Destruction of Ukrainian churches in Poland in 1938

Yes but their descendants spoke Polish Einstein!

Anyhow let sleeping dogs lie. Relations are very good right now, Poland is batting for Ukrainian entry into the EU, Kwasniewski mediated between the two parties during the Orange Revolution on Kuchma's request etc.

and, the land of Ukraine as perceived by some Poles long ago, more like the eastern southern part from the time of the golden horde onwards-incidentally the Ukraine was freed from the Tatar yoke by Lithuania at the battle of the Blue waters 1362

Akcja Wisla

Even I speak Polish, which does not make me Polish, or does it?

Apparently one of the reasons for the migration of some Poles to the east, was because those who won the Virtuti Militari were promised a farm in the east. I just recently read that in a book, presumably at the expense of the locals.

Apparently one of the reasons for the migration of some Poles to the east, was because those who won the Virtuti Militari were promised a farm in the east. I just recently read that in a book, presumably at the expense of the locals.

even I found better sources for Volyn, you are such a loser lol Please stop putting me to sleep.........

even I found better sources for Volyn, you are such a loser lol Please stop putting me to sleep

still don't see your point, since in that particular area both sides spoke each other languages. Even I speak Polish, which does not make me Polish, or does it?[/q[quote=aphrodisiac]even I found better sources for Volyn, you are such a loser lol Please stop putting me to sleep.........and everybody else for that matter. How repetitive can one get, ha?I bet you are under sexed because of your big mouth. Scares all the birds away......

By all means please go to sleep, the collective intelligence of this debate will increase considerably:)

so you got nothing else to say. Hmmmmm......

Do you have anything else to say

Bereza Kartuska

so you got nothing else to say. Hmmmmm......

I notice that there is an increasingly greater amount of Ukrainians looking for work in Poland

So for instance does the Ukrainian minority in Poland have a higher standard of living than their people in the Ukraine?

If your people ie. people of Ukrainian heritage would find themselves on Polish territory, like some do, or if the Polish borders were somewhat further east than they are now, would you disagree with the proposition that they would have a slightly higher standard of living, greater opportunities and more political freedom

Try to answer the questions directly do not divert to other topics, I do not ask the question out of malice

So for instance does the Ukrainian minority in Poland have a higher standard of living than their people in the Ukraine?

I notice that there is an increasingly greater amount of Ukrainians looking for work in Poland

greater well being would be quite hard to refute.

if you choose not to answer the questions I will have the answers to my questions regardless.

If he doesnt reply ill post some pictures for a nice shiny comparison, suffice to say an average ukrainian in ukraine lives like a bloody squatter.

Wellbeing should be the deciding factor in this argument, I am a firm believer in the prosperity of all Poles and Ukrainians:)

The attitude of the Ukrainians of that time is well shown in the statements of Mykhailo Hrushevskyj, an early Ukrainian nationalists leader, who claimed that: "the four centuries of Polish rule had left particularly destructive effects (...) economic and cultural backwardness in Galicia was the main "legacy of historical Poland, which assiduously skimmed everything that could be considered the cream of the nation, leaving it in a state of oppression and helplessness".[6]

give Germany the land since Germans will definitely raise Polish standards to the level you won't need to put tiles in the WC in some foreign country in order to provide decent living for your family.

Of course, I would.

it is what I will call the African test, as Africa finds itself most often in this category.

if you choose not to answer the questions I will have the answers to my questions regardless.

All these link I provided for you to see that the territories of modern Ukraine and Bielorus' were Orthodox since the time of Kievan Rus' and its christenizing in 988. As you might imagine there were hundreds of Orthodox churches before Russia even came to exist as a state or Polish state encroached on these territories. Uniates, not even Catholic, churches came to life from the Orthodox churches in 1596 and were based on those same Orthodox Christians who agreed to recognize the pope while keeping the Orthodox rite in their liturgical life. So, your claims that Russian tsar built churches in Volyn' and Poles destroyed those so-called "tsar churches" are preposterous.

At the time of the first partition of Poland in 1772, there were some 4.7 million Uniates in the Polish-Lithuanian state and barely 400000 Orthodox believers.

But again you avoid my question of why these churches were left untouched and Russian Orthodox in the middle of Polish capital and Poles who were so eager to fight tsar and his policies went all the way to Volyn' and started destruction of Ukrainian churches there as a revindication? Hope this time you'll answer my question.

Why do you show pictures of UNBURNED RUSSIAN CHURCH IN THE MIDDLE OF FREAKING CAPITAL OF YOURS and give this as an example of your REVINDICATION on RUSSIAN policy

You still haven't explained the huge Russian Orthodox church you have in Warsaw

by still existing Czech government, that very Voloshyn (a Ukrainian priest, by the way) tried to preserve independance of this land WHILE BEING SUPPORTED BY CZECH TROOPS WHICH KNEW ABOUT THE INDEPENDANCE BECAUSE IT WAS FREAKING DECLARED AND EVERYONE KNEW. But since Hitler refused its independance he and the CZECH army retreated unwilling to die against the overpowering force.

When, on March 14, 1939, Slovakia declared itself independent, Czechoslovakia in effect ceased to exist and Carpatho-Ukraine found itself in a political vacuum. Voloshyn responded by declaring late in the evening of March 14 Carpatho-Ukraine’s independence and calling on the German government to accept it as a protectorate....
After his election by the diet as president of Carpatho-Ukraine, Voloshyn was faced with the following realities: Nazi Germany rejected his request that Carpatho-Ukraine become a protectorate; the Hungarian government delivered an ultimatum calling upon the Carpathian Sich to cease its military resistance; and the Czechoslovak Army evacuated the region. Voloshyn decided to dismiss the cabinet just chosen by the diet and, together with the leading activists of Carpatho-Ukraine, he left immediately for Romania and eventually Prague which by then was part of Germany’s Third Reich.

How can you say how popular or unpopular were the policy of the country if it existed only a few days or even hours?

the attitude of the Ukrainians of that time is well shown in the statements of Mykhailo Hrushevskyj, an early Ukrainian nationalists leader, who claimed that: "the four centuries of Polish rule had left particularly destructive effects (...) economic and cultural backwardness in Galicia was the main "legacy of historical Poland, which assiduously skimmed everything that could be considered the cream of the nation, leaving it in a state of oppression and helplessness".[6]

The Cultural confrontation between the Ukrainians and the Poles cost the former dearly: it forced Ukrainian nobles to choose between their own stagnant, impoverished cultural heritage an the vibrant attractive Catholic/Polish culture. Not surprisingly, the vast majority opted for Catholicism and the Polonization that invariably followed. Consequently, the Ukrainian lost their noble elite.

the four centuries of Polish rule had left particularly destructive effects (...) economic and cultural backwardness in Galicia was the main "legacy of historical Poland

Austrohungary's fault?

Here are fragments from the book

Everyone knew about the independence? And by independence you mean Nazi protectorate?

In late September 1938, Hungary had supported Nazi Gernmany by mobilizing between 200,000 and 350,000 ill-trained and ill-equipped men on the Slovak and Ruthenian borders, ready to invade Czechoslovakia in case of war between Germany and Czechoslovakia.

On November 2, 1938, this found largely in favour of the Hungarians and obliged the Prague government to cede 11,833 km² of Slovakia and Ruthenia to Hungary.The ineffectiveness of the Prague government in protecting their interests stirred Slovak and Ruthene nationalism further

The Hungarian Army continued their advance, pushing forward at top speed, and reached the Polish border on March 17. Sich volunteers who came from the province of Galicia and captured by Hungarians were handed over to Polish soldiers and were executed in a few days. The fate of the captive Sich soldiers was a dramatic one. After a short hold in captivity they were taken to the banks of Tisa river and executed in large numbers

That quote was about autonomous Subcarpathian Rus/Carpatho-Ukraine!!!!

In October 1938, he was the head of the Subcarpathian Autonomous Region. During the total destruction of Czechoslovakia by Hitler's Germany, he tried to preserve Carpatho-Ukraine independence and became president of Carpatho-Ukraine for a few hours (March 15, 1939) with the help of the rest of the Czechoslovakian army. On March 19, 1939, Voloshyn under the protection of last Czechoslovakian troops retreated to the Romanian Kingdom's border, which was Czechoslovakia's ally. Subcarpathia was occupied by Hungary.

At the time of the first partition of Poland in 1772, there were some 4.7 million Uniates in the Polish-Lithuanian state and barely 400000 Orthodox believers.

The church in question was transfered into Catholic Cathedral in 1919, and I already posted something about it.
Only two Orthodox churches were left untouched in Polish capital. Do you know how many other were destroyed or converted into Catholic churches? Were all 'Ukrainian' churches destroyed or given back to Catholic faithful? No! So your divagations make no sense.

Carpatho-Ukraine under Voloshyn’s government became a tool in the hands of OUN activists, and even more so it was used by Nazi Germany for its own purposes.

In Carpatho-Ukraine itself an authoritarian regime was set up and characterized by:
(1) a single-party system;
(2) the adoption of a Ukrainian nationalist ideology as an official yet unconstitutional means of struggle against anyone with different political views, which permitted internment without trial at a camp in *Dumen;
(3) the establishment of a paramilitary organization, the *Carpathian Sich, which implemented by force the generally unpopular decrees of the Voloshyn government;
(4) the abolition of an independent judiciary.

He was professor of mathematics at Uzhhorod Teacher Institute from 1900 to 1917. In 1918, he became head of the Subcarpathian National Council, which in 1919 asked Czechoslovakia to confederate Transcarpathia into Czechoslovakia. This was realised in Autumn 1919. In 1925, he was voted as MP in Houses of Parliament in Prague (as a leader of Ruthenian National Christian Party). In October 1938, he was the head of the Subcarpathian Autonomous Region.

The communists, strong in the poor province, attempted to appeal to the Ukrainian element by espousing union with Soviet Ukraine. In 1935 the communists polled 25 percent of the Ruthenian vote. The elections of 1935 gave only 37 percent of the Ruthenian vote to political parties supporting the Czechoslovak government. The communists, Unified Magyars, and autonomist groups polled 63 percent.

Here are fragments from the book

The Cultural confrontation between the Ukrainians and the Poles cost the former dearly: it forced Ukrainian nobles to choose between their own stagnant, impoverished cultural heritage an the vibrant attractive Catholic/Polish culture. Not surprisingly, the vast majority opted for Catholicism and the Polonization that invariably followed. Consequently, the Ukrainian lost their noble elite.

they should move to Ukraine !

Ukraine is not specifically interested in Peremyshel and Holm regions to make a move. But if you insist, well, someday your wish might be granted ;)

which you failed to mention has failed premise. Africa is not a country, but a continent with a different ethnic make up and a very complex history, hardly comparable to anything. therefore this test would produce false results and even if I don't answer your question, you:

Africa is not a country, but a continent with a different ethnic make up and a very complex history

No it is not, you are an extremely perceptive individual, ever thought of teaching geography?

That is what I mean by having an answer to my question without you even answering it:)

of course you are not,you would rather engage in silly semantics and avoid the issue at all cost.

you know my father's family has a very typically Ukrainian surname and that's because his ancestors came from the Ukraine. and I 'am very grateful that they saw fit to get Polonised, and thank goodness for the Polish eastern civilizing mission.

I would not say that Polonization had anything to do with civilization in a broad sense,