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Why are Jews pestering Poland for "proper" WW2 monetary restitution/reparations?

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rychlikThreads: 51 Posts: 442 Joined: Aug 6, 08 ♂	Apr 7, 10, 06:05 #1
Forgive my ignorance on this topic but it is it true that the Polish Jewish diaspora around the globe is still pestering Poland for "proper" monetary restitution/reparations (ex. $65 billion) for atrocities committed against them in WWII? Weren't Jews compensated greatly after the war? What are the Jews p'issed about?

Sire BrensharThreads: 1 Posts: 86 Joined: Jan 23, 10 ♂	Apr 7, 10, 07:00 #2
Not pissed, but greedy, or at least the ones that are still pissed are the ones who have no reason for it i.e it happened to their ancestors but they still feel the need to be counted as victims.

richasisThreads: 5 Posts: 833 Joined: Jul 25, 09 ♂	Edited by: richasis Apr 7, 10, 07:04 #3
rychlik: What are the Jews p'issed about? That Goyim have any money at all.

grubasThreads: 20 Posts: 1,390 Joined: Feb 1, 10 ♂	Apr 7, 10, 07:40 #4
rychlik: Weren't Jews compensated greatly after the war? So what?There is never to much money. rychlik: What are the Jews p'issed about? Pissed?This is bussines,nothing personal.

1jolaThreads: 33 Posts: 2,739 Joined: Sep 23, 08 ♂	Apr 7, 10, 08:53 #5
rychlik: still pestering Poland for "proper" monetary restitution/reparations (ex. $65 billion) for atrocities committed against them in WWII? There are Jewish organizations that are seeking reparations from Poland for property lost during and after the war. When starting a thread, you should site a source of your information, not just posting any random thought that pops into your mind.

convexThreads: 47 Posts: 7,189 Joined: Nov 25, 09 ♂	Apr 7, 10, 10:11 #6
richasis: That Goyim have any money at all. Heh Good luck with your 40 acres and a mule. I'm pretty sure that the huge chunk of Germany was worth at least $65b. Maybe talk to the Russians about compensation for what they took?

HarryThreads: 59 Posts: 7,996 Joined: May 2, 07 ♂	Apr 7, 10, 10:52 #7
1jola: There are Jewish organizations that are seeking reparations from Poland for property lost during and after the war. And there are individual Jews who would like their pre-war property back too. Of course there are also lots of Catholics who would like their pre-war property back too. Unfortunately the Polish government is being rather difficult towards all those people.

1jolaThreads: 33 Posts: 2,739 Joined: Sep 23, 08 ♂	Apr 7, 10, 13:07 #8
You're right Harry, Jews are not special in this respect and heirs do seek justice. I think the OP had in mind a scam certain Jewish organizations are trying to run but has failed to give a source. Poland happens to be just one of countries they want to flece.

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Apr 7, 10, 13:40 #9

1jola:

I think the OP had in mind a scam certain Jewish organizations are trying to run but has failed to give a source.

I know the ones you are talking about. Bunch of scum in my opinion and scum that seriously damage the chances that people who actually do have a claim might get their property back (or at least compensation for that property). I get the feeling that a lot of people are going to be just following the example of the former owners of the Europejski hotel and take Poland to the European court to get their property back.

vetalaThreads: - Posts: 512 Joined: Jul 10, 09 ♀	Apr 7, 10, 15:40 #10
I can understand them. My family used to own lots of buildings in Kraków, I'd love to have them back as well. But it's simply impossible. I hate when people are trying to make it some sort of Polish-Jewish issue - "Jews want money because they are anti-polish!" "Poles won't return money because they are antisemites!".

HarryThreads: 59 Posts: 7,996 Joined: May 2, 07 ♂	Apr 7, 10, 15:56 #11
vetala: My family used to own lots of buildings in Kraków, I'd love to have them back as well. But it's simply impossible. Why is it impossible?

SokratesThreads: 19 Posts: 4,464 Joined: Jan 19, 09 ♂ [Suspended]	Apr 7, 10, 17:10 #12
vetala: "Jews want money because they are anti-polish!" Many of the Jews want money because they're greedy.

TheOtherThreads: 4 Posts: 1,440 Joined: Jul 13, 09 ♂	Apr 7, 10, 17:16 #13
Harry: Of course there are also lots of Catholics who would like their pre-war property back too. I bet there are also a lot of protestants to the west of Poland who would like their pre-war property back ... ;)

HarryThreads: 59 Posts: 7,996 Joined: May 2, 07 ♂	Apr 7, 10, 17:17 #14
TheOther: I bet there are also a lot of protestants to the west of Poland who would like their pre-war property back ... ;) They might like it back but they need to direct their claims for compensation to the German government.

TheOtherThreads: 4 Posts: 1,440 Joined: Jul 13, 09 ♂	Edited by: TheOther Apr 7, 10, 17:30 #15
Harry: they need to direct their claims for compensation to the German government While I agree with you here, I still see a problem with it. If the loss of Jewish property during and after the war would be compensated by Poland, then - from a legal perspective - why not the German one? Probably the reason why Poland's politicians are blocking claims from all sides.

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Apr 7, 10, 18:10 #16

1jola:

You're right Harry, Jews are not special in this respect and heirs do seek justice.

I think the OP had in mind a scam certain Jewish organizations are trying to run but has failed to give a source. Poland happens to be just one of countries they want to flece.

Ok I can tell you're going to be annoying. Look, I just saw somewhere on a Polish site that PM Tusk has refused to bow to these certain "Jewish organizations". I even heard the figure of $65 billion that he has refused to pay to the Jewish diaspora (I don't know if it's all true). I believe Poles in Poland and abroad know that Jews still have some sort of "beef" with Poland regarding this issue. And quite honestly sometimes I feel like Jews have better relations with the French and Germans then with Poles. Do you guys really think for example that Polish Americans and Jewish Americans really work together? I hear the Jewish American lobby group is quite powerful in America and I'm pretty sure they don't have a lot of Polish interests in mind.

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂	Apr 7, 10, 18:18 #17
rychlik: And quite honestly sometimes I feel like Jews have better relations with the French and Germans then with Poles. Well... http://www.jta.org/news/article/2009/09/13/1007810/most-israeli-jews-l ike-germany

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Apr 7, 10, 18:26 #18

BERLIN (JTA) – Most Israeli Jews have a favorable opinion of Germany, a newly released poll shows.

The joint survey of 1,700 Israelis by the Hebrew University of Jerusalem and the German Friedrich Ebert Foundation was presented Sept. 10 at a conference in Jerusalem.

Researchers contacted 1,200 Jewish and 500 Arab Israelis. More Jews than Arabs tended to favor Germany.

Some 95 percent of Israelis said they would buy German goods. In addition, 52 percent of Israeli Jews are pleased with Germany's role in Middle East politics, while 27 percent of Israeli Arabs find Germany's Middle East role positive.

Some 83 percent of secular respondents define Israel's relations with Germany as normal, in contrast with just 48 percent of fervently Orthodox respondents.

Professor Moshe Zimmerman of Hebrew University's Koebner Center said in a statement that "in contrast to the official stance and that of the media, the Israeli public -- and especially the Jewish public in Israel -- relates to Germany not only in a neutral manner but actually in a supportive way."

Zimmerman told Ynet he believed that Arab Israelis "suspect that the German sympathy comes at the expense of support of the Palestinian interests."

He also said the survey showed clearly that "The more religious you are, the more you hate Germans." In addition, those further to the political right were less likely to be pleased with Germany's Mideast politics.

*See, this is interesting. I guess Germans are scared of Jews nowadays and give them everything they want :)
Back in 2007, I told this Jew I was going to visit Poland for the summer. He replied that Poland was not really a European country. Then I just told him Israel was not really a country and he got all pi'ssy :)

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Apr 7, 10, 19:08 #19

The first thing about this issue is that Poland is the only EU country to offer no reparation for the losses of both Jewish and non Jewish families during 1939-89. This was originally a condition of their accession to the EU, but was dropped just before they signed on the understanding that they would pass a motion through their own Parliament so that they were compliant with the European Convention of Human Rights. They have tried to do this 14 times and there are those of you that might think that this is rather half hearted.

The second thing is that it is not a question of full restitution for these Jewish and non Jewish people, but a gesture. At a time where there are ever fewer survivors there is a need for greater urgency simply in the name of human decency.

There are other complex factor involved, but I think that these are the main ones. The real problem is that there is a lack of will to do anything about this amongst the governments involved.

The only thing that might help is concerted international pressure to get this sorted out. As such, get the your polish friends to write to their MP to raise it as an issue and therefore fight to restore Poland’s international reputation. If it's not done now, it will stand forever in the history books. Justice delayed is Justice denied.

MEMBER ♂

Apr 7, 10, 19:32 #20

look it take a lot of money to run Jewish war and propaganda machine so it needs more and more founds, Germany paid them now they trying to squeeze Poland who is going to be next Ukraine or Lithuania or Belarus or Russia, but do not forget that Jews ware benefactors of Polish misery during partitions as the properties were taken from Poles and sold to Jews or other non Pole as Poles could not own property.

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂	Apr 7, 10, 19:42 #21
Marek11111: as Poles could not own property. Huh? Do you have a link for that?

convexThreads: 47 Posts: 7,189 Joined: Nov 25, 09 ♂	Apr 7, 10, 19:57 #22
Fairness: The first thing about this issue is that Poland is the only EU country to offer no reparation for the losses of both Jewish and non Jewish families during 1939-89. If you recall, those people owned property in the second Polish repbulic, I'd suggest contacting representatives of that state to get the property back.

FairnessThreads: - Posts: 3 Joined: Apr 7, 10 ♂	Apr 7, 10, 20:23 #23
If only it was that simple. From what I understand those that have tried have been fobbed off. If you know of an organisation, charity, or indeed a person in the government that might be helpful please let me know as there are quite a few people that I know who would be interested in getting in touch with them.

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Apr 7, 10, 20:27 #24

Fairness:

If only it was that simple. From what I understand those that have tried have been fobbed off. If you know of an organisation, charity, or indeed a person in the government that might be helpful please let me know as there are quite a few people that I know who would be interested in getting in touch with them.

The point is the country no longer exists. In fact, there was an entirely new country that took its place which also no longer exists.

Maybe there is a way to get compensation from the billionaires that moved to Israel from the the Soviet Union?

guzzlerThreads: 6 Posts: 165 Joined: Mar 28, 10 ♂	Apr 7, 10, 20:48 #25
Is there a statute of limitations in Polish Law ?

HarryThreads: 59 Posts: 7,996 Joined: May 2, 07 ♂	Apr 7, 10, 20:50 #26
Bratwurst Boy: Huh? Do you have a link for that? Don't be silly: of course he doesn't.

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Edited by: Sokrates Apr 7, 10, 21:13 #27

Fairness:

If only it was that simple. From what I understand those that have tried have been fobbed off.

1. Proof of ownership is needed.
2. Be prepared to pay for any rebuilding and investments the state did.
3. You need to be a direct descendant.
4. You need to be prepared to face issues that Convex describes, there can be as many as two Polish Commonwealths none of which are continued in todays govt.

The people you described have often been some distant relative or just a person without papers to validate their claims, of course they've been told to shove off, no one is giving out money for free just because people feel they're entitled to them.

Bratwurst Boy:

Huh? Do you have a link for that?

He means the germanisation strategies of Prussia, Poles needed state approved permit to own lands and the Prussian govt did everything within legal bonduaries to abuse this law.

A famous example was that of Michał Drzymała, when Prussians denied him right to erect a house on his property he bought a circus wagon, the Germans pulled a number on him telling him his wagon cant stay in one place more than 24 hrs so he moved it 2 feet each day.

It took several years to dislodge him but it portrays the attitude of Germans in Prussia toward Poles, still they did work within legal bonduaries even if they tried to abuse them at every step.

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Apr 7, 10, 21:42 #28

Sokrates:

Yet another famous Polish lie. In this case Mr Drzymala had purchased the land but Poles still use him to prove that they couldn't, er, own land. Spot the obvious lie there.

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Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Apr 7, 10, 21:47 #29

Sokrates:

A famous example was that of Michał Drzymała,

Are there other cases? A law or something? Because knowing my Prussians there might have been something wrong with the planned house rather than a law against Poles having property...

I mean, come on Bismarck's much famed "Kulturkampf" was more against the power of the Catholic Church than against Poles, after all it was a german Catholic who tried to kill him for it.

Then the "germanization", Prussia using german as the main language for all minorities inside the borders and of course enforcing it in schools and offices is quite a natural thing to do for every country, even today....so nothing special anti-polish about it either.

Frankly...if you dig deeper many so called prussian anti-polish behaviour was nothing of that sort or at least totally in the boundaries of the behaviour of an ordinary state! That's why I prefer links for learning....

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Apr 7, 10, 21:55 #30

It beats me! They know that it could open Pandora's Box, a nasty can of worms. I saw some Jews here and Polish gymnazjum students were showing them around. My wife and I were joking about them having plans for those properties they were being shown out of architectural appreciation concerns.

Her dad, one of the fairest guys I have ever met, had bad experiences with Jews and that's why he's sceptical and questions their intentions. Sorry, too little, too late!