The Jewish nation was invented in th 19th century - says an Israeli historian.

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Jan 1, 10, 02:43 #271

I imagine that with Gaza right next door holiday cheer is much needed. I wonder if they'll remember the needy palestinians tomorrow and why they are needy.

A few truckloads of propane to cook with or heat the house might be more appreciated than a christmas tree when you don't have electric to turn on the lights. The Jpost, is that like Reuters?

just rambling, never mind me.

Have a great New Year.

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Edited by: Amathyst Jan 1, 10, 15:15 #272

Harry:

You really are a complete moron: pretty much the only qualification (other than being a man) for becoming a mason is that one needs to be religious. It doesn't matter which religion but if you do not believe in a supreme being you can not join. And yes I do know what I am talking about from personal experience.

Bollo* I have several friends who are free masons and they are not religious. Whist I can agree its "Ritualistic" its not relgious Brother Harry! So I dont know what your "personal" experience is! The masonic lodge you belong to is very difference to any of the ones my friends belong to! Its all about connections and charity fund raising...

Another thing, there are female lodges in the UK! So you show how little you know!

You are the moron!

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Edited by: joepilsudski Jan 3, 10, 02:42 #273

jonni:

He may believe that but DNA evidence proves otherwise. Koestler was proved wrong, the theory has been totally, absolutely and completely discredited. The Khazar myth used to be put about by racial theorists for disingenuous reasons. Now you only tend to hear about it on dodgy websites and by anti-semitic middle-eastern polemicists.

Koestler has never been 'discredited'...By who?...Koestler himself was a Jewish Communist who became disenchanted with this 'new religion'...He was either an atheist or agnostic...Historically speaking, about 95% of the people we call 'Jews' are either of Khazarian or what is now called Ashkenazim background, or Sephardim, whose background is primarily from North Africa...Many Jews/Khazars consider his historical book very inconvenient...The linking of 'Jews' with OT Israelites is used for strictly political purposes.

Also, the only DNA proof comes from Zionist 'researchers'...Possibly the Nazis would also have been into such racial genetic research...It is always intriguing to compare Nazi and Zionist obsession with so-called 'racial purity'...Possibly this stems from a sort of 'arrested tribal development'...Both parties certainly worked together closely to create the state of Israel.

yehudi:

Sure. And he wouldn't lie would he? The only name of a person included on the site is someone named Boruch Bryan Ellison. If you google him all you get is his own site and weird anti-semitic sites that quote him. That's probably how a bottom-feeder like you found him. My guess is that he's not Jewish at all. Rest assured that whoever the hell he is, he is no more of a Jewish leader than you are.

I am not familiar with the man who owns this website under discussion, however, as it preaches a version of the 'made up' 'Noachde Laws' (invented by the Chabbad Lubavitch rebbes from Lithuania) it adheres to the same basic viewpoint.

There are different Hassidic groups, quite a few in the USA...Chabbad is extremely Zionist & political, as are most Hassids, but you also have the Satmars (from Russia) and other groups who consider Zionism a blasphemy.

Personally, I just consider Zionism an extremely destructive political vehicle, and one that will, as it is currently practiced, bring only suffering to Jews.

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Edited by: jonni Jan 3, 10, 03:53 #274

joepilsudski:

Koestler has never been 'discredited'...By who?...

Hammer, M. F.; A. J. Redd, E. T. Wood, M. R. Bonner, H. Jarjanazi, T. Karafet, S. Santachiara-Benerecetti, A. Oppenheim, M. A. Jobling, T. Jenkins, H. Ostrer, and B. Bonné-Tamir. "Jewish and Middle Eastern non-Jewish populations share a common pool of Y-chromosome biallelic haplotypes". Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences 97: 6769. May 9 2000

And at least a dozen other studies, all academically supervised.

joepilsudski:

Also, the only DNA proof comes from Zionist 'researchers'

I wonder why you think Drs Jenkins, Wood etc are Zionist? Perhaps because it fits your 'special' way of thinking on this subject.

joepilsudski:

Nazi ... Zionist ... Both parties certainly worked together closely to create the state of Israel.

@joe, your paranoia knows no bounds. Don't forget the shape-shifting Rothschilds! ;-)

Amathyst:

I have several friends who are free masons and they are not religious. Whist I can agree its "Ritualistic" its not relgious Brother Harry! So I dont know what your "personal" experience is! The masonic lodge you belong to is very difference to any of the ones my friends belong to! Its all about connections and charity fund raising...

Another thing, there are female lodges in the UK!

Hmmm. 95% (maybe even more) of the lodges in the English speaking world require prospective members to declare belief in a supreme being. Outside the English speaking world there is rather more choice. And as for female lodges, they aren't only in the UK. England has around 50,000 female members, a similar number in France, oodles in South America. Even some in Poland. There are also mixed lodges (which traditionally don't do much fundraising).

Des Esseintes:

Jonni also seems to doubt that most of the Gazans are refugees, if that is what the unfortunate coloquialism "Codswallup" means, and he is wrong here too.

Who mentioned the Gazans? They are almost all refugees! Read the post - perhaps you made a typing mistake.

And by the way, 'codswallop' is neither a colloquiallism or unfortunate. Replying to your post:

Des Esseintes: most of you are refugees

it is very apt.

edit

joepilsudski:

There are different Hassidic groups, quite a few in the USA...Chabbad is extremely Zionist & political, as are most Hassids, but you also have the Satmars (from Russia) and other groups who consider Zionism a blasphemy.

There are (I think) around fifty Chasid dynasties - some with thousands of members, some with dozens. The ones who aren't Zionist are tiny in number.

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Edited by: joepilsudski Jan 4, 10, 15:55 #275

jonni

Jonni, I enjoyed our conversation about art, but perhaps we strayed too 'off topic'...And, Jonni, I have read some of these 'genetic' studies, trying to understand as well as a layman can...However, I am not convinced by any of them, as to me me they 'prove' nothing...Areas of genetic research concerning origins and racial descent are always inconclusive, IMHO...The point I make here is that both certain elements of the Nazis and the Zionists have a very unhealthy 'proclivity' toward 'racially based determinism'.

As far as the history of the Khazars, Koestler work is only the most widely read in the modern era...This history has also been researched by earlier writers...I would recommend 'JRs Rare Books' online for reading some earlier work.

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Edited by: jonni Jan 4, 10, 16:06 #276

The discussion about art was interesting - I've never been sure about the debate over the aesthetics of beauty in art, and how certain artists work (Lowry is a good example) fit into that. I have a friend in Berlin, a filmmaker, who is roundly criticised as decadent (not unaccurately) because his work is too 'beautiful'.

joepilsudski:

Koestler work is only the most widely read in the modern era.

Koestler was an interesting man but in many ways naive. When he wrote that book - criticised as unscholarly from the start - he had no idea that anti-semites would seize on its contents to try to 'prove' something mischievous about his people.

I too dislike racial theory - don't you think culture and memetics are so much more important?

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Edited by: joepilsudski Jan 4, 10, 17:41 #277

jonni:

Koestler was an interesting man but in many ways naive. When he wrote that book - criticised as unscholarly from the start - he had no idea that anti-semites would seize on its contents to try to 'prove' something mischievous about his people.

I too dislike racial theory - don't you think culture and memetics are so much more important?

I feel that Koestler's work was quite scholarly...I find nothing 'anti-semitic' about it...Zionists don't like it because it contradicts their interpretation or misuse of what they refer to as 'torah' and also undercuts supposedly the 'scriptural' basis for the state of Israel...There is nothing inherently mischievous about Jewish people from Russia or Eastern Europe...You know, some people just do not like Jews, for whatever reason...I would suspect that some of this comes from never having know a Jewish person or having one as a friend...Hey, but some people just don't like me!

Memetics?...I understand something of the term and it's meaning, but it is a little 'too intellectual' for me, like, for example, all the French 'theorists' (Foucault et al) about culture...I'm not 'anti-intellectual', you know, I just operate more from the heart...Culture, I understand...To me, culture is just what people make, be it physical, like buildings or various products or inventions, or 'conceptual' like art or modes of organizing society...Morality would also be included.

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Edited by: jonni Jan 4, 10, 19:19 #278

joepilsudski:

I feel that Koestler's work was quite scholarly

He wasn't a linguist, and in that book, jumped to some pretty wild conclusions based on place names etc.

joepilsudski:

I find nothing 'anti-semitic' about it

Because there's nothing anti-semitic there. Koestler was in many ways naive, and didn't realise that the book's conclusions would be twisted by anti-semites.

joepilsudski:

To me, culture is just what people make......Morality would also be included.

Then you understand memetics. :-)

edit

Do you know the site 'corrupt.org? I'd be interested to know what you make of it. I'm not over-impressed with some of their ideas - old concepts cloaked in modern language, but I think you'd find some of it interesting.

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Edited by: joepilsudski Jan 4, 10, 22:08 #279

jonni:

Do you know the site 'corrupt.org? I'd be interested to know what you make of it. I'm not over-impressed with some of their ideas - old concepts cloaked in modern language, but I think you'd find some of it interesting.

I have looked at it, but it seems to be just a bunch of bloggers who don't believe in anything,
and can't even express their disbelief in interesting terms...Now, here is a site that I stumbled on years ago, read some articles, and then stumbled on it again last month...Shockingly, these guys, one of whom was a recording engineer in the UK, are now IN PRISON there for 'inciting hatred on the Internet'...You may disagree with some of the articles, but there is some wit there, and intelligence, and, hell, the engineer fellow knows music, and has an interesting POV.

http://www.heretical.com]

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Edited by: jonni Jan 4, 10, 22:28 #280

joepilsudski:

Shockingly, these guys, one of whom was a recording engineer in the UK, are now IN PRISON there for 'inciting hatred on the Internet

I know of those two - the trial was in my home town. One of them was a member of a neo-Nazi group.

It all started when they were distributing bundles of race hate leaflets (called "Tales of the Holohoax" with grotesque images of murdered Jews alongside cartoons and articles ridiculing ethnic groups) pushed through the letterbox of a synagogue.

Strange their website said the case "received limited reporting in the UK" - it was splashed on the front page of several newspapers, and on the TV news. If they hadn't skipped bail and gone to the US (who sent them back) they might have got off with a fine.

Looking at the website, it has some seriously sick stuff on it.

joepilsudskiThreads: 44 Posts: 2,529 Joined: Apr 27, 07 ♂	Jan 5, 10, 01:05 #281
Yes I know about this 'neo-nazi' since everyone who criticizes Jews or is, maybe, pro-White English people, a 'neo-nazi'...But what they were charged with was 'inciting racial hatred on the Internet'...I saw no spreading of hatred on their site, only opinion and sarcasm, with a dose of irony, and no incitement to anything except maybe some thinking...No reason to send anyone to a prison.

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Edited by: jonni Jan 5, 10, 01:15 #282

joepilsudski:

Yes I know about this 'neo-nazi' since everyone who criticizes Jews or is, maybe, pro-White English people, a 'neo-nazi'

One, if not both, of them is openly a neo-nazi. A well known name in my region as a white supremacist organiser, a party member and (if I remember correctly) a former local election candidate.

joepilsudski:

But what they were charged with was 'inciting racial hatred on the Internet

The musician guy was actually convicted on fourteen counts. Including sending race hate leaflets to a synagogue.

joepilsudski:

No reason to send anyone to a prison.

Jumping bail and leaving the country generally lands someone in prison.

Here's a quote about the musician, from wiki, but it's too late here in PL to go trawling the internet: Sheppard was the host of Redwatch, a far-right site that publishes photographs, names, addresses and telephone numbers of anti-racist campaigners from across the political spectrum

And a link to an article from The Daily Mail (not generally known as a liberal, multicultural voice) about the extradition.

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Edited by: joepilsudski Jan 5, 10, 04:52 #283

jonni:

One, if not both, of them is openly a neo-nazi. A well known name in my region as a white supremacist organiser, a party member and (if I remember correctly) a former local election candidate

My friend, I do not wish to argue with you about this...I know the story, it is on their site, and much of the UK press, or any press, is in the hands of pimps.

I do not necessarily agree with them about everything...On there site, you will see that they just repost articles and essays by others.

I simply suggested their website as one with an interesting point of view.

I think White Europeans and Americans are under attack and as we have a great culture, we must be aware of this.

I brought this to your notice because these men were IMPRISONED for voicing an OPINION.

It could happen to you or me.

Anyway, we are veering 'off topic' and certain moderators will soon delete this if we continue...Please email me if you want to discuss this further....See what I mean?

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Apr 5, 10, 05:57 #284

One theory is the Judaism spread early AD, mostly by men (rather than women) migrating to other parts of the world (well, mostly Europe) and Jewish ancestry tended to be Middle Eastern in the male side and local in the female. At some point, before strong notions of nation appeared, they started the whole thing about people being Jewish if they have a Jewish mother. Throw a few hundred years into the mix and you have a wide variety of ancestry amongst Jews.

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Oct 11, 10, 20:18 #285

Don't get me wrong, I can agree with tenets of Jewish faith but their politics are sneaky and woefully corrupt. The latest is that Netanyahu is offering a freeze on settlements, sth against international law as decided by even supporters of his regime, in exchange for the recognition that there is a Jewish nation state. It's sth like if the Palestinian authority were to go into Jewish settlements (squatter pads), build on land there and then insist that they get a fully-fledged state in order for them to hand it back.

I hope Abbas gives no quarter. They are a disingenuous bunch of freaks, those Likudists. I believe Likud means victory in Hebrew but I'm praying for anything but their victory. He is a Zionist, not a guy that represents the Jewish interest.

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Edited by: joepilsudski Oct 30, 10, 17:38 #286

Unfortunately we have the most base and corrupt elements of Israeli 'politiks' in power...These people, Netanyahu, Leiberman, and all the current and ex-Mossadniks and gangsters are the end for not only Palestinians, but Israeli people...These people have no morals.

Abbas/PLA are completely under their thumb...Abbas would probably give in more, but he is afraid of getting shot...Abbas corrupt: Netanyahu hook him up as partner in a cell phone company for playing ball...Hamas was democratically elected, offered Israelis an open ended truce, and, in addition, did a relatively good job at providing social services, with a minimum of corruption...But, we can see how the 'only democracy in the Middle East' treats a real democratic movement when it is generated by Arabs.

The US, EU and Russia have all showed their moral bankruptcy in not respecting the wishes of the Palestinians in electing Hamas.

Israel has nothing to fear from Hamas or Hisbollah in military terms if they deal with them honestly...However, what we are witnessing is a spiritual warfare, and here the Israelis have much to fear, as they are allied with the devil, who is the classic example of a loser.

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