 8, 10, 00:56 #3
Yeah...ordering people around with "discuss!" is never a good way to get a discussion started. Better try to summarize your opinion first... I for one have problems to see what the article is about....they are mostly talking about Germans killing Jews. And the odd Latvian and Ukrainian too..

Chicago PollockThreads: 10 Posts: 638 Joined: Apr 10, 10 ♂	Nov 8, 10, 02:59 #4
The roots of anti semitism is not in Poland or Germany, it's in the Roman Catholic Church. Heck, the Pope is an ex-Nazi.

enkiduThreads: 18 Posts: 983 Joined: Sep 23, 08 ♂	Nov 8, 10, 03:06 #5
Chicago Pollock: The roots of anti semitism is not in Poland or Germany, it's in the Roman Catholic Church. Heck, the Pope is an ex-Nazi. Probably that is the reason that Catholic Poland has served for the centuries as a safe heaven for the Jewish population from around the Europe.

Chicago PollockThreads: 10 Posts: 638 Joined: Apr 10, 10 ♂	Nov 8, 10, 03:15 #6
enkidu: Probably that is the reason that Catholic Poland has served for the centuries as a safe heaven for the Jewish population from around the Europe. Yes, re-read my sentence..."The roots of anti semitism is not in Poland" Who were the Jews escaping from in Europe? The same ones who had Galileo under house arrest for 30 years because he suggested the earth circled the Sun.

MediaWatchThreads: 31 Posts: 1,305 Joined: Aug 30, 08 ♂	Nov 8, 10, 03:19 #7
Chicago Pollock: The roots of anti semitism is not in Poland or Germany, it's in the Roman Catholic Church. Heck, the Pope is an ex-Nazi. Oh come on. The German Pope was not an ex-Nazi. He's a good man.

guesswhoThreads: 23 Posts: 3,326 Joined: Mar 17, 10 ♀	Edited by: guesswho Nov 8, 10, 03:53 #8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yG3FIs8B91g what kind of uniforms are those of the firing squad executing Jewish women? Are those Polish soldiers?

Sire BrensharThreads: 1 Posts: 86 Joined: Jan 23, 10 ♂	Nov 8, 10, 04:33 #9
Chicago Pollock: Heck, the Pope is an ex-Nazi. How terribly ignorant you are. By the end of the Second World War it became the obligatory for all German male teenagers to join Hitler Youth. Are you saying that all German kids from that time are true "Nazi's"?

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Edited by: grubas Nov 8, 10, 04:37 #10

guesswho:

what kind of uniforms are those of the firing squad executing Jewish women?

They didn't say in the show?This is "The Holocoust"show from 70s.

guesswho:

Are those Polish soldiers?

They don't look like and they don't look like any nation soldiers I know of.Those in the clip have kind of Polish "rogatywka" cap but rest of their uniforms looks very soviet to me.This is American production and one should not expect much of realism or history.
Here is Polish style cap wz 37

guesswhoThreads: 23 Posts: 3,326 Joined: Mar 17, 10 ♀	Edited by: guesswho Nov 8, 10, 04:50 #11
grubas: This is American production what do you mean? Are you saying that this video is new? (fake) Maybe so, I don't know. Then again, why would we fake something like that? Unless this is some kind of low budget private production.

BzibziohThreads: 6 Posts: 3,657 Joined: Oct 15, 08 ♀ [Suspended]	Nov 8, 10, 04:55 #12
guesswho: what do you mean? Are you saying that this video is new? Of course it's new. How many color films from 1942 you saw? With multiple camera angles? Looks like a macabre armchair ad. And wasting 3 bullets on one victim; not likely.

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Nov 8, 10, 05:04 #13

guesswho:

what do you mean? Are you saying that this video is new?

I told you this "The holocoust" show not wartime footage.

guesswho:

Then again, why would we fake something like that?

This is a piece of anti Polish propaganda.The caps they wear are Polish wz 1919

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Edited by: guesswho Nov 8, 10, 05:05 #14

Bzibzioh:

How many color films from 1942 you saw?

Just now, they're showing WW2 in color and those documentaries are real for sure. I don't know if they show it in Canada too. usually it's on history channel but not only.
Well, I wasn't sure about this particular video because it says execution in the Ghetto during the WW2 and then it shows, what I believed, Polish soldiers firing squad and this is kinda not adding up.

grubas:

This is a piece of anti Polish propaganda

I understand but it must be some low budget, private production of some Poland hater (maybe some Jew). You live here so you know that we wouldn't have any reason to show Poles in such a bad light.

grubasThreads: 20 Posts: 1,452 Joined: Feb 1, 10 ♂	Nov 8, 10, 05:31 #15
guesswho: I just found "Holocaust" on pirate bay. I'm going to download it and see if I'll find this scene in this movie. Cool, let us know who they are.

BzibziohThreads: 6 Posts: 3,657 Joined: Oct 15, 08 ♀ [Suspended]	Nov 8, 10, 05:33 #16
guesswho: Just now, they're showing WW2 in color and those documentaries are real for sure. From a Western front perhaps but not from Poland. guesswho: Polish soldiers firing squad and this is kinda not adding up. If they were Polish soldiers they would be in front of those guns, not behind them. It's ridiculous notion that Nazis would give any Polish soldier during ww2 a gun to their hand.

guesswhoThreads: 23 Posts: 3,326 Joined: Mar 17, 10 ♀	Edited by: guesswho Nov 8, 10, 05:39 #17
Bzibzioh: From a Western front perhaps but not from Poland. I'm going to check it out and will let you know later or you can do it yourself too. I assume that they remastered this documentaries and added color. Bzibzioh: It's ridiculous notion that Nazis would give any Polish soldier during ww2 a gun to their hand. That's why I said that it's not adding up.

grubasThreads: 20 Posts: 1,452 Joined: Feb 1, 10 ♂	Nov 8, 10, 05:42 #18
But wait, they can't be Polish!Polish firing squad stands in a circle.Right? Bzibzioh: From a Western front perhaps but not from Poland Not really.

guesswhoThreads: 23 Posts: 3,326 Joined: Mar 17, 10 ♀	Edited by: guesswho Nov 8, 10, 05:45 #19
grubas: But wait, they can't be Polish!Polish firing squad stands in a circle.Right? I believe that maybe they're the Jewish police in the ghetto just wearing Polish uniforms. Then again, Jews didn't have any guns, right? It's a little bit confusing. I'm going to find out if it's taken from the "Holocaust" miniseries (I personally doubt it. Probably some cheap production).

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Edited by: z_darius Nov 8, 10, 05:48 #20

guesswho:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yG3FIs8B91g

what kind of uniforms are those of the firing squad executing Jewish women? Are those Polish soldiers?

These are not Polish uniforms. The buttons are in the wrong place. Polish were in the middle, not to the side in the front as shown in the flick. Also, what are the pistols doing there? Only officers carried pistols. These soldiers are definitely not officers, no marking are present. Also, officers did not carry rifles.

The video is a wonderfully conceived Hollywood-style flick, with all the dramatic shots, facial expressions, zooms on the right parts of the action - Spielberg himself couldn't have done it better. Heck, I'm not even sure Spielberg would have as many cameras all over the place.

Did you wonder about the inefficiency of these "executions"? Are there 6 or 7 people involved in the alleged execution of the three persons? In that pace they wouldn't gotten through more than a few thousand Jews in the entire WW2 and we know that they did start killing them on a regular basis until around 1941.

And what about those people on the other side of the wall? How did they know the execution was about to take place? Germans did carry out publci execution, in which case a tall wall would be kinda pointless. Id, however, this is happening behind the wall, why aren't those so called witnesses killed, or at least dispersed?
To many things that don's add up.

In short, worthless garbage.

Attached are the two Polish uniform sets from WW2:

.t

.j

grubasThreads: 20 Posts: 1,452 Joined: Feb 1, 10 ♂	Edited by: grubas Nov 8, 10, 05:59 #21
guesswho: I believe that maybe they're the Jewish police in the ghetto just wearing Polish uniforms. There is Jewish police in the clip,they are the ones wearing yellow armbands. z_darius: And what about those people on the other side of the wall? How did they know the execution was about to take place? Germans advertised this kind of events and often people HAD to attend.

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Edited by: guesswho Nov 8, 10, 06:07 #22

grubas:

There is Jewish police in the clip,they are the ones wearing yellow armbands.

I saw that too but who the hell are those guys from the firing squad? One is for sure, they don't wear German uniforms. Now you showed proof that they don't wear Polish either so who are they? lol
You know, if it was a Hollywood production, like zd suggested, they would have their uniforms right for sure. Especially Spielberg does a really good job when it comes to that, just look at 'Schindler's List", in my eyes an excellent movie.

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Edited by: z_darius Nov 8, 10, 06:13 #23

grubas:

There is Jewish police in the clip,they are the ones wearing yellow armbands.

This is how Jewish police uniforms looked like (attachment). They weren't really uniforms but plain clothes except for the hat.
The fellas in the flick are wearing Polish Blue police uniforms with star of David.

guesswho:

Especially Spielberg does a really good job when it comes to this, just look at 'Schindler's List", in my eyes an excellent movie.

Spielberg is actually known to bend the truth somewhat, if he feels it is necessary. Not sure right now if it applies to uniforms, but nevertheless he is not really known to be a scrupulous WW2 scholar.

guesswho:

You know, if it was a Hollywood production, like zd suggested, they would have their uniforms right for sure.

I never said it was a Hollywood production.

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Edited by: grubas Nov 8, 10, 06:17 #24

guesswho:

Now you showed proof that they don't wear Polish either so who are they?

Acctually they wear Polish style caps,here is what I found ,look at the dude on the left.

Red band on the caps would be 1st Wielkopolski Cavalry Regiment.

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Edited by: guesswho Nov 8, 10, 06:29 #25

z_darius:

somewhat

somewhat is a good word. I know he changed few, little facts in "Schindler's List" to make it more interesting for viewers.

z_darius:

I never said it was a Hollywood production.

No, you called it Hollywood style flick which implicates certain similarity with real Hollywood production, right? I'm not trying to defend every little bit of what they do because some of it is really awful but some of it is great too.

grubas:

Red band on the caps would be 1st Wielkopolski Cavalry Regiment.

I guess, those Jewish "forces" were wearing whatever was available at that time so they could be just as well wearing Polish uniforms of the 1st Wielkopolski Cavalry Regiment.
To be honest, they must be Jews because if not the Germans and Poles, who else could they be?

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Edited by: grubas Nov 8, 10, 06:39 #26

guesswho:

You know, if it was a Hollywood production, like zd suggested, they would have their uniforms right for sure.

You kidding?

Guys in blue are supposed to be Polish hussars.buhaha

guesswho:

I guess, those Jewish "forces" were wearing whatever was available at that time so they could be just as well wearing Polish uniforms of the 1st Wielkopolski Cavalry Regiment

No.The firing squad are soldiers not police either Jewish or Polish.And they don't wear David's stars, EVERY Jew had to Police or not.

guesswhoThreads: 23 Posts: 3,326 Joined: Mar 17, 10 ♀	Nov 8, 10, 06:43 #27
grubas: You kidding? I meant more the period of WW2

grubasThreads: 20 Posts: 1,452 Joined: Feb 1, 10 ♂	Nov 8, 10, 06:56 #28
guesswho: To be honest, they must be Jews because if not the Germans and Poles, who else could they be? Oh I know who they are!They are those misterious Nazis we hear about all the time.

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Edited by: 1jola Nov 8, 10, 08:05 #29

Chicago Pollock:

The roots of anti semitism is not in Poland or Germany, it's in the Roman Catholic Church. Heck, the Pope is an ex-Nazi.

I am against calling blacks niggers or Poles Polacks, but you, sir, wear that slur well. If you only could spell it correctly.

As to the article, there is so much wrong with it, it can be classified as an anti-Polish propaganda persistant in the western press. I'll get back to it. The OP should have posted it in the Media's slander of Poland thread.

The video. A real anti-Polish fantasy piece. What we have here is a Polish blue police officer suprvising a "Polish" firing squad and Jewish ghetto police helping out in the executions. Nothing is right in it. The arm bands of the victims are from the Warsaw ghetto, they are strolling around as if waiting for a friend. The arm bands of the Jewish policemen are a fantasy combination just like many displayed in American Holocaust museums. The Polish soldiers' uniformes are a fantasy for that time period. I'm interested to know which film this clip is from.

No Polish army soldier could have nor did execute any Jews in any ghetto in occupied Poland. This clip is pure slander and should be marked as such on Youtube.

Harry, why are you posting under Polish Traitor now? Your suspension has been lifted.

♂ [Suspended]

Nov 8, 10, 08:25 #30

1jola:

I'll get back to it.

When you've found some lies to tell about it eh? Can't let an article about a brave Polish woman is trying to build bridges between Jews and Poles go unlied about, can you?

1jola:

The OP should have posted it in the Media's slander of Poland thread.

No, you should have posted your lies there instead of here. After all, that thread is where you've been telling some of your best lies recently.

I'll have to see if this exhibition is going to be repeated, that town is only a couple of hours from me. Now that I think about it, I'll be passing by the town next week on my way to Sobibor.

edited

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