Give back Lwow to Poland and Kaliningrad to Germany - is it possible?

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂	Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Oct 4, 10, 14:19 #151
MartAnthony: Maybe Gremany ,Poland and Cz should let Silesia come back so it can be its own once again. Problem is the population got thouroughly cleansed out and exchanged with mostly eastern Poles from what is now Ukraine. The precious mix of Germans, Poles and Bohemians is no more. The Silesia of old isn't coming back no matter what artificial acts we try to pull off...

guesswhoThreads: 23 Posts: 3,326 Joined: Mar 17, 10 ♀	Oct 4, 10, 16:03 #152
Bratwurst Boy: The Silesia of old isn't coming back no matter what artificial acts we try to pull off... You're probably right about that but then again, no one has really expected the reunification of Germany too. Things happen in life, you never know.

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂	Oct 4, 10, 16:20 #153
guesswho: You're probably right about that but then again, no one has really expected the reunification of Germany too. Things happen in life, you never know. The population in Eastern Germany was quite the same now as back before 1945 (+ some millions of refugees). The population of Silesia is not originally silesian anymore but eastern polish now.

♀

Oct 4, 10, 16:33 #154

Bratwurst Boy:

The population of Silesia is not originally silesian anymore but eastern polish now

Agree but "things can happen", you never know :-) You'll be very surprised but when I was in Danzig, some young Poles living there, expressed that they would prefer to live in a free city. They said, they don't want it to be German but they want it to be free of any influence. When I asked why, the expectation of a much better live standard was the most common answer.

♂

Oct 4, 10, 17:01 #155

guesswho:

Agree but "things can happen", you never know :-)

I think I know still ;)
Besides a forcefully ethnic cleansing there won't anything happen and THIS won't happen for sure!

Being a "free city" = higher living standard is just crap, sorry! Danzig alone on itself would not be able to survive and soon people would flee to better shores and the town would sink to third world standards within a generation.
As you said those you speak with identify as Poles, so on what base they would be able to found a free city?

I don't know what happens in some peoples brains and if there are any brain cells left!

IronsideThreads: 59 Posts: 6,786 Joined: Feb 26, 09 ♂	Oct 4, 10, 17:06 #156
Bratwurst Boy: don't know what happens in some peoples brains and if there are any brain cells left! Please do not insult Wendy !

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂	Oct 4, 10, 17:09 #157
Ironside: Please do not insult Wendy ! That was meant for people who harbor "regaining territories now with a foreign population" thoughts and likewise "a free city sounds nice"-people...! ;)

IronsideThreads: 59 Posts: 6,786 Joined: Feb 26, 09 ♂	Edited by: Ironside Oct 4, 10, 17:23 #158
Bratwurst Boy: "regaining territories now with a foreign population" Well, I think that regaining territories in due time and then having a working solution ready, as well as a way of dealing with foreign population.

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂	Oct 4, 10, 17:26 #159
Ironside: as well as a way of dealing with foreign population. How???

IronsideThreads: 59 Posts: 6,786 Joined: Feb 26, 09 ♂	Oct 4, 10, 17:30 #160
Bratwurst Boy: How??? appropriate

MEMBER ♂

Oct 4, 10, 17:30 #161

Ironside:

as well as a way of dealing with foreign population

I have a better idea. We can think of a way of dealing with people who want
to stir sh*it and change borders in our region of Europe. There is certainly fewer
of them than people of any "foreign population" that you talk about, so it will
be much easier to do. Deal with the sickf*ucks who think about changing borders
and then the overwhelming majority of population can live peacefully.

*so simple, yet brilliant :)*

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂	Oct 4, 10, 17:34 #162
Torq: so simple, yet brilliant :) The wise Torq hath spoken! :)

convexThreads: 46 Posts: 7,185 Joined: Nov 25, 09 ♂	Oct 4, 10, 17:35 #163
Torq: I have a better idea. We can think of a way of dealing with people who want to stir sh*it and change borders in our region of Europe. Just ostracize people that decide to violate the rights others.

TorqThreads: 65 Posts: 4,024 Joined: Apr 10, 09 MEMBER ♂	Oct 4, 10, 17:39 #164
convex: Just ostracize people that decide to violate the rights others. As well as those who advocate violence as a way of solving problems on international level and, indirectly, suggest things like ethnic cleansing and "regaining territories".

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Oct 4, 10, 17:46 #165

Bratwurst Boy:

Danzig alone on itself would not be able to survive and soon people would flee to better shores and the town would sink to third world standards within a generation

Actually, Danzig was doing pretty good anytime it was a free city. Of course it did OK too when it was German :-)

Bratwurst Boy:

As you said those you speak with identify as Poles, so on what base they would be able to found a free city?

What base? Actually, the answer is very simple, according to the international law, Danzig is still a free city.
http://www.danzigfreestate.org/freedanzig.html

even Poles confirm it

http://pl.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wolne_Miasto_Gda%C5%84sk&act ion=edit&section=9

♂

Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Oct 4, 10, 17:51 #166

guesswho:

Actually, Danzig was doing pretty good anytime it was a free city. Of course it did OK too when it was German :-)

It was never independent...it was an solely political artificial construct by the then League of Nations. It was still fully german and fully dependent on Germany.

guesswho:

What base? Actually, the answer is very simple, according to the international law, Danzig is still a free city.

Nah...it was made so as it was a fully german enclave in the newly founded polish republic with a german population of about 98 percent.
This town is now fully polish in Poland...there is no legal base for a free city anymore.

Officially since there hadn't been any peace treaty with Germany I still could demand the ID of the german Reich... ;)

PS: Your link is an interesting read, but they totally omit the fact that the people of Danzig now aren't the same as till '45. But that changes everything!

♂

Edited by: Ironside Oct 4, 10, 17:53 #167

Torq:

the sickf*ucks

eh?
WTF is going on here ? Why does PF allow such flith on their forum? Is this kind of childish insults considered 'free speech' or something ?
PF needs to do something about these morons. I've reported their abouse a few times but the offending posts and posters are still there.I just can't belive that PF would allow this to continue. When will they put an end to the hatred and ignorance?

Majority my ass, majority of any population do as they are told.What I must o deal with is a rival minority which claim that they speak for the nation.

@Hello Wendy!:)@

convexThreads: 46 Posts: 7,185 Joined: Nov 25, 09 ♂	Oct 4, 10, 17:58 #168
I think the majority of people want to live in peace and not have to go die or kill in order to redraw borders. People who think otherwise are pretty sick.

MEMBER ♂

Edited by: Torq Oct 4, 10, 17:59 #169

Ironside:

eh?
WTF is going on here ? Why does PF allow such flith on their forum? Is this kind of childish insults considered 'free speech' or something ?

People who advocate changing of borders in our region of Europe as well as "giving back the
lands you stole", "regaining territories", "finding a solution for foreign population" blah blah blah
yadda yadda yadda, are certainly sick*fucks and they are very rightly called so.

Majority of them are also losers, unhappy with their lives, girlfriends (or lack of them),
jobs etc. etc. and full of hidden or not-so-hidden complexes. That's when they start
talking about "taking back Lwów", "dealing with foreign population" and so on.

Sickfu*cks.

convex:

People who think otherwise are pretty sick.

That's what I'm saying.

♂ [Suspended]

Oct 4, 10, 18:04 #170

Torq:

Majority of them are also losers, unhappy with their lives, girlfriends (or lack of them), jobs etc. etc. and full of hidden or not-so-hidden complexes. That's when they start
talking about "taking back Lwów", "dealing with foreign population" and so on.

Bang on the money.

Those who have money tend to see Lwów for what it is - a place to buy up and make money, exactly the same as Germans did in Wrocław and to a lesser extent, Poznań and Gdańsk.

♀

Edited by: guesswho Oct 4, 10, 18:04 #171

Bratwurst Boy:

It was still fully german and fully dependent on Germany.

Of course it was more German then anything else, 98% of the entire population was German. Just look at the famous people from Danzig's past, no matter how far you go, nothing but Germans. I'm not trying to argue with you. It's just that it happened to be a free city few times in its history and even then it was doing great, mainly because of the connection to Germany.

Bratwurst Boy:

This town is now fully polish in Poland...there is no legal base for a free city anymore

Sorry BB, you're wrong here. According to the international law, it's still a free city. Read about it BB, don't argue in that point. You'll find confirmation for what I say even on Polish sites.

Bratwurst Boy:

But that changes everything!

Not legally though.

♂

Edited by: Ironside Oct 4, 10, 18:10 #172

Torq:

Majority of them are also losers, unhappy with their lives, girlfriends (or lack of them),
jobs etc. etc. and full of hidden or not-so-hidden complexes. That's when they start
talking about "taking back Lwów", "dealing with foreign population" and so on.

gee

Ok! I'll admit it ! I'm a iranist, fordist, culifowerist, whitebreadist, I cook my eggs,drown everything in beer and after being shot at a few times, I won't speak in public anymore, its called self preservation and its only natural remedy to not becoming a national satistic, as there is a plenty of people at large, who love humanity but hate the people !

TorqThreads: 65 Posts: 4,024 Joined: Apr 10, 09 MEMBER ♂	Oct 4, 10, 18:12 #173
Take it easy, Iron :) Nobody hates you, dude. We're just calling a spade a spade. Get yourself one of those "Europa Universalis" games and conquer all the lands you want :)

♂

Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Oct 4, 10, 18:14 #174

guesswho:

Sorry BB, you're wrong here. According to the international law, it's still a free city. Read about it BB, don't argue in that point. You'll find confirmation for what I say even on Polish sites.

I don't deny that....not all treaty's and laws of old got officially cancelled but that doesn't mean they are still legal. Look:

http://www.deutsches-reich-exil.info/
http://www.deutsches-reich-exil.info/Reichsdokumente/Reichspersonenaus weis.html

That's the exile government of the German Reich and I could even get an ID for it...fully legal...but totally useless!

When you think any "exile government" of the German Reich would have any chance of world wide recognition then you would probably have a point with a "free city" of Danzig too...but not before ;)

Ironside:

Ok! I'll admit it ! I'm a iranist, fordist, culifowerist, whitebreadist, I cook my eggs,drown everything in beer and after being shot at a few times, I won't speak in public anymore, its called self preservation and its only natural remedy to not becoming a national satistic, as there is a plenty of people at large, who love humanity but hate the people !

No moping allowed here! ;)

IronsideThreads: 59 Posts: 6,786 Joined: Feb 26, 09 ♂	Edited by: Ironside Oct 4, 10, 18:18 #175
Torq: "Europa Universalis" games and conquer all the lands you want :) I did, its not the same :( Wendy :)

guesswhoThreads: 23 Posts: 3,326 Joined: Mar 17, 10 ♀	Edited by: guesswho Oct 4, 10, 18:27 #176
Bratwurst Boy: that doesn't mean they are still legal In this case it is still legal. You see, Germany now practically replaced the Reich and so the Reich doesn't have any legal right as a country but in Danzig's case nothing like this has ever happened. It is still a free city according to the international law.

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂	Oct 4, 10, 18:36 #177
guesswho: You see, Germany now practically replaced the Reich See? You said so yourself "practically" but no legally. The German Reich is still legal because nobody saw the need to have a go at the mass of the old documents. Also Danzig is now practically Gdansk...legally or not nobody is going to change anything.

guesswhoThreads: 23 Posts: 3,326 Joined: Mar 17, 10 ♀	Oct 4, 10, 18:58 #178
Bratwurst Boy: Also Danzig is now practically Gdansk...legally or not nobody is going to change anything. It is what it is. I'm not trying to start a WW3 because of it but the legal question is still open and so is the possibility of becoming a free city again. I didn't say it will ever happen, I said it might.

IronsideThreads: 59 Posts: 6,786 Joined: Feb 26, 09 ♂	Oct 4, 10, 19:02 #179
guesswho: I said it might. dead on ! :)

♂

Oct 4, 10, 20:49 #180

Ironside:

WTF is going on here ? Why does PF allow such flith on their forum? Is this kind of childish insults considered 'free speech' or something ?
PF needs to do something about these morons. I've reported their abouse a few times but the offending posts and posters are still there.I just can't belive that PF would allow this to continue. When will they put an end to the hatred and ignorance?

A polish saying is applicable here: Diabeł w ornat się ubrał i na mszę ogonem dzwoni. The devil put on a chasuble and is ringing for the mass service with his tail.
:):):):)
The Iron Devil.

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