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Have Poles blood on their hands? :)

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espanaThreads: 26 Posts: 1,783 Joined: Feb 28, 07 Gender: Male	Edited by: espana Aug 6, 09, 17:02 / #1
poles like to think that they fight against the Germans but some poles enjoy doing barbecues. http://polandinjustice.com/

SzwedwPolsceThreads: 9 Posts: 1,623 Joined: Feb 21, 09 Gender: Male	Edited by: SzwedwPolsce Aug 6, 09, 17:25 / #2
I guess we all have if we look at specific persons and specific times in history. But it's a matter of definition, nothing else.

vetalaThreads: - Posts: 437 Joined: Jul 10, 09 Gender: Female	Edited by: vetala Aug 6, 09, 17:43 / #3
"The Jews own the buildings, and we own the streets." HAHAHA! The guy obviosly doesn't know where this saying came from! When Poland was partitioned, in the Prussian Patrition Poles were not allowed to own houses. Their property was confiscated and sold to Prussians - and Jews! They were sometimes allowed to stay in the house, but they had to pay a rent to the new owner, quite often a Jew, which naturally made them pissed. And that's how the saying was made. The man has the right to feel wronged but it's increadibly funny that he would use THAT particular saying. And while we're at it my family's property was taken by communists as well and we're Polish. So it has nothing to do with antisemitism, it's simply bad luck. Edit - I reread what i wrote and a certain realization struck me - what happened to the confiscated property of Poles after Poalnd regained independance? Were Jews dispossessed and the property went back to the rightful owners? Just how many of those Jewish houses 'stolen' by Poles were stolen FROM the Poles just 20 years earlier?

joepilsudskiThreads: 39 Posts: 1,950 Joined: Apr 27, 07 Gender: Male	Edited by: joepilsudski Aug 6, 09, 17:46 / #4
According to the blog 'Poles loaded Jews onto 'gas trucks'...I thought it was 'gas ovens'...Which is it?...Maybe Poles never loaded anybody onto anything...

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 5 Posts: 10,558 Joined: Apr 2, 07 Gender: Male	Aug 6, 09, 17:52 / #5
vetala: When Poland was partitioned, in the Prussian Patrition Poles were not allowed to own houses. Their property was confiscated and sold to Prussians - and Jews! Any links?

time meansThreads: 9 Posts: 2,111 Joined: Apr 21, 08 Gender: Male	Aug 6, 09, 17:56 / #6
joepilsudski: onto 'gas trucks'...I thought it was 'gas ovens'...Which is it?...Maybe Poles never loaded anybody onto anything... http://strangevehicles.greyfalcon.us/NAZI%20GAS%20VANS.htm

Crnogorac3Threads: - Posts: 96 Joined: Jan 21, 09 Gender: Male	Aug 6, 09, 18:09 / #7

TheOtherThreads: 3 Posts: 1,249 Joined: Jul 13, 09 Gender: Male	Aug 6, 09, 18:09 / #8
vetala: When Poland was partitioned, in the Prussian Patrition Poles were not allowed to own houses That's nonsense.

vetalaThreads: - Posts: 437 Joined: Jul 10, 09 Gender: Female	Edited by: vetala Aug 6, 09, 18:22 / #9
Bratwurst Boy: Any links? TheOther: That's nonsense. Ever heard of 'rugi pruskie'? We learn about it in schools. It started as a mass deportation and confiscation of properties of hundreds of thousands Poles (and to a lesser extent Jews with non-prussian citizenship) however with time any Pole could be dispossessed at any moment. And of course every Pole heard about Drzymała's Van - a man called Drzymała whose property was taken away cheated the Prussian law by living in a van.

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 5 Posts: 10,558 Joined: Apr 2, 07 Gender: Male	Aug 6, 09, 18:23 / #10
vetala: We learn about it in schools. Well..why that doesn't surprise me.... Still..any links to support your teaching?

joepilsudskiThreads: 39 Posts: 1,950 Joined: Apr 27, 07 Gender: Male	Edited by: joepilsudski Aug 6, 09, 18:26 / #11
time means: joepilsudski: onto 'gas trucks'...I thought it was 'gas ovens'...Which is it?...Maybe Poles never loaded anybody onto anything... http://strangevehicles.greyfalcon.us/NAZI%20GAS%20VANS.htm So it's 'gas vans'...Must have been a lot of these to have killed 6000000 Jews...Or is it 3000000?...Or what was the number?...Any Poles go into those vans or just Khazars?...Actually, the first 'gas van' was invented by a Bolshevik Jew who worked for the GPU...He took a 1930s era Ford truck, had the truck compartment sealed airtight, and then had a feed of the exhaust hose into the back, using the carbon monoxide to kill Russians and Ukrainians...Don't beleive me?...Do some research; look it up....I posted the whole story here long ago.

vetalaThreads: - Posts: 437 Joined: Jul 10, 09 Gender: Female	Aug 6, 09, 18:28 / #12
Bratwurst Boy: Still..any links to support your teaching? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drzymała's_van

TheOtherThreads: 3 Posts: 1,249 Joined: Jul 13, 09 Gender: Male	Aug 6, 09, 18:37 / #13
vetala You're talking about the Prussian settlement commision. Straight from the source you provided: "The Commission was empowered to purchase vacant property..." You see the words "purchase" and "vacant"? That Poles were not allowed to own property is not true, Vetala.

vetalaThreads: - Posts: 437 Joined: Jul 10, 09 Gender: Female	Edited by: vetala Aug 6, 09, 18:40 / #14
TheOther Please pay attention to the part which says - found that the Colonization Commission's rules forbade him as a Pole to build a permanent dwelling on his land http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prussian_deportations

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 5 Posts: 10,558 Joined: Apr 2, 07 Gender: Male	Aug 6, 09, 18:41 / #15
vetala: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drzymała's_van From your link: ...To get around the rule, he set himself up in a gypsy wagon and for more than a decade tenaciously defied in the courts all attempts to remove him. My...how brutal!

vetalaThreads: - Posts: 437 Joined: Jul 10, 09 Gender: Female	Aug 6, 09, 18:43 / #16
Bratwurst Boy: My...how brutal! No, it was not brutal and therefore perfectly ok. Poles should have all lived in vans, that's their proper place.

TheOtherThreads: 3 Posts: 1,249 Joined: Jul 13, 09 Gender: Male	Edited by: TheOther Aug 6, 09, 18:47 / #17
vetala You said "When Poland was partitioned, in the Prussian Patrition Poles were not allowed to own houses". This is simply not true. You generalize.

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 5 Posts: 10,558 Joined: Apr 2, 07 Gender: Male	Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Aug 6, 09, 18:50 / #18
Well...I'm sure some Prussians lived also in Van's (maybe not for so long though). And no...most Poles led a perfectly normal life and when they agreed to the laws could buy land and houses like everybody else. ...Prussia's Germanisation policies in the Province of Posen mostly failed. Although most of the administrative measures aimed against the Poles remained in force until 1918, between 1912 and 1914 only four Polish-owned estates were expropriated, while at the same time Polish social organizations successfully competed with German trade organizations and even started to buy land from the Germans... There existed surely worse things than that...

vetalaThreads: - Posts: 437 Joined: Jul 10, 09 Gender: Female	Edited by: vetala Aug 6, 09, 18:51 / #19
God, Theother, I would have thought you were smarter than Bratwurst 'What do Poles need houses for, anyway?' Boy. It was not just that one guy. ALL Poles were only allowed to own the land, NOT the houses. Don't you think it's unfair? BB - obviously the policy was not the same for the 123 years of partions, BUT by this time thousands of houses were taken away and never given back.

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 5 Posts: 10,558 Joined: Apr 2, 07 Gender: Male	Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Aug 6, 09, 18:53 / #20
From your other link vetala : ...More than 30,000 Poles with Austrian or Russian citizenship were deported from the Prussian part of divided Poland to the respective Austrian and Russian parts... Russians to Russia and Austrians to Austria...what's wrong with that? But it wasn't very smart either: ... The expulsion was condemned by the Polish public as well as the federal German parliament. The expulsion also contributed to the worsening of the German-Russian relations. In the aftermath, Poles without German citizenship were again allowed to work and reside in the German Empire in all seasons but the winter... PS: I still can't find any hint that Poles couldn't own their own houses...

vetalaThreads: - Posts: 437 Joined: Jul 10, 09 Gender: Female	Aug 6, 09, 18:55 / #21
Bratwurst Boy: Russians to Russia and Austrians to Austria...what's wrong with that? It's not about citizenship, it's about the houses, the f*cking houses, I'm talking about all the time. Property!

TheOtherThreads: 3 Posts: 1,249 Joined: Jul 13, 09 Gender: Male	Aug 6, 09, 18:55 / #22
vetala Don't be childish. Give me a link that clearly shows that Poles were not allowed to own the houses they were living in.

vetalaThreads: - Posts: 437 Joined: Jul 10, 09 Gender: Female	Aug 6, 09, 18:58 / #23
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanisation_of_Poles_during_Partitions# 1871_until_the_Treaty_of_Versailles This was further strengthened by the ban on building of houses by non-Germans and Nevertheless, the Settlement Commission was empowered with new more powerful rights, which entitled it to force Poles to sell the land since 1908.

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 5 Posts: 10,558 Joined: Apr 2, 07 Gender: Male	Aug 6, 09, 19:02 / #24
vetala: This was further strengthened by the ban on building of houses by non-Germans Hmm....why did you omit the rest of the sentence? ...(see Drzymała's van). Well..and as we have already seen during examining the example of D's van this was not true. This whole statement is misleading and could need a correctur.

vetalaThreads: - Posts: 437 Joined: Jul 10, 09 Gender: Female	Aug 6, 09, 19:04 / #25
So you think it was just one guy? And all other Poles had absolutely no trouble? Why was HE bothered by the court then?

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 5 Posts: 10,558 Joined: Apr 2, 07 Gender: Male	Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Aug 6, 09, 19:05 / #26
vetala: Nevertheless, the Settlement Commission was empowered with new more powerful rights, which entitled it to force Poles to sell the land since 1908. Hmmm....you mean this "Settlement Commission"? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prussian_Settlement_Commission ...The Commission in the end purchased 613 estates from German owners and 214 from Poles, functioning to bail-out German debtors as often as fulfilling its declared mission... Well....not smart but surely there was worse... vetala: Why was HE bothered by the court then? Well...reading your first post one could think Poles had been without any rights at all...no houses, chucked out just like that, no courts for them etc....

SokratesThreads: 10 Posts: 3,603 Joined: Jan 19, 09 Gender: Male [Suspended]	Aug 6, 09, 19:10 / #27
espana: poles like to think that they fight against the Germans but some poles enjoy doing barbecues. I murder Jews daily, got my private gas chamber, in go the Jews, then i stick my ass through the window, fart and listen to the screams. Bratwurst Boy: My...how brutal! Prussians werent brutal towards Poles, well not Nazi brutal anyway but still you tried to take away our lands and culture and you wonder why arent we happy little germanizer bunny.

vetalaThreads: - Posts: 437 Joined: Jul 10, 09 Gender: Female	Aug 6, 09, 19:11 / #28
BB have you read the whole section on achievements? It's not about whether 'there was worse' because obviously there was - during WWII. It's not about Prussians and their policy toward Poles it's about the fact that it was a policy toward Poles, not Poles and Jews, hence my statement in the beginning.

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 5 Posts: 10,558 Joined: Apr 2, 07 Gender: Male	Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Aug 6, 09, 19:12 / #29
Well....some have surely tried stuff...but law prevented the worst. No, Poles slugging it out with the prussian gov in a court is not brutal, don't give me the ****. 216 polish estates sold, Poles could and did buy land, they could live and work in Prussia...brutal my a'ss! ... Nevertheless the influx of candidates was always huge and in the eve of World War I the number of immigrant workers exceeded 500,000 persons, 80% of them from the Russian-possessed part of Poland. Approximately 200,000 of them worked in the eastern provinces of Prussia.... My...must life have been horrible for Poles in Prussia... I surely don't say everything was perfect or comparable with today. But Prussia was not some black dictatorship and people COULD slug it out at a court instead of just being killed or kidnapped into a labor camp...they HAD rights!

vetalaThreads: - Posts: 437 Joined: Jul 10, 09 Gender: Female	Aug 6, 09, 19:22 / #30
Bratwurst Boy: Well...reading your first post one could think Poles had been without any rights at all...no houses, chucked out just like that, no courts for them etc.... Well, perhaps I should have worded it differently, but my first post was not about Prussians, it was about the origins of the saying about Jews and Poles. I forgot that I'm speaking on PolishForums where even mentioning a nationality starts a flamewar.

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