13 of December - the anniversary of MARTIAL LAW in Poland

miranda

Edited by: miranda Dec 12, 07, 07:16 #1

Martial law in Poland (Polish: Stan wojenny) refers to the period of time from December 13, 1981 to July 22, 1983 when the government of the People's Republic of Poland drastically restricted normal life in an attempt to crush the political opposition against the Communist rule in the country. Tens of thousands of people were arrested without charge and as many as 100 were killed.

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I remember that day like it was today - my father tried to watch TV - instead of the regular program, General Jaruzelski delivered the speech on national TV and polish radio was playing only classical music that day. What a shocking Sunday that was for Polish people.

szkotja2007Threads: 38 Posts: 2,544 Joined: Dec 29, 06 ♂	Dec 12, 07, 07:27 #2
Quoting: miranda General Jaruzelski Why was he never brought to account for his actions ? What about the Wujek coal mine and other things he was involved in ? Strange.

lesserThreads: 7 Posts: 2,014 Joined: Oct 19, 07 ♂	Dec 12, 07, 09:44 #3
Nothing strange, communists would never gave up their power if they would not be sure of security guarantees. They have many agents among so called democratic opposition.

plk123Threads: 30 Posts: 6,412 Joined: Aug 29, 07 ♂	Dec 12, 07, 10:20 #4
jar might have saved PL from soviet tanks rolling on in that day.

z_dariusThreads: 22 Posts: 5,091 Joined: Oct 18, 07 ♂	Dec 12, 07, 10:34 #5
Quoting: plk123 jar might have saved PL from soviet tanks rolling on in that day. That's what seems to be the historic truth. East Germans also offered "help" within Poland. You know, the people who knoced down the Wall when the foundations were already demolished :)

lesserThreads: 7 Posts: 2,014 Joined: Oct 19, 07 ♂	Dec 12, 07, 11:30 #6
<div class="quoting">Quoting: plk123 jar might have saved PL from soviet tanks rolling on in that day. </div> Vladimir Bukovsky, "Moskiewski Proces: Dysydent w archiwach Kremla"

Grzegorz_Threads: 81 Posts: 6,213 Joined: Nov 16, 06 ♂	Dec 12, 07, 11:40 #7
Quoting: plk123 jar might have saved PL from soviet tanks rolling on in that day. That's a story about a good Jaruzel made up by commies to protect their asses.

lesserThreads: 7 Posts: 2,014 Joined: Oct 19, 07 ♂	Dec 13, 07, 16:39 #8
IPN finally discovered what many knew long time ago. Jaruzelski is the one to blame for Marial Law without any excuses. Even in TVN they talked in such mood. Few years more, Jaruzel and his pals pass away and this version will be even in schoolbooks.

plk123Threads: 30 Posts: 6,412 Joined: Aug 29, 07 ♂	Dec 13, 07, 21:23 #9
Quoting: lesser Vladimir Bukovsky, "Moskiewski Proces: Dysydent w archiwach Kremla" hmmm. i surely recall russian soldiers in the summer prior all over the rr stations, bus terminals, airports and the like. maybe they had no intent but they were already posturing. believe you me, i am not a fan of jar by any stretch of imagination.

♂

Dec 13, 07, 22:58 #10

To my knowledge, the most eager ones were the East Germans. They were enthusiastic to offer their troops to help destroy the freedom movement in Poland. Russians were smart enough to see the offer as, politically and historically, the most stupid thing since Hitler's attack on the USSR and rejected the offer.

Soviet forces though were indeed considered. Of all the countries witnessing the muscle flexing China was the one which, unoficially and in the back rooms of diplomacy, but nevertheless warned the USSR against using their own forces. I don't know what exactly the warning contained and what leverage it had. All I know is that before and on Dec. 13th Jaruzelski was unaware of the Chinese position.

SeanBMThreads: 41 Posts: 8,727 Joined: Mar 10, 08 ♂	Dec 14, 08, 09:58 #11
The face I have learned to hate I could not find an appropriate thread to post this in. Please move if applicable.

SeanBMThreads: 41 Posts: 8,727 Joined: Mar 10, 08 ♂	Dec 14, 08, 10:05 #12
13 of December - the anniversary of MARTIAL LAW in Poland

BorrkaThreads: 49 Posts: 770 Joined: Apr 25, 08 ♂	Edited by: Borrka Dec 14, 08, 10:54 #13
In January 1982 our Russian friends sent to us trucks with vinyl Ded Moroz (Santa). For Polish kids. Next time I prefere Snegurochka (Snow Maiden) pleaseees ! PS. Moscow offer for X-mass: Visit of Ded Moroz with Snegurochka 100 $ Snegurochka only 250 $

ConstantineKThreads: 35 Posts: 1,949 Joined: May 10, 07 ♂	Dec 14, 08, 13:30 #14
This time represents the clear example of government weakness, both PPR and USSR. All these people riots may be perfectly cured by case-shot. You should have a gut to use it, but it is unavoidable. I hardly could imagine such situation in times of Nicolas I who examplary showed the healing power of this remedy almost two centuries ago.

SashaThreads: 2 Posts: 1,597 Joined: Apr 19, 08 ♂	Dec 14, 08, 15:46 #15
Borrka: Snegurochka only 250 $ per hour :) +50$ for each new passenger

♂

Dec 14, 11, 05:34 #16

Merged: 30th Anniversary of Martial Law

Please forgive me if it appears I'm beating a dead horse but I can't restrain myself. All evening long I'm watching archival films and listening to eyewitness accounts from that time in December, 1981. A time that I know from personal experience. Now, for me, it's a distant memory but for many, many Poles, apparently, it still haunts them. They remain angry. I can't help but think about South Africa's "Truth and Reconcilliation" effort and how Poland would benefit from something similar.
Maybe these are the words of a sentimental fool- maybe not. All I know is that this "stan wojeny" thing is cancerous and needs to be excised. Why hasn't that happened? Is it too early? Unimportant?
Lack of leadership?......This really vexes me; I'm not quite sure why :(

Paul Quaker	Dec 14, 11, 08:23 #17
That's rubbish, Soviets WERE asked by Jaruzelski but refused to get openly involved. I'm sad to see somebody repeating Jar's defence in a parrot fashion.

HarryThreads: 62 Posts: 8,508 Joined: May 2, 07 ♂ [Suspended]	Dec 14, 11, 09:41 #18
Paul Quaker: That's rubbish, Soviets WERE asked by Jaruzelski but refused to get openly involved. Which explains why Czech army officers (despite not having warm feelings for Jaruzelski, after he ordered Polish troops to make the most recent Polish invasion of Czechoslovakia) say that they were issued for fuel and ammo for an invasion of Poland.

Mr GrunwaldThreads: 34 Posts: 2,358 Joined: Dec 16, 08 ♂	Edited by: Mr Grunwald Dec 14, 11, 10:45 #19
Harry: Which explains why Czech army officers (despite not having warm feelings for Jaruzelski, after he ordered Polish troops to make the most recent Polish invasion of Czechoslovakia) say that they were issued for fuel and ammo for an invasion of Poland. you should go with it to Gazeta Wyborcza, maybe they will hear you out. Let it go national! If it's the truth?

HarryThreads: 62 Posts: 8,508 Joined: May 2, 07 ♂ [Suspended]	Dec 14, 11, 10:59 #20
Mr Grunwald: you should go with it to Gazeta Wyborcza, maybe they will hear you out. Let it go national! If it's the truth? Operation Krkonose is already well known. Unfortunately some people, such as you, are very simply not interested in truth which does not fit their view of what really happened.

Mr GrunwaldThreads: 34 Posts: 2,358 Joined: Dec 16, 08 ♂	Dec 14, 11, 11:01 #21
Harry: Operation Krkonose is already well known. Unfortunately some people, such as you, are very simply not interested in truth which does not fit their view of what really happened. sorry but, I am never going to thank a commie scum for anything especially a noble traitor! They could all get hanged for what I care

HarryThreads: 62 Posts: 8,508 Joined: May 2, 07 ♂ [Suspended]	Dec 14, 11, 11:19 #22
Mr Grunwald: sorry but, I am never going to thank a commie scum for anything especially a noble traitor! They could all get hanged for what I care So you have no interest in the truth; how surprising.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Dec 14, 11, 13:05 #23
Another day left largely ignored by Poles. Odd!

♂

Edited by: Mr Grunwald Dec 14, 11, 14:12 #24

Harry:

So you have no interest in the truth; how surprising.

Stop lying, I have an interesst in the truth, (didn't I say that you should get it to Gazeta Wyborcza so that it could get published and maybe discussed?)
It just won't change a fact that that swine was working for the party and not for Poland. Letting an invasion in would mean disfavor for the government, unless it took a radical position and de-communized itself.

Seanus:

Another day left largely ignored by Poles. Odd!

Hardly surprising
I don't care much for that guy, nor should anyone

♂ [Suspended]

Dec 14, 11, 14:19 #25

Mr Grunwald:

Stop lying, I have an interesst in the truth, (didn't I say that you should get it to Gazeta Wyborcza so that it could get published and maybe discussed?)
It just won't change a fact that that swine was working for the party and not for Poland. Letting an invasion in would mean disfavor for the government, unless it took a radical position and de-communized itself.

Er, I think that you might find an invasion of Poland by the combined forces of the Warsaw pact would have been more than a little damaging to the country. Especially as Poles would have probably not taken the smart approach the Czechs displayed when invaded by overwhelming force (whether that force be Polish and Nazi or Polish and Soviet).

isthatu2Threads: 13 Posts: 5,225 Joined: Apr 3, 08 ♂	Dec 14, 11, 14:51 #26
Who is this Stan Wojeny bloke?

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