Jaruzelski asked Soviets for assistance

Historian Antoni Dudek has published in the institute’s bulletin a record of conversations between Jaruzelski and Soviet Marshall Viktor Kulikov. The documents are unequivocal proof of the Polish general’s intentions three days ahead of the imposition of martial law.



Dudek told Polish Radio "Jaruzelski said: "if Solidarity will confine its actions to strikes, then we will manage it, yet we may not rule out that they will take to the streets." He went on to give a specific example of Upper Silesia to show Kulikov the scale of the problem. Jaruzelski said "there are 4 million people living in the region and should the 4 million hold protests, I will not cope there with just one squadron stationed there and could I then count on your military assistance?"

But Mr Walesa said the general could well face treason charges for calling for foreign intervention on Polish soil: "When you see what is written, it could well be that the general betrayed Poland."

Until now, without documents proving it, people have been lead to believe that martial law was implemented to prevent a Soviet invasion.

Having said all this, I think it's ridiculous for a taxpayer-sponsored witchhunt (the IPN) to embark on these crusades against certain individuals that are enemies of PiS - shouldn't these things be impartial and free of political interference? Walesa, uncharacteristically, seems to pointing this out in an unhysterical way.

Meanwhile, the documents show that Russia had not planned any military intervention for fear of a reaction from the West.

Actually, we're talking about Martial Law in 1981.

Meanwhile, the documents show that Russia had not planned any military intervention for fear of a reaction from the West.

I still hold the unpopular view that the General got most things right (but still did wrong).

History will not be kind to Jaruzelski, even though he does deserve a great deal of credit for successfully managing the transistion to democracy without the problems seen elsewhere

There was told that in the beginning of 80, those trains waited only for the autorization from Moscow to cross the Polish border.

He was a traitor from the begining, a Soviet operative, working against the interests of Poland.
Soviet history may be kind to him as he was a Soviet patriot, but in the view of us Poles, he was a traitor of the worse kind.

That's one view. Another is that he was a realist who look a practical view of Poland's postwar situation and did what he thought was best for Poland.

What do you know of and/or think about Operation Krkonose that the Czechs talk about?

Killing Polish soldiers after the war was best for Poland? Imposing Soviet rule was best for Poland?

Never heard about it.

Another is that he was a realist who look a practical view of Poland's postwar situation and did what he thought was best for Poland.

Well this can’t be your view. In your previous posts you have taken the position of condemning Polish role in Czechoslovakia 1968. Serving his Moscow’s master he really did what he thought was best for Poland, a practical view to enhance his career. He led the Polish military participation in that invasion and here you are defending him as polish patriot.

should be putting him on trial

I'm glad you see it my way, trial it is.

Nuremberg has proven that "I was only following orders" is not a valid defence

For his actions in Poland I think not

There’s no crime that is grater than the one committed against your own people. So we have the dibs for his trial. There’s only one sentence for a traitor murdering civilians on behalf of his puppet masters in Moscow, which btw can never be viewed as for the greater good or be neither excused nor forgiven.

In 1981, Jaruzelski asked the Soviets for help because he thought he might not be able to manage the situation. There were fourteen other lakeys who would have been happy to take care of the problem, but after Jaruzelski impossed martial law, he was the dictator in charge.

Solidarity couldn't be trusted to cooperate - indeed, they wouldn't cooperate with the brutal economic programme that was needed.

What else could the Polish communists do at the time?

Nonsense. What was needed was that they stop shipping most of our grain, meat, manufactured goods, and natural resources to the Soviet Union. The communists weren't willing to do that.

Since we know now that the Soviets had no intentions to invade in 1981, the communists could have reached an agreement with Solidarność, which was a peaceful movement.

Ten years later they made such an agreement to share power. Solidarnosc was still a peaceful movement. The deterioriation of the economic situation was on-going with the idiotic policies the communists devised. They were the cause of a bad situation.

let's not forget, a Soviet Union that was unpredictable, ran by a Kremlin full of spoiled old men completely out of touch with reality.

I don't think it was an option to simply say "no".

Peaceful in what sense? Their strikes were paralysing the country, and their leaders wanted more than the Communists could offer.

POLAND: SOLIDARITY TO PRESENT DEMANDS
Created: 4/14/1981
OCR scan of the original document, errors are possible
solidarity has prepared en ambitious list of demands that will be difficult for the government to meet even halfway. aside from the familiar issuesarmers' union and punishment of those responsible for the incident at bydgoszcz, the union wants:

in judicial statutes to give thea degree of independence.

of the penal code to limit the role of the police.

--regular union television and radio programs

a degree of autonomy in producing them.

speaking on national television yesterday. leader walesa indicated there is room for compro-raise in the union's position. be also virtually dismissed prime hiniater jaruzelski's proposed strike ban aa an "empty appeal" and called on the government to makea gesture of good will. mu9m

the government may put forward its economicproposals as negotiating counters but probably will still press for modification of tha union demands. continuing disagreement by the two sides on television coverage threatens to delayiks. mjff



Read more: http://www.faqs.org/cia/docs/36/0000235307/POLAND:-SOLIDARITY-TO-PRESE NT-DEMANDS.html#ixzz0ZaorMw2Q

As I said - credible alternatives to Martial law? There really isn't any - every time the Communists gave an inch, Solidarity wanted more.

Since we know now that the Soviets had no intentions to invade in 1981,

The IPN are clearly nothing now more than Kaczynski’s historical attack dogs and specialise in releasing documents which are as questionable as the Hitler diaries, do you really trust a word they say?

Interesting that you view Jaruzelski as a hero who saved Poland from a Soviet invasion.

First of all, Kaczynski is the only President in post-communist Poland that was not a registered agent of communist security services. .... The next president was TW "Bolek" - the later "hero" of Solidarity, registered in 1970, and then TW "Alek" or Kwasniewski. All these say what you say - it's a witch hunt.

Which documents are qustionable, Harry? The ones Yelstsin handed over in 1992?

Appologists for communist crimes against Polish nationals would like IPN disolved, but what is your interest in defending the criminals? Your hate for Poland?

in the eyes of the world outside Poland, the greatest living Pole.

I have not and would not use the word "hero" to describe him.

But it is interesting that you don't have even a word to say about the content of my previous post about the Czechs disagreeing with you