Have Poles blood on their hands? :)

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Jan 12, 10, 16:03 #361

Harry:

kith:
So, you're saying that no Gypsies, Czechs, Poles or anyone else suffered?
I'm saying that you should go and have a look at the museums at the camps: they make it very clear who suffered.

O.k., gottcha, I really do understand where you're coming from, but are you saying that no Poles, Gypsies or Czechs or other suffered? I'm saying that 6 million Jews were brutally tortured and murdered. I'm also saying that the same happened of 7 million Christians.

What I'm trying to get at is, oh, I just don't know how to make this any clearer, . . . Do you believe that no one else suffered? That's what I'm getting at.

HarryThreads: 59 Posts: 7,994 Joined: May 2, 07 ♂	Jan 12, 10, 16:08 #362
kith: Do you believe that no one else suffered? That's what I'm getting at. What do you mean by else? People other than who?

kithThreads: 2 Posts: 89 Joined: Dec 28, 09 ♀	Jan 12, 10, 16:15 #363
Harry: kith: Do you believe that no one else suffered? That's what I'm getting at. What do you mean by else? People other than who? You know that 6 million Jews suffered, were tortured, were senselessly murdered. Did you also know that 7 million Christians suffered and were tortured and murdered?

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Jan 12, 10, 16:16 #364

Harry:

What do you mean by else? People other than who?

from what i can gather, i think he is talking about the local polish population...which is kinda dumb of course they suffered its a fricking war isnt it?
but the degree of suffering between jews and poles was different.
nobody i think in his right mind would deny thats poles didnt suffer...but i dont think that any race on this planet suffered as much as the jews

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Jan 12, 10, 16:25 #365

kith:

You know that 6 million Jews suffered, were tortured, were senselessly murdered. Did you also know that 7 million Christians suffered and were tortured and murdered?

Did you know that you are a fecking moron?

Raj_ryder:

but i dont think that any race on this planet suffered as much as the jews

The Romani people suffered a higher death rate in terms of percentage of population killed. The Nazis even managed to kill one of the Romani languages.

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Edited by: kith Jan 12, 10, 16:26 #366

Raj_ryder:

Harry:
What do you mean by else? People other than who?

from what i can gather, i think he is talking about the local polish population...which is kinda dumb of course they suffered its a fricking war isnt it?
but the degree of suffering between jews and poles was different.
nobody i think in his right mind would deny thats poles didnt suffer...but i dont think that any race on this planet suffered as much as the jews

Okay, it's just that some people don't even know that Gypsies, Poles, etc. suffered, too. This goes back to my earlier post: African Americans have told me that they suffered more than the Jews. Jews have told me that they suffered more than the AAs. It's like it's some kind of competition. I'm saying, let's not make it a competition. Let's agree that there was horrible suffering all around.

Harry:

kith:
You know that 6 million Jews suffered, were tortured, were senselessly murdered. Did you also know that 7 million Christians suffered and were tortured and murdered?
Did you know that you are a fecking moron?

Oh, come on, Harry. Don't be mean. I'm just trying to make sense of it all. Just how am I a moron? By telling the truth. I guess you really are one of the Sheeple. There's hope for you, though. I'm here for you, brother. Let me help you.

vetalaThreads: - Posts: 512 Joined: Jul 10, 09 ♀	Jan 12, 10, 16:40 #367
kith: Did you also know that 7 million Christians suffered and were tortured and murdered? Does anyone remember those 20 million Russians?

HarryThreads: 59 Posts: 7,994 Joined: May 2, 07 ♂	Jan 12, 10, 16:41 #368
kith: I'm here for you, brother. Let me help you. Yes, please do tell me all about the holocaust, I'm sure that you know so much more about it than I could possibly ever know. Idiot.

kithThreads: 2 Posts: 89 Joined: Dec 28, 09 ♀	Jan 12, 10, 16:45 #369
Harry: kith: I'm here for you, brother. Let me help you. Yes, please do tell me all about the holocaust, I'm sure that you know so much more about it than I could possibly ever know. Idiot. Harry, why am I an idiot?

Easy_TerranThreads: 4 Posts: 473 Joined: Mar 31, 08 ♂	Jan 12, 10, 16:56 #370
Harry: This one for a start. That was a joke, right?

HarryThreads: 59 Posts: 7,994 Joined: May 2, 07 ♂	Jan 12, 10, 16:57 #371
Easy_Terran: That was a joke, right? You want to claim that they were not Polish?

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Jan 12, 10, 17:04 #372

vetala:

kith:
Did you also know that 7 million Christians suffered and were tortured and murdered?
Does anyone remember those 20 million Russians?

No, apparently no one remembers the 20 million Russians who were murdered. Again, that proves my point. If you don't continuously get the truth out there, people forget about mass murders such as the 20 million Russians who were murdered. If you ask any American how many people were killed in WWII, they'll say that 6 million Jews were killed. They're right. What they don't know is that 7 million Christians were also killed and 20 million Russians. Why don't they know? It's because the Christians and Russians (also Christian) do a crappy job of getting these stories out. They don't make movies, museums, books on a grand scale and so people don't know about all of this.

Harry: Why am I an idiot? What did I say that was so wrong?

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Jan 12, 10, 17:13 #373

kith:

If you don't continuously get the truth out there, people forget about mass murders such as the 20 million Russians who were murdered.

Please try not to judge everybody else by your own idiotic standards. We are perfectly capable of remembering about those Russians without you "continuously getting the truth out there". We're even capable of remembering the 20 million Chinese you've forgotten about.

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Edited by: kith Jan 12, 10, 17:16 #374

Harry:

Please try not to judge everybody else by your own idiotic standards. We are perfectly capable of remembering about those Russians without you "continuously getting the truth out there". We're even capable of remembering the 20 million Chinese you've forgotten about.

Actually, I didn't forget about the Chinese.

Anyway, you still haven't told me why I'm an idiot. What did I say that was wrong?

Harry, Harry, Harry, I have to leave the house in three hours. I'll have the computer on until then. PLEASE tell me why I'm an idiot. What have I said that's wrong?

Easy_TerranThreads: 4 Posts: 473 Joined: Mar 31, 08 ♂	Jan 12, 10, 17:23 #375
Harry: You want to claim that they were not Polish? Oh no, god no! They were Polish as the Polish can stretch. Tell it to others, cuz the whole world knows now there were some brave Jews of Belarusan descent who fought tanks like I fight flies, they did nothing but good, they never spoke Polish etc, etc blah, blah, blah (The film opens with on-screen text stating: "A true story".)

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Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Jan 12, 10, 17:26 #376

kith:

If you don't continuously get the truth out there, people forget about mass murders such as the 20 million Russians who were murdered.

It's not about truth but that the 21th century with all it's bloodshed is becoming history soon.
Already WWI is sinking into the past with the last witness dying last year. WWII is already for most only a thing from the school books.

Tell me about the thirty years war.... see??? I gather you don't know much about it because you only heard of it in school (probably) and it bored you but this war was percentual more destructive to Europe than WWII.

It's not about uncovering some conspiracy to hide the "truth" about the mass murders in WWII, as the facts are already known...but that most people are just no longer interested.

In a recent BBC survey they found out that many british kids have no idea about Hitler or WWII....and that even as WWII and Nazi Germany is one of the most teached topics in british schools - but most kids just don't care, it's dead history to them.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1225549/Hitler-coached-Germany s-football-team-McDonalds-arches-symbolise-remembrance-day-What-todays -children.html

So....your fight to drive some truth home is a fight against wind mills!

Adolf Hitler was Germany's football team manager, according to youngsters aged nine to 15.

One in 20 thought the Holocaust was the celebration at the end of the war and one in ten said the SS was Enid Blyton's Secret Seven, not Hitler's personal bodyguards.

And one in 12 said The Blitz was a massive clean-up operation in Europe after World War Two.

TheOtherThreads: 4 Posts: 1,438 Joined: Jul 13, 09 ♂	Edited by: TheOther Jan 12, 10, 17:28 #377
kith: What they don't know is that 7 million Christians were also killed and 20 million Russians. I know that some people here on PF say they deserved it, but don't forget the approx. 8.4 million Germans, of which 2.7 million were civilians (numbers vary depending on source). They are also part of what we call history, which obviously is much more complicated than we think.

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Edited by: kith Jan 12, 10, 17:37 #378

Bratwurst Boy:

It's not about uncovering some conspiracy to hide the "truth" about the mass murders in WWII, as the facts are already known...but that most people are just no longer interested.

In a recent BBC survey they found out that many british kids have no idea about Hitler or WWII....and that even as WWII and Nazi Germany is one of the most teached topics in british schools - but most kids just don't care, it's dead history to them.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1225549/Hitler-coached-Germany s-football-team-McDonalds-arches-symbolise-remembrance-day-What-todays -children.html

So....your fight to drive some truth home is a fight against wind mills!

History IS much more complicated than we think. Of course, there were so many innocent Germans. I don't blame today's Germans or even most of the Germans of the 1940s. They were at the mercy of a mad man and his scumbag followers.

I know that history is forgotten. I'm saying that history can be kept alive such as with the case of the Holocaust Museum in Washington, D.C. You can't let people forget. I know that the argument is that history repeats itself regardless of how hard you try. Look at Darfur. But, you have to remind the people out there that terrible things happened and try to stop at least some from repeating it.

I still want Harry to tell me just why I'm an idiot. Specifically, what did I say that was wrong?

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂	Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Jan 12, 10, 17:39 #379
kith: You can't let people forget. People will forget as it is natural...don't tell me you know all about the last 2000 years of human history world wide, or even european history! That's more a passion of dedicated historians but not for the common people as they have their current lives to worry about. But even remembering it has never stopped another evil!

kithThreads: 2 Posts: 89 Joined: Dec 28, 09 ♀	Jan 12, 10, 17:41 #380
Bratwurst Boy: People will forget as it is natural...don't tell me you know all about the last 2000 years of human history world wide! But even remembering it has never stopped another evil! I know, and doesn't that suck?!

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂	Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Jan 12, 10, 17:43 #381
kith: I know, and doesn't that suck?! I think it's natural...and actually I think that sometimes forgetting (or at least not talking it to death) is often better for relationships as it helps to overcome old grudges. In some places people argue and are ready to fight again over things 1000 years old...so much for remembering!

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Jan 12, 10, 17:49 #382

Bratwurst Boy:

I think it's natural...and actually I think that sometimes forgetting (or at least not talking it to death) is often better for relationships as it helps to overcome old grudges.

In some places people argue and are ready to fight again over things 1000 years old...so much for remembering!

I think you're right, especially when you're talking to Sheeple like Harry. What I'm doing here is trying to overcome the destruction that the Sheeple have done to nice guys like Harry.

Harry, why am I an idiot? I honestly don't see that I've said anything wrong. Go back and read my posts again. I don't think I've said anything wrong.

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Jan 12, 10, 17:54 #383

We Jews don't say that only Jews were killed or suffered the most in the war. Millions of people suffered. What was different about what happened to the Jews, what we refer to as the holocaust, is that they weren't killed in the war. What do I mean by that? I mean that the German program to exterminate the Jews was not part of the war – if anything it was hampered by the war. Had there been no war after the invasion of Poland, they would have killed every last Jew they got there hands on. The Germans started the program way before the war started, with severe persecution in the 1930s, and eventually declared the program's goal to be the extermination of ALL the Jews. Not just communists, not just the bankers, not just religious Jews, but every single Jew. The people who were gassed at treblinka were not war casualties, they were victims of a systematic program of extermination that was designed specifically for Jews and Roma and not any other ethnic group that I'm aware of.

The millions of Poles and Russians and others all over the world that were killed in the war were mostly casualties of a war that didn't distinguish between combatants and civilians. Some of them were murdered in camps for political affiliation or for opposing the regime – in other words, for their actions, not for the "crime" of being born. It was a human tragedy that they were killed, but it's a whole different event than what happened to the Jews. That's why we get frustrated and defensive when these arguments are brought up.

HarryThreads: 59 Posts: 7,994 Joined: May 2, 07 ♂	Jan 12, 10, 17:58 #384
kith: I think you're right, especially when you're talking to Sheeple like Harry. You're an idiot because you know close to bugger all about the holocaust but you're trying to teach me about it! I've been to all the major camps, I've visited the museums, read the sources, taken the walks, seen the graveyards. You've done none of that.

TheOtherThreads: 4 Posts: 1,438 Joined: Jul 13, 09 ♂	Edited by: TheOther Jan 12, 10, 17:58 #385
yehudi: program to exterminate the Jews was not part of the war You have a point here, although I believe that the mass murder in the concentration camps wouldn't have been possible without the war.

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Jan 12, 10, 17:59 #386

Oh, thank God you showed up, Yehudi. I can make sense of your posts and you do have the ability to educate. Thanks.

Don't forget: Hitler said, "We shall exterminate every Polish speaking person. After all, who today remembers the mass murder of the Armenians?"

That's not the exact quote. Give me a couple of minutes and get the exact quote, but anyway, I know what you're saying. The killing of Jews went on before the war. It actually partly led to war. Also, Hitler had it out for Poles Gypsies and so on.

HarryThreads: 59 Posts: 7,994 Joined: May 2, 07 ♂	Jan 12, 10, 18:01 #387
yehudi: a systematic program of extermination that was designed specifically for Jews and Roma and not any other ethnic group that I'm aware of. You forgot about the Sinti and Manush.

Easy_TerranThreads: 4 Posts: 473 Joined: Mar 31, 08 ♂	Jan 12, 10, 18:06 #388
yehudi: We Jews don't say that only Jews were killed or suffered the most in the war. But you Jews totally hijacked the history of WWII. WWII is associated with the Holokaust only. Period. Will you deny?

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Edited by: kith Jan 12, 10, 18:08 #389

I found the quote:

"I have given orders to my Death Units to exterminate without mercy or pity, men, women, and children belonging to the Polish speaking race. It is only in this manner we can acquire the vital territory which we need. After all, who remembers the extermination of the Armenians?" - Adolf Hitler, 22 August 1939

Harry: I'm not trying to educate you. I just asking you questions. Then, you call me an idiot. That's not fair and it's wrong. It's not idiotic to discuss topics that I've brought up.

As for hijacking WWII history, I have to admit that I knew very little of the WWII history of the Pacific. WWII European Theater is very thoroughly studied in the US. The Pacific Theater is barely touched upon. Why? I'm not saying that this is true in other countries, but it's true here. Why?

TheOtherThreads: 4 Posts: 1,438 Joined: Jul 13, 09 ♂	Jan 12, 10, 18:13 #390
kith: 22 August 1939 Before the start of WW2???? Do you have a link?

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