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Have Poles blood on their hands? :)


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Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11
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 Jan 12, 10, 18:14    #391
kith:
"I have given orders to my Death Units to exterminate without mercy or pity, men, women, and children belonging to the Polish speaking race. It is only in this manner we can acquire the vital territory which we need. After all, who remembers the extermination of the Armenians?" - Adolf Hitler, 22 August 1939

Do you have a source for this quote actually?
I only find this saying but not the original source....


kithThreads: 2
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 Jan 12, 10, 18:18    #392
be right back. Let me find the link.

convexThreads: 47
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 Jan 12, 10, 18:22    #393
Bratwurst Boy:
Do you have a source for this quote actually?
I only find this saying but not the original source....

Here you go

kithThreads: 2
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 Jan 12, 10, 18:29    #394
Thanks, my computer's crashing on me. I can't even open that link you put up. Anyway, Harry, please, I'm not "trying to educate" you. I just want to discuss this. What's wrong with saying that Christians died in WWII? Why does that upset you?

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11
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Edited by: Bratwurst Boy  Jan 12, 10, 18:33    #395
kith:
Thanks, my computer's crashing on me. I can't even open that link you put up.


Here the same...

convex:
Here you go


Wiki doesn't like me today...:(

TheOtherThreads: 4
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 Jan 12, 10, 18:33    #396
The quote doesn't seem to be backed up properly. If I understood the Wikimedia source correctly, it was taken out of a dubious 'L-3' document which wasn't even presented at the Nuremberg trials. BB, can you shed some light on this?

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11
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Edited by: Bratwurst Boy  Jan 12, 10, 18:35    #397
TheOther:
BB, can you shed some light on this?

I'm wondering myself because it's a rather famous quote but when I google it I find only the repititions of this saying but no real source...

Somehow wikipedia is awfully slow for Europeans right now...It keeps crashing

TheOtherThreads: 4
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 Jan 12, 10, 18:39    #398
Here's the description for the document's source:




vetalaThreads: -
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Edited by: vetala  Jan 12, 10, 18:40    #399
It obvious that the Polish experience was different from the Jewish and Gypsy experience, but it's wrong to say that Poles were just 'war casualties' the same way the British or the French or the Americans were. They were killed in different ways and for different reasons. We could argue about the term 'Holocaust' but this has to be remembered.

Here's something from Hans Frank. It shows that Nazis themselves weren't sure what to do with Poles:
You know that within the Party the line which is generally adopted is that our Polish policy consists of the deportation of the Poles, their destruction, or their treatment as a mere source of labor. You are also aware that the policy has been largely put into practice. Now, however, things are becoming tremendously complicated in this sphere. The problem arises above all from the fact that the Reich is being forced to transfer large sections of industry from the areas threatened by air attack to the General Government. On the other hand, there is a necessity to ensure the supply of local labor for the plants which are already in the General Government at all costs, to maintain the transport system and the whole administrative apparatus, and to ensure the harvest etc....

It would be desirable if the Reich ministries, the Party agencies, and the territorial authorities could finally decide on a course of action. It simply will not do for some people to say all Poles of whatever sort will be exterminated, and for others to say all Poles of whatever kind, if they are fit for work, must be put to work. There is a complete contradiction here....

Should we exterminate or build things up, should the work be created here or in the Reich, should we give up workers or keep them here, should we let the Poles starve or should we feed them?



Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11
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Edited by: Bratwurst Boy  Jan 12, 10, 18:46    #400
TheOther:
Here's the description for the document's source:

Thank you!

Hmmm...the Brits say it's a record of one of Hitlers speeches...and this saying it's an english translation...I wonder....it seems it's from second or third degree hear say...would like to see this L-3 document!

Update: Found it!
http://www.cwporter.com/gl3.htm

Very interesting!

kithThreads: 2
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 Jan 12, 10, 18:52    #401
vetala:
Should we exterminate or build things up, should the work be created here or in the Reich, should we give up workers or keep them here, should we let the Poles starve or should we feed them?

So, they considered exterminating them. They did exterminate some, many. That's what I've been trying to say.

Harry, do you agree with me? I'm just trying to talk about what happened. Please don't be so angry.

TheOtherThreads: 4
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 Jan 12, 10, 18:56    #402
Bratwurst Boy:
Update: Found it!

That's all very vague. Quotes:

"The documents used in evidence at Nuremberg consisted largely of "photocopies" of "copies". Many of these original documents were written entirely on plain paper without handwritten markings of any kind, by unknown persons."

"The document appears to have been prepared on the same typewriter as many other Nuremberg documents"

kithThreads: 2
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Edited by: kith  Jan 12, 10, 18:56    #403
Bratwurst Boy:
Update: Found it!

http://www.cwporter.com/gl3.htm

You found it! If you go to the very bottom of the page, you can click on a link that translates it.

TheOther: You're starting to sound like one of those Neo-Nazi Holocaust denials.

TheOtherThreads: 4
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Edited by: TheOther  Jan 12, 10, 19:03    #404
kith:
You're starting to sound like one of those Neo-Nazi Holocaust denials

You want to insult me? I was just quoting the remarks on the web site that BB posted. Besides: you are talking about questioning history here all the time, so why not question the accuracy of the allied version of history as well? Like "The USA liberated Europe" for example... ;)

kithThreads: 2
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 Jan 12, 10, 19:11    #405
TheOther:
You want to insult me? I was just quoting the remarks on the web site that BB posted. You are talking about questioning history here all the time, so why not question the accuracy of the allied version of history as well? Like "The USA liberated Europe" for example... ;)

Oh, Gosh, TheOther, I was just remarking that that's what it seemed like. Anyway, the ALLIES helped to liberate Europe (and let's not forget about Asia). They all worked together.

You know, someone sent me an email recently about the American war cemeteries overseas. I'll try to find that. I'm running out of computer time for today, so I may have to post it tomorrow. It was a very moving group of photographs about the thousands upons thousands of dead US service men of WWII. Very touching.

Still waiting to hear something from Harry.

IronsideThreads: 56
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 Jan 12, 10, 19:14    #406
kith:
Still waiting to hear something from Harry.

don't waste your time on him ...all you gonna hear from Harry is neatly presented bs.

TheOtherThreads: 4
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Edited by: TheOther  Jan 12, 10, 19:16    #407
kith:
I was just remarking that that's what it seemed like

No worries.

kithThreads: 2
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 Jan 12, 10, 19:18    #408
Ironside:
don't waste your time on him ...all you gonna hear from Harry is neatly presented bs.

Well, THAT sucks. I hate to think of a person as a lost cause, but I know that you just can't reach some people. You really, really try. You truly want to help a person break away from the Sheeple, but they just want to go through life with blindfolds on. It's sad. I'm gonna keep trying, though. I think there might be a drop of hope for him. I really hope so.

Easy_TerranThreads: 4
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 Jan 12, 10, 19:19    #409
Easy_Terran:

Harry:
You want to claim that they were not Polish?

E_T
Oh no, god no!

So Har,

when will you start educating other peeps that the Bielskis were Polish?

Polish filth who betrayed the Poles and Poland.
Polish filth who has been betraying the Poles ever since - vide baby Aaron.

?

1jolaThreads: 33
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Edited by: 1jola  Jan 12, 10, 19:28    #410
It seems that you guys tried to quote the famous Armenian Quote. It has been called the Armenian quote but it should be called the Polish quote. It is contested because the Turks and the Armenians disagree:

Hitler speaking:

Our strength is our quickness and our brutality. Genghis Khan had millions of women and children hunted down and killed, deliberately and with a gay heart. History sees in him only the great founder of States. What the weak Western European civilization alleges about me, does not matter. I have given the order—and will have everyone shot who utters but one word of criticism—that the aim of {translator: this} war does not consist in reaching certain {translator: geographical} lines, but in the enemies' physical elimination. Thus, for the time being only in the east, I put ready my Death's Head units, with the order to kill without pity or mercy all men, women, and children of the Polish race or language. Only thus will we gain the living space that we need. Who still talks nowadays of the extermination of the Armenians?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_quote

kithThreads: 2
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 Jan 12, 10, 19:32    #411
1jola:
It seems that you guys tried to quote the famous Armenian Quote. It has been called the Armenian quote but it should be called the Polish quote. It is contested because the Turks and the Armenians disagree:

Yeah, but Turkey was allied with Germany, Italy and Japan. Just as there are Neo-Nazis who deny the Holocaust, there are Turks who deny the genocide. The Japanese don't admit their role in WWII, either.

yehudiThreads: 1
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 Jan 12, 10, 19:33    #412
vetala:
it's wrong to say that Poles were just 'war casualties' the same way the British or the French or the Americans were.

Of course it was much harder for Poles and Russians than for Americans or British because that's where the fighting was. And the german occupation was far more brutal to Poles than to the french. (And unlike France, Poland didn't have a collaborationist government). But my point is to explain that the Jews were not war casualties, but murder victims. And that's why Jews jump whenever we're told that not only Jews were killed.
Easy_Terran:
But you Jews totally hijacked the history of WWII. WWII is associated with the Holokaust only.
Period.

It shouldn't be. That's an impression I'm trying to correct here. WWII was one catastrophe and the holocaust was another. The effects they had on each other are many and complex.

time meansThreads: 9
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 Jan 12, 10, 19:36    #413
yehudi:
or British because that's where the fighting was.

So being bombed doesn't count?

kithThreads: 2
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 Jan 12, 10, 19:42    #414
yehudi:
But my point is to explain that the Jews were not war casualties, but murder victims. And that's why Jews jump whenever we're told that not only Jews were killed.

See, that's where I have to disagree. I mean, murder is murder. The Nazis didn't like Poles. They wanted to exterminate them. The Nazis most certainly wanted to exterminate all Jews. They did exterminate a whole lot. But, they exterminated others. I guess I just object to you setting up classifications . . . if that makes sense. Death is death. I dont' think that you should "jump" whenever you're told that not only Jews were killed. Lots of people were slaughtered. Why classify and then imply one was worse than another? Does that make sense? I mean, a murder of a Jewish person is unacceptable, but not more so than the murder of a Gypsy.

Thanks for keeping this civil. I'm still holding out hope for Harry. Gotta jump in the shower, then I have to leave in about a half hour. I've enjoyed talking to you all (except Harry, but he'll come around. I'm sending him Reiki love. That's not a joke, not sarcasm. I really am doing that).

1jolaThreads: 33
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Edited by: 1jola  Jan 12, 10, 19:49    #415
yehudi:
And that's why Jews jump whenever we're told that not only Jews were killed.

Oh. please, Yehudi, in Poland we know very well that Jews were murdered en masse. Anyone can verify that by talking to the old folks. Poles were killed also. I'm not sure what the contention would be. But yes, Jewish Poles were targeted for extermination after 1942 where Poles were not.

BTW, I'm going to Luxor this year, and I will not be taking in the mud I was hoping for. Perhaps next year in Jerusalem! Would you meet me and my wife?

time meansThreads: 9
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 Jan 12, 10, 19:52    #416
kith:
I'm sending him Reiki love

Lmao, i am sure he will be thrilled.

jonniThreads: 26
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Edited by: jonni  Jan 12, 10, 20:10    #417
The problem with this thread is the title. Have Poles (in general) got blood on their hands? No, no nation has. Have some Poles done dirty deeds? Of course, this isn't in doubt. No single nationality of any size is made up 100% of angels.

1jolaThreads: 33
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Edited by: 1jola  Jan 12, 10, 20:21    #418
Jonni,
I have tried to tell the mods to discourage thread tittles like this one. They are too tolerant. On one hand, we can talk about what we want, then on the other, the site looks foolish.

The mods should be aware of flaming thread tittles.

jonniThreads: 26
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Edited by: jonni  Jan 12, 10, 20:25    #419
1jola:
I have tried to tell the mods to discourage thread tittles like this one

I agree. It doesn't do justice to this forum. Or move intelligent discussion about Poland forward.

1jolaThreads: 33
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 Jan 12, 10, 20:31    #420
Intelligent discussionn is always an option.


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