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Jewish collaboration with Soviets 1939-1941 and after 1944 - forgotten chapter?


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aphrodisiacThreads: 22
Posts: 3,998
Joined: Apr 15, 09 ♀ 		 Jun 1, 11, 06:03    #91
Koala:
Just because There is a bunch of morons who believe in conspiracy theories and blame ex-commies, Western establishment and/or Jews for everything negative that's happening in the world, doesn't mean that Poland is in general racist and would be the worst place for Jews, when it fact it was historically the best country for Jews until Germans conquered Poland and wiped Jews out.

It was. Past tense and that was my point. If you try to call me anti Polish again because I state facts, then don't bother replying.
PolskiMoc:
Without Poles Jews would have likely gone extinct. At one time as much as 70 percent of the world jewish population lived in Poland. Poland accepted Jews through out almost every single persecution Jews went through.

I said: Jews are better off not living in Poland at the moment, since they are better off living in other countries. Where did I say that they didn't have good life in Poland?
PalivecThreads: -
Posts: 333
Joined: Apr 22, 11 ♂ 		 Jun 1, 11, 09:03    #92
aphrodisiac:
I said: Jews are better off not living in Poland at the moment, since they are better off living in other countries.


Exactly. And that's really irritating. The same people who are understandibly proud of the Polish tolerance towards Jews in the past sound like utter racists when the topic switches to todays Jews and the prospect of a modern, multicultural Poland.
aphrodisiacThreads: 22
Posts: 3,998
Joined: Apr 15, 09 ♀ 		 Jun 1, 11, 10:33    #93
Palivec:
The same people who are understandibly proud of the Polish tolerance towards Jews in the past sound like utter racists when the topic switches to todays Jews

that is not even that. Jews are doing well outside of Poland, so why would they go back?
IronsideThreads: 59
Posts: 6,786
Joined: Feb 26, 09 ♂ 		 Jun 1, 11, 11:42    #94
Palivec:
utter racists

BS
xenophobes more likely, Jews are white.
aphrodisiac:
Jews are doing well outside of Poland, so why would they go back?

well, take Israel on the table, I can think about few scenarios when they would like to move to Poland.
However you are right - why would they even considering to go back, especially if we think about second generation outside Poland.
emhaThreads: -
Posts: 180
Joined: Nov 24, 10 ♂ 		 Jun 1, 11, 12:51    #95
Ironside:
Jews are white

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beta_Israel
Shlomo Molla
David_18Threads: 111
Posts: 1,212
Joined: Jan 4, 07 ♂ 		 Jun 1, 11, 12:59    #96
aphrodisiac:
Jews are doing well outside of Poland, so why would they go back?

They should come back to their homeland, that is Poland.
gettingevenThreads: -
Posts: 5
Joined: Jun 2, 11 ♂ [Suspended] 		 Jun 5, 11, 01:36    #97
ITS ALL HERE

http://en.metapedia.org/wiki/Jedwabne


When jews stop telling lies about Poles
Poles will stop telling the truth about jews
Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11
Posts: 14,563
Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂ 		 Jun 5, 11, 01:55    #98
gettingeven:
ITS ALL HERE

http://en.metapedia.org/wiki/Jedwabne


Do you really believe metapedia??? Then you surely agree with that too:

http://en.metapedia.org/wiki/East_Germany

East Germany means the parts of the german country at the east of the Oder-Neisse-Border which is called East-Prussia, West-Prussia, Pomerania and Silesia.

Poland (yellow) and the nowadays occupied East-German territories


PennBoyThreads: 157
Posts: 3,441
Joined: Dec 7, 08  Pictures: 2 ♂ 		Edited by: PennBoy  Jun 5, 11, 01:59    #99
Bratwurst Boy:
Do you really believe metapedia??? Then you surely agree with that too:

http://en.metapedia.org/wiki/East_Germany

East Germany means the parts of the german country at the east of the Oder-Neisse-Border which is called East-Prussia, West-Prussia, Pomerania and Silesia.

Poland (yellow) and the nowadays occupied East-German territories

Yes that's just about right ;)
Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11
Posts: 14,563
Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂ 		 Jun 5, 11, 02:27    #100
PennBoy:
Yes that's just about right ;)


Heh:)
What is occupied needs to be freed again! ;)
PennBoyThreads: 157
Posts: 3,441
Joined: Dec 7, 08  Pictures: 2 ♂ 		 Jun 5, 11, 02:32    #101
Bratwurst Boy:
Heh:)
What is occupied needs to be freed again! ;)

Poland has some freeing of it's own to do, as Helmut Kohl said "Polish cities of Lvov and Vilnius" lol
Guest  Nov 9, 11, 00:28    #102
Collection of articles, letters, and others materials on the collaboration of polish jews with and Soviets.

scribd.com/doc/72092745/Collaboration-Of-Polish-Jews-With-Nkvd-and-Sov iets


fileswap.com/dl/cnJR8BxZC0/Collaboration-Of-Polish-Jews-With-Nkvd-and- Soviets_.pdf.html
PennBoyThreads: 157
Posts: 3,441
Joined: Dec 7, 08  Pictures: 2 ♂ 		 Dec 5, 11, 03:33    #103
RobertLee:
Jewish collaboration with Soviets 1939-1941 and after 1944 - forgotten chapter?

documentary that Jews (Zionists) are robbing Poland
delphiandomineThreads: 42
Posts: 9,954
Joined: Nov 25, 08 ♂ [Suspended] 		 Dec 6, 11, 22:50    #104
PennBoy:
documentary that Jews (Zionists) are robbing Poland


They are?

I don't recall being robbed by any Jewish Zionists recently.

In fact, the only robbery that takes place is from Polish Catholics who feel that the state should provide for them while they work illegally on the side - see also ; PiS voters. All those miners and others on generous handouts from the State - they're robbing me, not some imaginary Jewish Zionists.
PennBoyThreads: 157
Posts: 3,441
Joined: Dec 7, 08  Pictures: 2 ♂ 		 Dec 6, 11, 23:13    #105
delphiandomine:
In fact, the only robbery that takes place is from Polish Catholics who feel that the state should provide for them while they work illegally on the side - see also ; PiS voters.

Working na czarno goes on in every country it's not necessarily a bad thing. Government assistance barely gives people enough to survive, I applaud them that they want to work. Some choose to steal or sell drugs. Back to the documentary it's more of a warning of things to come. Israeli former prime minister and many other Zionist Jews talk about returning to Poland, Europe altogether and reestablishing their pre-war political and economic positions. No Pole in their right mind wants Poland to be like it was before the war. Jews living in the best parts of town, controlling most businesses. And also professionals" doctors (56% of all doctors in Poland), teachers (43%), journalists (22%) and lawyers (33%)."
MidasThreads: 2
Posts: 788
Joined: Jul 19, 10 ♂ 		 Dec 6, 11, 23:31    #106
In fact, the only robbery that takes place is from Polish Catholics who feel that the state should provide for them while they work illegally on the side - see also ; PiS voters. All those miners and others on generous handouts from the State - they're robbing me, not some imaginary Jewish Zionists.

A fair point.

Last time I checked the greatest "act of robbery", if one could call it such, was due to the actions of the so-called "Komisja Majatkowa" in Poland.
delphiandomineThreads: 42
Posts: 9,954
Joined: Nov 25, 08 ♂ [Suspended] 		Edited by: delphiandomine  Dec 6, 11, 23:34    #107
PennBoy:
Working na czarno goes on in every country it's not necessarily a bad thing.


Not to the extent in Poland, where "Polish Patriots" happily go on about defending Poland from Germany and so on, yet quite happily claim "renta" while working on the side. I've seen one figure that suggests that the average wage would go up by at least 1000zl a month if the black market was counted.

And yes, it's a bad thing when there are people dying because they can't afford to heat their flats. Get rid of half of the slackers on "renta" and use the money to subsidise heating costs for the truly vulnerable - job done.

PennBoy:
Israeli former prime minister and many other Zionist Jews talk about returning to Poland, Europe altogether and reestablishing their pre-war political and economic positions.


They're welcome to come and try, Poland needs much more well educated, internationally minded individuals who will work hard and contribute to this country. Establishing "positions" means nothing - everyone wants to establish a position. Poland is doing just that at the minute over Lithuania/Hungary/Slovakia, for instance.

No Pole in their right mind wants Poland to be like it was before the war. Jews living in the best parts of town, controlling most businesses. And also professionals" doctors (56% of all doctors in Poland), teachers (43%), journalists (22%) and lawyers (33%)."

Could that be because the Jews placed heavy emphasis on education and were willing to make sacrifices for it? The one defining factor about the Jewish people is that they work hard.

The fact that Jews tended to live in cities might also have something to do with it - Poland didn't have universal free education until the Communist era, and Poles in the countryside simply wouldn't have had the same opportunities as those in the cities. Quite obvious that those with better educational possibilities would come to dominate life - exactly as is happening in modern Poland.

Midas:
Last time I checked the greatest "act of robbery", if one could call it such, was due to the actions of the so-called "Komisja Majatkowa" in Poland.


Indeed. It's frightening to see how much the RCC has robbed Poland in the last 22 years - after pretending to be the saviour, as soon as she got her claws on power - the money started flowing from the State to pay them. In fact, if it didn't happen - perhaps Poland would have had the money to support businesses in the 90's.

Quite scary to think how the most feverently Catholic individuals were the ones who lost the most.
PennBoyThreads: 157
Posts: 3,441
Joined: Dec 7, 08  Pictures: 2 ♂ 		 Dec 6, 11, 23:56    #108
delphiandomine:
They're welcome to come and try, Poland needs much more well educated, internationally minded individuals who will work hard and contribute to this country.

Poland has an abundance of very well educated individuals who can't find work in their own country. It doesn't need any 'help'
delphiandomine:
Could that be because the Jews placed heavy emphasis on education and were willing to make sacrifices for it? The one defining factor about the Jewish people is that they work hard.

The fact that Jews tended to live in cities might also have something to do with it - Poland didn't have universal free education until the Communist era, and Poles in the countryside simply wouldn't have had the same opportunities as those in the cities. Quite obvious that those with better educational possibilities would come to dominate life - exactly as is happening in modern Poland.

You're definately at least partially right Delph. However, in prewar Poland and especially in the centuries before that Polish peasants didn't go to schools or didn't have the opportunity to, because or serfdom. Jews from the time of Casimir the Great had special privileges to trade and get an education, placing them in class society above all ethnic Poles who were peasants.
Although I'll admit that in prewar Poland it changed "The number of Jewish university students in Polish universities declined dtastically form 24.6 percent in 1921-1922 to 8.2 percent in 1938-1939." http://books.google.com/books?id=5_OXOwvjqjwC&pg=PA42&lpg=PA42&dq=perc entage+of+Jews+in+Polish+universities&source=bl&ots=Iha1UK0ipn&sig=Me6 sFRqDd3VgZzBpnmemKyz9ciE&hl=en&ei=ipveTqn2Nebi0QHjt_imBw&sa=X&oi=book_ result&ct=result&resnum=7&ved=0CE0Q6AEwBg#v=onepage&q=percentage%20of% 20Jews%20in%20Polish%20universities&f=false
delphiandomineThreads: 42
Posts: 9,954
Joined: Nov 25, 08 ♂ [Suspended] 		Edited by: delphiandomine  Dec 7, 11, 00:23    #109
PennBoy:
Poland has an abundance of very well educated individuals who can't find work in their own country. It doesn't need any 'help'


Sadly, most of them might be well educated, but they have little skills. I could give you about 4-5 examples off the top of my head where students have blown off work experience (or just work) that could lead them to something, just for the sake of nice holidays. Polish students on the whole, are pretty poor when it comes to real world knowledge. I know this, because I have to routinely sift through CV's - and very few of them are willing to put the hard work in. That's why I'm happy to welcome Jews - though I doubt they'll want to live here!

One thing that a Jewish friend of mine in the UK told me is that they generally put a heavy emphasis on "doing well". That means not only doing well in school, but also doing all the other things that help when it comes to getting employed.

Sadly, Polish students tend to have the attitude that "I'll get my papers and then the job comes to me".

Honestly, we could do with getting rid of a few of them to a crap Israeli kibbutz and replacing them with hardworking Jews. As long as they integrate and learn the language, no problem from me :)

PennBoy:
However, in prewar Poland and especially in the centuries before that Polish peasants didn't go to schools or didn't have the opportunity to, because or serfdom. Jews from the time of Casimir the Great had special privileges to trade and get an education, placing them in class society above all ethnic Poles who were peasants.


Funny how history turns out, isn't it? But yes, that's also a contributing factor - but certainly in part that Austria-Hungary annexed, Poles were on an equal level with Jews. I suspect that's why Lwów absolutely flourished between the wars - you had Poles and Jews both working hard and doing well - with only really Ukrainians discriminated against.

PennBoy:
Although I'll admit that in prewar Poland it changed "The number of Jewish university students in Polish universities declined dtastically form 24.6 percent in 1921-1922 to 8.2 percent in 1938-1939."


Sadly, that was due to artificial means - I don't remember the law, but there was something in...1935 I think that deliberately restricted the number of Jewish students in universities. The claim was to open more spaces for Polish students, but as I understand it - nothing really changed, the elite still went to the universities and the rural villagefolk had no access to education.

Also - wouldn't this figure also be partially affected by the increasing access to education by Polish villagers? I know for instance, the Jesuits really did a lot to provide an education in rural areas in the II RP - opportunities that didn't exist before.
PennBoyThreads: 157
Posts: 3,441
Joined: Dec 7, 08  Pictures: 2 ♂ 		 Dec 7, 11, 00:49    #110
delphiandomine:
Funny how history turns out, isn't it? But yes, that's also a contributing factor - but certainly in part that Austria-Hungary annexed, Poles were on an equal level with Jews. I suspect that's why Lwów absolutely flourished between the wars - you had Poles and Jews both working hard and doing well - with only really Ukrainians discriminated against.

I've read somewhere that Polish cities during the middle ages were built by Polish kings borrowing Jewish money.
delphiandomine:
Sadly, that was due to artificial means - I don't remember the law, but there was something in...1935 I think that deliberately restricted the number of Jewish students in universities.

Ghetto benches http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghetto_benches
delphiandomine:
Also - wouldn't this figure also be partially affected by the increasing access to education by Polish villagers?

I dunno if it was villagers, maybe some increase, but I believe it was more city dwellers continuing their education past the secondary mark.
Gruffi_GummiThreads: 1
Posts: 167
Joined: Jul 2, 11 ♂ 		 Dec 8, 11, 21:51    #111
Seanus:
Ask yourselves why Poland joined NATO and you will understand why Jews sided with the Soviets. It's all about perceived protection.



It is true, but it is also not my responsibility to seek excuses for them. The U.S. illegal Latinos may perceive that under Mexican protection they would be better off. Imagine your reaction in case of an imaginary U.S.-Mexican war, when Mexico occupies Texas and the army, guided by local Latino collaborators, goes on a spree, capturing teachers, clergy, policemen... This is precisely what happened in Eastern Poland after September 17, 1939.

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