German Traitor And Polish Pig

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Jun 9, 11, 16:54 #1

Film Forbidden love - the story of Bronia and Gerhard

Shocking record of penalized and humiliated love between a 16 - Polish and 19-year-old Silesian. In 1941 someone recorded the entire process: village community, children from Hitlerjugend, the Gestapo lead Bronka and Gerhard, shave their heads, leaving only the pig tails, make them burn their hair. She is wearing a sack and a plate with inscription: "I'm Polish pig", his says: "I am a traitor to the German nation".

SokratesThreads: 19 Posts: 4,464 Joined: Jan 19, 09 ♂ [Suspended]	Jun 9, 11, 16:59 #2
Whats the point of this vid Ender? Also said Gerhard is not a Silesian he's a German and i smell a cheap provocation.

PalivecThreads: - Posts: 333 Joined: Apr 22, 11 ♂	Jun 9, 11, 17:03 #3
Sokrates: Whats the point of this vid Ender? Also said Gerhard is not a Silesian he's a German and i smell a cheap provocation. You probably won't believe this, but before 1945 Germans from Silesia were Silesians. Shocking, I know...

enderThreads: 13 Posts: 528 Joined: Nov 7, 09 ♂	Edited by: ender Jun 9, 11, 17:06 #4
I haven't seen it till today. Is it provocation? Yes. I'm not sure about the price. Obviously it's forbidden in Germany so BB may educate himself here. Palivec: You probably won't believe this, but before 1945 Germans from Silesia were Silesians. No he is pointing to German version with different names and man nationality. I wouldn't trust Germans anyway.

JonnyMThreads: 16 Posts: 4,487 Joined: Mar 9, 11 ♂	Jun 9, 11, 17:26 #5
ender: Obviously it's forbidden in Germany Maybe a source for that? No?

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂	Edited by: Moderator Jun 9, 11, 17:27 #6
ender: Yes. I'm not sure about the price. Obviously it's forbidden in Germany so BB may educate himself here. Wot??? Actually my first thought was about the trials of the shaven women in France and Holland, punished for their love for german soldiers....

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Jun 9, 11, 17:36 #7

Palivec:

You probably won't believe this, but before 1945 Germans from Silesia were Silesians. Shocking, I know...

Nope, Silesians are a distinct ethnic group thats about 100.000 large, possibly smaller, everyone else is just an ihhabitant of Silesia, thats like calling US citizen a native american.

You're, as always excused for your ignorance.

ender:

I haven't seen it till today. Is it provocation? Yes.

So whats the point of it? Pretty much every Pole knows Germans are f*cked up but we have to learn and get along, there's money to be made and a common future to be built, there wont be any love anytime soon but it'll come given time.

sobieskiThreads: 82 Posts: 1,143 Joined: Jun 1, 08 ♂	Jun 9, 11, 17:36 #8
Bratwurst Boy: Actually my first thought was about the trials of the shaven women in France and Holland, punished for their love for german soldiers.... You know that in France in 1944 prostitutes were not punished for their "relations" with Germans? Because it was considered they were working. Besides of that, I wonder what the intention is of the OP? He does not know that this was Germany...

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Jun 9, 11, 18:16 #9

Sokrates:

Nope, Silesians are a distinct ethnic group thats about 100.000 large, possibly smaller, everyone else is just an ihhabitant of Silesia, thats like calling US citizen a native american.

That is because all Germans in Silesia in 1945 were 1. murdered 2.murdered during "evacuations" to the West 3. murdered in ex-Nazi concentrations camps 4. deported to Siberia 5. Pretended to be Polish to save their skin.
Nemmersdorf was not a detail, it was routine.

PennBoyThreads: 157 Posts: 3,441 Joined: Dec 7, 08 ♂	Jun 9, 11, 18:29 #10
ender: the Gestapo lead Bronka and Gerhard, shave their heads, leaving only the pig tails, make them burn their hair. She is wearing a sack and a plate with inscription: "I'm Polish pig", his says: "I am a traitor to the German nation". I could sort of understand if it was stupid teenagers pulling something like that, but for adults to do that to them, messed up in the head.

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Jun 9, 11, 18:33 #11

sobieski:

That is because all Germans in Silesia in 1945 were 1. murdered 2.murdered during "evacuations" to the West 3. murdered in ex-Nazi concentrations camps 4. deported to Siberia 5. Pretended to be Polish to save their skin.

And your point is?

PennBoy:

I could sort of understand if it was stupid teenagers pulling something like that, but for adults to do that to them, messed up in the head.

Who do you think ran Wechrmacht, Gestapo, SS, NSDAP etc, teenagers?

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Jun 9, 11, 18:50 #12

Those were very bad days ... my grandfather's elder brother had a German friend who betrayed him and got him killed. That person used to be close to our family in those times.

Germans had something of a "supremacist" idea going along in their head. They felt invincible. In any case, Germany was never really known for its love or heart ... its known for machines, mechanical stuff...

At best, I do agree, we have to move forward, and cannot really afford to keep old days alive. The best is to remember the experiences and be more careful next time ...

PennBoyThreads: 157 Posts: 3,441 Joined: Dec 7, 08 ♂	Jun 9, 11, 18:56 #13
Sokrates: Who do you think ran Wechrmacht, Gestapo, SS, NSDAP etc, teenagers? Uh that's what i said. I know it was adults that's why i dont understand their actions, they should be smarter and more humane.

Antek_StalichThreads: 6 Posts: 1,533 Joined: May 6, 11 ♂	Jun 9, 11, 19:36 #14
PennBoy: I know it was adults that's why i dont understand their actions, they should be smarter and more humane. Nazis?

SokratesThreads: 19 Posts: 4,464 Joined: Jan 19, 09 ♂ [Suspended]	Jun 9, 11, 19:37 #15
PennBoy: Uh that's what i said. I know it was adults that's why i dont understand their actions, they should be smarter and more humane. Even today Germans, our BB included believe themselves to be a superior species.

pammycatThreads: 2 Posts: 50 Joined: Nov 6, 10 ♀	Jun 9, 11, 19:57 #16
ender: No. This doesn't really surprise me. Germany (unlike Poland) doesn't ban things.

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Jun 9, 11, 20:20 #17

On the other hand, the times were indeed cruel. My Dad was liberated in West Germany by the English in 1945 from slavery work. After short service in the Auxilliary Forces, he was demobilized and became a Displaced Person. DP's were stationed in barracks and if I remember his stories, also in German houses. My Dad became a foreman and his task was also maintaining peace and good conduct among other DPs.

He told me he had been experiencing big problems with maintaining order among the crowd of multi-national mix of people demoralized during the war. For example, favourite pastime of some group of those people was humiliating German women by painting them with shoe polish so those poor creatures were resembling Negroes and were jeered at. My Dad handled it by dissolving the group and merging individuals of that group with more peaceful crowd.

Many things used to happen.

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Jun 9, 11, 20:45 #18

Sokrates:

Nope, Silesians are a distinct ethnic group thats about 100.000 large, possibly smaller, everyone else is just an ihhabitant of Silesia, thats like calling US citizen a native american.

You're, as always excused for your ignorance.

Yes, a culture that developed at the intersection between the Polish, German and Czech culture is the same as American natives, lol.
Todays Silesians are simply the rest of a cultural-historical process in Silesia that was eradicated after 1945.

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Jun 9, 11, 20:51 #19

The war ended over 65 years ago, long before any of us were born. What's the point in all those people dieing while fighting for peace when all this hatred continues among people who weren't even born then.

My Dad told me something only the other day. Dad was a submariner, not during the war, long after. However, about 15 years ago Dad got a phone call from the steward of the Naval association club, who like Dad was also an ex submariner. He said to Dad "Can you get down here now, there's someone I want you to meet" When Dad arrived an ex U-boatman was there, he was on holiday from Germany and had walked into the Naval association club introduced himself and said he would like to meet some British submariners, so the steward phoned around every submariner he knew, some of them also having served during the war. The old U boatman was the third and last survivor of a U-boat that had been torpedoed many stories were swapped between the old man and the British submariners who had served during the war, my Dad had many stories from his father who was in the Navy during the war. These men had fought each other at sea during the war, yet in peacetime they drank together and shared stories.

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Jun 9, 11, 21:16 #20

Daisy:

These men

The Taliban once were America's best friend ... nowadays its not unheard that some of them after surrendering sit and laugh at each other too ... doesn't mean that their hands are washed from the murders they committed to the thousands of civilians who are not soldiers.

Its about the ordinary everyday people, they are the ones who suffer the most - unreasonably. However, the soldiers can gather and start laughing and drinking, sharing stories about how he attacked and he defended and they attacked or they defended ... the ones who were mere victims of this unholy mess remain in the graves and their families being uprooted or changed forever. Many things never recovered after the war ... many families were completely finished or totally (and unwanted) changed forever.

Yes, the was is very old now, but nothing is so old that it can be completely erased. There are lessons to be learned ... peace is the only solution, accepted - but lessons are to be learned ... the Germans have their way of life, their mentality, their approach to matters ... while we have ours. The best is to understand each other and live/trade as peacefully as possible ... while being aware and alert at the same time.

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Jun 9, 11, 21:26 #21

Lodz_The_Boat:

However, the soldiers can gather and start laughing and drinking, sharing stories about how he attacked and he defended and they attacked or they defended ... the ones who were mere victims of this unholy mess remain in the graves and their families being uprooted or changed forever

Those men had families too. They left wives and children behind, not knowing if they would ever see them again, they went to defend theirs and other families. I think you've watched too many Hollywood movies, that might be how Tom Cruise et al., portray war veterens, Hollywood is nothing like the real thing.

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Jun 9, 11, 21:33 #22

Daisy:

These men had fought each other at sea during the war, yet in peacetime they drank together and shared stories.

I don't mean to stir the pot Daisy but your heartwarming tale of buried hatchett camaraderie can be explained by the fact that it took place between submariners from nations with Germanic roots who hadn't been locked in a brutal struggle unto the death for one thousand years like Poles and Germans have been. This is a Polish discussion forum and the sickening dehumanization of Poles that Germans perpetrated in WW2, as is evinced by the text of the sign Bronia was forced to wear, was not done by the Germans to the British.

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Edited by: JonnyM Jun 9, 11, 21:36 #23

Des Essientes:

it took place between submariners from nations with Germanic roots

Not all British people have 'Germanic roots' - they can just as easily have Irish roots only. It wouldn't make much difference either way, since the Anglo-Saxon invasions were around 40 generations ago. The British don't feel some sort of weird affinity to the Germans.

Des Essientes:

who hadn't been locked in a brutal struggle unto the death for one thousand years like Poles and Germans have been.

WFT?? There are plenty of instances of Germans and Poles co-operating over the years. Over the centuries, during good times and bad, and today. How long have you actually lived in Poland? Or if you don't live here, how many times have you visited? Ever?

sobieskiThreads: 82 Posts: 1,143 Joined: Jun 1, 08 ♂	Jun 9, 11, 22:13 #24
Sokrates: Even today Germans, our BB included believe themselves to be a superior species. As compared to you from the namiotist type who think all smolenkists are born saints? Actually I think Germany is a sound nation.

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Jun 10, 11, 02:08 #25

Des Essientes:

This is a Polish discussion forum and the sickening dehumanization of Poles that Germans perpetrated in WW2, as is evinced by the text of the sign Bronia was forced to wear, was not done by the Germans to the British.

No, just the systematic destruction of Dresden, as well as the kangaroo trials at Nuremburg. Nothing sickening, though. I mean, it's not like the Poles ever killed anyone just for being of a different ethnicity, either.

So - do you speak Polish? Have you ever visited? What exactly do you know about Polish-German relations?

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Jun 10, 11, 02:32 #26

delphiandomine:

No, just the systematic destruction of Dresden, as well as the kangaroo trials at Nuremburg

The former was done by British bombers to the Germans and the latter were done by the Allies to prosecute war criminals. I only claimed the Germans didn't dehumanize the British as they did the Poles as this thread shows.

delphiandomine:

I mean, it's not like the Poles ever killed anyone just for being of a different ethnicity

This thread is not about Poles murdering different ethnicities. If you wish discuss such events start a new one about them.

delphiandomine:

So - do you speak Polish?

This is the English language section of the forum.

delphiandomine:

Have you ever visited?

This thread is about events in Poland that occurred long before I was born. Have you ever gone back in time?

delphiandomine:

What exactly do you know about Polish-German relations?

I have read several books written on the subject by historians as well as numerous works of fiction that also deal with the subject, such as Gunter Grass's Danzig trilogy. I think I see your problem Delphiandomine. You resent Polish-Americans posting on this forum because we do not live in Poland as you do. I am surprized you cannot hear us laughing at your pettiness despite our geographical distance from Poland, because we Polish-Americans are laughing very loudly at you- an uptight clown that wants a medal for living in Poland.

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Jun 10, 11, 05:13 #27

sobieski:

Actually I think Germany is a sound nation.

As we can see from the above documentary - not so much. Definitely not Germany's proudest moment in history.

Why all you Brits, and one confused Dutch, have such a problem to see and discuss Germany at their lowest point? Look at this thread; you are all talking about Dresden, Anglo-Saxon roots, French prostitutes, getting petty personal with other posters, Silesia and what not, anything but the sad and tragic story of two teenagers entangled in insanity of the war.

ender:

Shocking record of penalized and humiliated love between a 16 - Polish and 19-year-old Silesian.

I watched the whole documentary and I didn't hear anything about him being Silesian. It was said that he was German. She was a forced laborer. I wonder what happened to her, I guess she was killed.

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Jun 10, 11, 06:35 #28

Bzibzioh:

insanity of the war

The point is not Germany, the point is the inhuman system. At about the same time, atrocities were committed by Soviets on all nations composing Soviet Union. Saying Soviets were "Russian" or "Ukrainian" or "Georgian" would be at least funny. Soviets were Soviets, criminal system. Nazi were Nazi, criminal system. Criminal inhuman system is not related to a specific nation.

By condemning a nation (instead of system), you Bzibzioh follow the way of thinking of Adolf.

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Jun 10, 11, 06:57 #29

Antek_Stalich:

By condemning a nation (instead of system), you Bzibzioh follow the way of thinking of Adolf.

Antek_Stalich:

Nazi were Nazi, criminal system. Criminal inhuman system is not related to a specific nation.

Nazism was not related to the German nation.... Are you nuts? The German nation elected the Nazis. What did the placard Gerhard was forced to wear say? Do you honestly believe all those gawkers watching he and Bronia being shorn and humiliated were without exception members of the Nazi party? Why do so many posters on this thread feel the need to defend the German nation's "soundness" despite having watched the original post's video? Saying that World War Two was a low point for the German nation is not Hitlerism but the condemation of Hitlerism and yes it is the deserved condemnation of the nation that embraced Hitlerism.

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Jun 10, 11, 09:35 #30

The German nation was lured by attractive nationalist/racist idea, was made to believe them shall rule the world, effectively falling in mass madness that led to all those events. In the same era, different nations of former Russian empire were lured by attractive communist idea promising them universal happiness, effectively falling in mass madness that cost lives of million people. Same in China, same in any other country where some poisonous idea lured greater part of a nation.

Bzibzioh, by condemning the German nation (instead of the poisonous Nazi idea), falls into the same mental track as Germans fell lured by Hitler. Thinking that some nation is generic bad is nothing else as promoting nationalism/racism, the curse of the 20th century. Czas wyjąć belkę z własnego oka (I do not know how this Bible text translates to English).

Not without the reasons, the message of Polish Episcopate to German Episcopate of 1966 was: "We forgive and ask for forgiveness".

I was born well after WWII. I know the stories told me by my Dad and Mum. He suffering Nazi oppression, she suffering Soviet oppression. I do not forget it, because forgetting the history is a sin -- and the greatest sin is forgetting the history to make the same mistakes again. Yet, German people never did any personal harm to me, on contrary, they helped me many times. Yet, I lost my youth in a country ruled by Soviet-driven commies and I won't forget that.

All this nationalist talk, Des Essientes, makes the whole effort of Germans to settle accounts with their own history futile. Because you or Bzibzioh have not learned a bit on the history.

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