Have Poles blood on their hands? :)

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Aug 7, 09, 14:49 #61

Harry - To tell you the truth I have no idea what was the conflict about, I just did a little wiki-fu. You said Poland was supporting the Central Powers and I was refering to that. You made it sound as if Poland was satisfied with the treaty.

adibjaber - can an allergic person donate blood? Or organs for that matter? Because I was hoping I could give my organs after my death, so I won't wake up inside the coffin or something.

adibjaberThreads: - Posts: 18 Joined: Aug 6, 09 ♂	Edited by: adibjaber Aug 7, 09, 16:42 #62
no please no blood of elergy vetala: vetala you are polishwoman?

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Edited by: joepilsudski Aug 7, 09, 16:58 #63

polishcanuck:

Jews also liked doing BBQs! Unfortunately there were some participants in the holocaust in all parts of german occupied europe, even jews themselves!

Here is a book Pole-bashers should read. It's written by a Jew who talks about how the Jews re-started the concentration camps after poland's 'liberation' by the russians.

Quite a good book, 'Eye For an Eye'...Yes, Khazar Jews love Bar-B-Q, 'Kosher-style'...Ask the Palestinians...They also like the 'slow roast' method of cooking...Ask the Ukrainians about Holodomor...They also like to 'sneak a little snack'...Ask Poles....They also enjoy 'eat all you can buffet'...Ask Americans.

polishcanuckThreads: 10 Posts: 583 Joined: Feb 11, 07 ♂	Aug 7, 09, 22:54 #64
Harry: I just love the way that Poles whine about not being allowed to build houses in foreign countries a hundred years ago but today won't let foreigners even buy land unless they get a permit (which at least one of the ministries involved often refuses to issue). Can you provide a link to this rule/law that forbids foreigners from buying land in PL?

BabinichThreads: 1 Posts: 1,049 Joined: May 26, 08 ♂	Aug 8, 09, 02:56 #65
Harry: Babinich is claiming that the Ukrainians betrayed Poland by signing a seperate peace treaty No I am not.

BabinichThreads: 1 Posts: 1,049 Joined: May 26, 08 ♂	Aug 8, 09, 03:23 #66
Harry: Er, Poland was on the same side as the Central Powers. Er, no... Pilsudski was jailed by the Germans because of his opposition to the 'polnische wehrmacht'.

enderThreads: 13 Posts: 528 Joined: Nov 7, 09 ♂	Edited by: ender Dec 27, 09, 12:28 #67
Aj waj Just because 40 Jews has been killed in Jedwabne you making big fus. Did you know IPN has been asked by Jews to stop investigation? [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jedwabne_pogrom][/url]

BrutalButcherThreads: 1 Posts: 623 Joined: Nov 10, 09 ♂	Dec 27, 09, 12:50 #68
Funny to see a Spaniard, native to one of the most racist countries on the earth, judging the poles for killing other people out of intolerance. Remember the Inquisition? The killings of Jews and Muslims in Spain? The genocide in the Americas ? You spaniards have no right to criticize, Arab inbreds.

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Edited by: ob1 Dec 27, 09, 12:54 #69

Bratwurst:
There is no such thing as fact. Only what is said by the victors and those with power. I can make up my own facts. Get a bunch of thugs or propaganda to beat it into history. Then it becomes facts/history after a hundred years or so of book buring/etc. This is fact: Cain killed Abel. We are all sons of Cain. Fact: nobody ever owns anything. We are only caretakers of the planet for 3 score and 10. The Earth is dying because of the manner in which the sons of Cain are taking care of it. What's right? What's wrong? The cosmic consciousness tells us this. We don't need any preacher/law to tell us this. You want truth: look to mathematics. Otherwise, you deal with lies/corruption. Stop trying to muddy the waters by saying this one or that one has less blood on his hands! All sons of Cain have blood on their hands. We all have blood lust, which we have to control. If we keep this up we'll go back to cave man thinking where there is no right, but might. Cut the bull. If you live on this planet you have a right to live on it. We should eliminate all property rights, all national borders. We are all citizens of this world. National borders and property ownership are used to control the work force. Want true globalization or just globalization for business?

espanaThreads: 39 Posts: 2,200 Joined: Feb 28, 07 ♂	Dec 27, 09, 14:24 #70
BrutalButcher: Funny to see a Spaniard, native to one of the most racist countries on the earth, judging the poles for killing other people out of intolerance. Remember the Inquisition? The killings of Jews and Muslims in Spain? The genocide in the Americas ? You spaniards have no right to criticize, Arab inbreds. we dont hide or lie about anything and we are proud of what we are .

Wroclaw BoyThreads: 56 Posts: 5,264 Joined: Jul 3, 09 MEMBER ♂	Dec 27, 09, 14:35 #71
polishcanuck: Can you provide a link to this rule/law that forbids foreigners from buying land in PL? nah, i dont really have time but it is true.

z_dariusThreads: 22 Posts: 5,091 Joined: Oct 18, 07 ♂	Dec 27, 09, 16:20 #72
espana: poles like to think that they fight against the Germans but some poles enjoy doing barbecues. I wonder if those would be the Jews whose descendants survived because they escaped Spanish massacres of Jews, or those who were expelled from Spain?

espanaThreads: 39 Posts: 2,200 Joined: Feb 28, 07 ♂	Dec 27, 09, 16:22 #73
z_darius again , spain didnt hide or lie about the past.

BrutalButcherThreads: 1 Posts: 623 Joined: Nov 10, 09 ♂	Dec 27, 09, 16:25 #74
espana: again , spain didnt hide or lie about the past. Nor has Germany. THe difference is that Spain is proud of her genocides, racism and persecutions. Germany isn´t. Spaniards keep on being intolerant of the same people they treated like sh*t. Germans are not doing that. It must be because Germans are truly European: Civilized. You are just Arabs.

z_dariusThreads: 22 Posts: 5,091 Joined: Oct 18, 07 ♂	Dec 27, 09, 16:30 #75
espana Well, BBoy's answer is great. Treat it as mine the next time you mourn those you kicked out of your Jew loving Spain.

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Edited by: ob1 Dec 27, 09, 20:06 #76

We should be judged as individuals for what we do, under the circumstances we do them. We should not be judged by the actions of the wealthy who control our countries. These wealthy have no nation. No religion. Indeed, they inter-marry for wealth, power and send us to war for them.
Don't get hung up on facts! 10,000 people with machine guns to their head will say and do anything they're told to do, include produce 'facts'. This has been demonstrated throughout history. Need we be taught this lesson each and every generation!
Don't get distracted by what is called 'fact' in the history books. Don't look for truth; you'll never find it.

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Dec 27, 09, 20:35 #77

espana
yes we have blood on our hands
german blood (yummy), ukrainian, russian, turk, spanish, french,austrian, italian probably all europinian nations, some less some more. jew undaubtly. so what? but as a nation we can be blamed for Kielce when pissed polish soldiers (jews has been shooting to them- jew as national security have been allowed to carry guns) throw jews from 1st floor on soldiers bayonets. I hope you know this detail.
and some others details 4 pogroms in Budapest, few other in other polish cities few other in some other 'socialist republic' in eastern europe all at the same time. I wonder how many of them were in western countries same time?

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Dec 28, 09, 03:35 #78

Harry:

I just love the way that Poles whine about not being allowed to build houses in foreign countries a hundred years ago

Never heard about it.
Who is whining about it and what foreign lands were those?

In case you're tempted to quote one of the posts above - Poles in Greater Poland aka the Grand Duchy of Posen at the time did not go abroad to buy land or build a house. They had been there for generations and the area was annexed by Prussians. Thus, Poles living there were Prussian subject/citizens. In fact that's the area where the first capital of Poland is located. Comparing the scenario to whine about difficulties land hungry foreigners face in Poland today is far fetched, to say the least. Nobody forces foreigners to come to Poland. Poles in Grand Duchy of Posen were forcibly found themselves under Prussian rule.

Harry:

today won't let foreigners even buy land unless they get a permit (which at least one of the ministries involved often refuses to issue).

So what's wrong with that?
You apply and wait for the decision. If you don't like the decision but insist owning land in a foreign country you move to one where they let you buy land. What could be simpler?

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Dec 28, 09, 10:26 #79

vetala:

what happened to the confiscated property of Poles after Poalnd regained independance? Were Jews dispossessed and the property went back to the rightful owners? Just how many of those Jewish houses 'stolen' by Poles were stolen FROM the Poles just 20 years earlier?

Couldn't be too many because, as you know, the vast majority of Jews in Poland did not live in the Prussian areas but in the Russian and Austrian areas. Your point about Poles being denied ownership of houses by the Prussians might be true, I have no idea. But to suggest, based on a situation in pre-WW1 Prussia, that Jews in central and eastern poland really didn't lose legitimate property in the holocaust is a ridiculous argument. I wouldn't have expected a comment like that from you.

ob1Threads: 1 Posts: 20 Joined: Dec 24, 09 ♂	Dec 28, 09, 10:39 #80
Don't let him fool you. Bratwurst Boy is really a Polish prince trying to arouse Polish pride!

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Dec 28, 09, 14:30 #81

yehudi:

But to suggest, based on a situation in pre-WW1 Prussia, that Jews in central and eastern poland really didn't lose legitimate property in the holocaust is a ridiculous argument.

Ah, I didn't mean Jews from Central and Eastern Poland. And it's not like I suggested that it was the Jews who dispossessed Poles. Rather the opposite, really, if someone buys a house with their own money then obviously it's theirs, nothing evil or sinister about it. I was just poking fun at the guy who uses a proverb that was born out of resentment for a percieved injustice to battle the exactly same kind of injustice.

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Dec 28, 09, 14:59 #82

My question to the Op is who cares at this point in time?
What can really be done about it?
Is there a deeper issue you're trying to get at?

I don't understand these attempts at blaming people alive and well today for what their ancestors did in the past, to me it's the attempt at reasoning a small child might make.

Some Poles like to blame Germans and Russians for what happened in the past but the fact of the matter is that there isn't a bloody thing anyone can do about the past- similarly dumb as the OP's question.

Trying to make others feel guilty for things they neither participated in nor condoned is a one of the most misdirected attempts people try when they attempt to "come to terms" with the past.

But maybe I've missed something here, I just clicked on the first page.

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Dec 29, 09, 11:20 #83

vetala

vetala:

I was just poking fun at the guy who uses a proverb that was born out of resentment for a percieved injustice to battle the exactly same kind of injustice.

I see. I didn't see the original quote on that website till now. But after reading what he wrote, what's the most horrible thing is not that people moved into his house (let's assume they thought the owners were dead), but that jews returning to their town were murdered by their former neighbors. And it's known that this happened in quite a few places. Is it any wonder that Jews who left Poland after the war are bitter about their former neighbors?

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Dec 29, 09, 12:02 #84

yehudi:

jews returning to their town were murdered by their former neighbors. And it's known that this happened in quite a few places.

As much as it is incomprehensible to me and utterly terrifying, I'm afraid that such
events did, in fact, take place after the war (although they weren't as common as
some biased historians would have us believe).

I'm quite sure that 95% of so called "anti-semitism" in Poland is simply fear
of those who stole Jewish property or even claimed it after the war out of
necessity without any malice or bad will. They fear that the rightful owners
might come back one day and ask for what's theirs.

The right to one's property is a mainstay of western civilization and should
never be undermined or denied to anyone. The rightful owners or their lawful
descendants should get all their property back.

Of course, by that, I mean individual people, who can prove the right to a given
property and not some chutzpah organisations, operated by a bunch of con-men
who have nothing to do with rightful owners of Jewish property in Poland (apart
from, maybe, their nationality).

SashaThreads: 2 Posts: 1,558 Joined: Apr 19, 08 ♂	Edited by: Sasha Dec 29, 09, 12:07 #85
"All nations have blood on their hands" Captain Obvious

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Edited by: Barney Dec 29, 09, 12:11 #86

I thought this article was excellent.

For here is a deeper truth: this is what human beings are capable of when they find themselves in the wrong place at the wrong time. (And to be a small town in eastern Poland occupied first by the Soviets, then by the Nazis, then by a Soviet-imposed Polish communist regime, is almost a definition of wrong place, wrong time.) Anyone born in a luckier place and time must say: there, but for the grace of geography, go I.

The Guardian

IronsideThreads: 56 Posts: 6,196 Joined: Feb 26, 09 ♂	Dec 29, 09, 13:44 #87
what do you mean by that ?

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Dec 29, 09, 13:55 #88

yehudi
Such incidents did take place and it's very saddening but I don't like the way this subject is usually brought up. People usually make it sound as if postwar murders were a rule, not an exception, carried out by the whole Polish population, not just a handful of degenerates, with the blessing from the rest of the population (maybe even handing out rewards for every Jewish head) and of course limited only to Poland and to Jews.

vetalaThreads: - Posts: 512 Joined: Jul 10, 09 ♀	Dec 29, 09, 14:17 #89
Barney I agree. The author of this article is spot-on.

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Dec 29, 09, 14:28 #90

Ironside:

what do you mean by that ?

Read the article.
The author sets out and defeats the commonly held view that Polish people are anti-Semitic by default, he also attempts to explain what many see as a defensive attitude of Polish people with particular reference to Jews.

I chose the quote because the thread asks if there is blood on Polish hands and it agreed with the poster above who quoted "Captain Obvious".

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