Why are Jews pestering Poland for "proper" WW2 monetary restitution/reparations?

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Feb 6, 12, 08:59 #511

boleta:

It's off topic.

Really? Discussing restitution/reparations being demanded from the Polish state are off topic for this thread?

boleta:

It's a common practice all over the civilized world to be paid when using someone's property.

So why does the Church pay so little when leasing buildings from the city of Poznan?

boleta:

Your outrage seems rehearsed.

No outrage from me. Not even any surprise: this kind of thing is exactly what those of us who choose to live in Poland have come to expect from the RCC.

boleta

Feb 6, 12, 09:08 #512

Harry:

Really? Discussing restitution/reparations being demanded from the Polish state are off topic for this thread?

Do you see "Jews" in the title? I do. Big bold letters.

Harry:

So why does the Church pay so little when leasing buildings from the city of Poznan?

You don't discuss in good faith. Looks like you two have an agenda. To quote you " a bunch of bigoted twats banging on and on and on and on and on about RCC for the rest of eternity"

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Feb 6, 12, 09:09 #513

boleta:

Looks like you two have an agenda. To quote you " a bunch of bigoted twats banging on and on and on and on and on about RCC for the rest of eternity"

When you live here and see schoolchildren being kicked out of their school, or people going cold and hungry in dismal social housing in order to provide an institution operated by fat, spoiled, wealthy old men with even more cash - you do tend to oppose such things.

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Feb 6, 12, 09:12 #514

I think this topic can be boiled down to one word- hypocrisy. People take note of when someone or some people are being disingenuous. People take special note of when the disingenuous manage to fool people from catching on to their scheming. This is what's happening; there is a chance there are people who are being disingenuous with their claims and their "status" as victims. Those people in this case would be Jewish. This does not mean all or even the majority of claims in this matter are being made by disingenuous parties- it is mostly all hypothetical at this point. But already anyone doubting the veracity of every single claim based on their knowledge of prior deception made by some Jewish groups has to prove their innocence of bigotry despite never making any comments that could be interpreted as such.

It is of note that EVERY time anyone EVER objects to claims being made by Jewish people, in this matter or others and for whatever their reason, accusations of racism and bigotry come to the forefront faster than you can say Hozanah. If sound counterarguments can be made then certainly they can be made without the social knee jerk reactions (and I'm pretty socially liberal).

It is this and this alone that sets people off and causes people, myself included, to become suspicious of large scale "reparations" demands as it has been obvious for some time that there are despicable abuses and misrepresentations going on by some Jewsish people. Being disgusted by corruption in politics, business, social benefits and undue ww2 reparations are facts of life in Europe and the world, one should be free to inquire into them.

If a person cannot digest that then it is clear they have no interest in objective discussion.

HarryThreads: 62 Posts: 8,508 Joined: May 2, 07 ♂ [Suspended]	Feb 6, 12, 09:13 #515
boleta: Do you see "Jews" in the title? I do. Big bold letters. Yes, I see it. Perhaps you can explain why some people think that Jews pestering Poland for "proper" WW2 monetary restitution but that the RCC is simply behaving in a perfectly acceptable way when demanding restitution?

boleta	Feb 6, 12, 09:18 #516
delphiandomine: When you live here and see schoolchildren being kicked out of their school, or people going cold and hungry in dismal social housing in order to provide an institution operated by fat, spoiled, wealthy old men with even more cash - you do tend to oppose such things. Stop pretending that you are the keeper of super cool, that the rest of us mere mortals miss. Its phony.

Foreigner4Threads: 22 Posts: 1,988 Joined: Nov 18, 07 ♂	Edited by: Foreigner4 Feb 6, 12, 09:36 #517
Wait, are people actually trying to argue that since the RCC is going unchecked with regard to their property and financial claims in this country, that it then follows that Jews should be free to do so if they wish to as well?

Lyzko

Feb 6, 12, 10:10 #518

My dear old Ironside, you've clearly misunderstood (or -interpreted!! LOL) most of what I've written or you wouldn't post as you have:-)
I am in fact the one who condemns those who say the Jews are THE Chosen People who therefore can do no wrong! How can you claim I've said otherwise unless you haven't gotten what I was driving at?

Israelis who wantonly condone retribution without trial, even for Hamas leaders, are wrong. Interesting though when you stop to think of it that Eichmann was the sole person EVER executed by the State of Israel, not ANY Hamas, Hetzbollah or other Palestinian leader, including Arafat himself!!!!

Foreigner4Threads: 22 Posts: 1,988 Joined: Nov 18, 07 ♂	Feb 6, 12, 10:13 #519
Uh, dude, the politicians of Israel have had quite a few people executed, just not in the same manner as the example you've provided.

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Feb 6, 12, 10:32 #520

delphiandomine:

Sorry, but when it comes to the education of children, this is far more important than paying a bunch of fat spoiled old men.

If you honestly think that the RCC's needs are greater than our children's needs - then...

That exactly what commie would say !
Harry if you are purposely trying to lead this thread off-topic because of Mark's posts, my advice would be - ignore him. You only make it worse, not to mention delph commie BS about RCC.

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Feb 6, 12, 10:40 #521

Ironside:

That exactly what commie would say !

No, it's exactly what anyone with half a brain would say. Investing in children (the future of Poland) or a bunch of fat, spoiled old men with no interests other than buying yet more expensive dresses for themselves? Come on!

Foreigner4:

Wait, are people actually trying to argue that since the RCC is going unchecked with regard to their property and financial claims in this country, that it then follows that Jews should be free to do so if they wish to as well?

Why not - I'm all for religions being equally treated. The RCC has robbed Poland, now it's the Jewish turn.

IronsideThreads: 59 Posts: 6,786 Joined: Feb 26, 09 ♂	Feb 6, 12, 10:43 #522
Lyzko: I am in fact the one who condemns those who say the Jews are THE Chosen People who therefore can do no wrong! That very noble of you. Where is your post I missed condemning those scam-artists for trying to extorts money from Poland under the false pretext. There is one dude called F. who did just that.

delphiandomineThreads: 42 Posts: 9,954 Joined: Nov 25, 08 ♂ [Suspended]	Feb 6, 12, 10:44 #523
Ironside: Where is your post I missed condemning those scam-artists Where's your post condemning the RCC for similar behaviour?

gumishuThreads: 17 Posts: 3,943 Joined: Apr 6, 09 ♂	Feb 6, 12, 10:45 #524
delphiandomine: The RCC has robbed Poland we can get back a great deal of what the RCC 'retrieved' from the state in not so lawful manner (with the help of the representants of the state btw) - and we don't need to make the same mistake again, now with Jews, period

Marek11111Threads: 49 Posts: 1,954 Joined: Aug 6, 09 ♂	Feb 6, 12, 10:45 #525
Ironside: Harry if you are purposely trying to lead this thread off-topic because of Mark's posts, my advice would be - ignore him. You only make it worse, not to mention delph commie BS about RCC. well Iron it is not off-topic, Jews killed Poles so why we talking about Jewish restitution and not Polish restitution from the state of Israel.

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Edited by: Ironside Feb 6, 12, 10:50 #526

delphiandomine:

No, it's exactly what anyone with half a brain would say. Investing in children (the future of Poland) or a bunch of fat, spoiled old men with no interests other than buying yet more expensive dresses for themselves? Come on!

You miss your Kirk aren't you?

delphiandomine:

The RCC has robbed Poland, now it's the Jewish turn.

The RCC want its back property robbed by Commies,only commie of fool would call that robbery.
Its not about the Jewish - its about some Jewish scam-artists looking free monies,
delph most of them are from the USA, knowing your dislike of Pol-Ams I would think that you would equally dislike Jew-Ams. I guess you know your preferences.

Foreigner4Threads: 22 Posts: 1,988 Joined: Nov 18, 07 ♂	Feb 6, 12, 10:57 #527
delphiandomine: Why not - I'm all for religions being equally treated. The RCC has robbed Poland, now it's the Jewish turn.

Lyzko

Feb 6, 12, 10:59 #528

Foreigner4, you name me a country which hasn't executed, murderers, traitors or other capital criminals, in some cases, publically!! The analogy isn't applicable here. Whilst I normally oppose capital punishment, even for hardened and repeat offenders, there was nothing "normal" about the Shoah, therefore abnormal measures, such as the death penalty, have to be applied. In the case of Herr Eichmann, a man to whom none of the attributes of a hardened criminal apply to any sob-story degree, furthermore, who masterminded only the most hideous end to an entire group of human beings, deserves only death himself, as human lives meant nothing to him.

Not all situations are relative, I'm afraid.

Lyzko	Feb 6, 12, 11:02 #529
Let's distinguish though "scam-artists" as unfair label for those truly deserving of restitution froma recalcitrant regime vs. those others who honestly desired to DISHONESTLY bilk money from the Polish government. The two do not belong in the same category.

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Feb 6, 12, 11:29 #530

Lyzko:

Let's distinguish though "scam-artists" as unfair label for those truly deserving of restitution froma recalcitrant regime vs. those others who honestly desired to DISHONESTLY bilk money from the Polish government. The two do not belong in the same category.

Are you reading post here at all ?
Those who truly or less truly deserve restitution for property can and do get it in Poland.
We are talking about attempts on extorting monies from Poland's government for all Jewish property based on estimation of their worth nowadays. It means also for property returned already or paid for already as for property without survivors to claim it .

Foreigner4Threads: 22 Posts: 1,988 Joined: Nov 18, 07 ♂	Feb 6, 12, 12:22 #531
Lyzko: Foreigner4, you name me a country which hasn't executed, murderers, traitors or other capital criminals, in some cases, publically!! I never stated other governments don't do such things, I merely pointed out that your claim regarding the Israeli government is fictitious.

Lyzko

Feb 6, 12, 16:08 #532

Now I think I finally understood your last post, Ironside. We seem to be on the same wave length (..regarding this issue, at least)

:-)

@Foreigner,
Sorry there, dude, but my post regrading Israel's policies aren't fictitious!! Fictitious would be the claim that Hamas DOESN'T want to wipe Israel off the map, that Arafat was "secretly" a friend of Israel etc.... Apparently, you still can't tell the difference between fact and fiction.

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Edited by: Foreigner4 Feb 7, 12, 13:12 #533

Lyzko:

Sorry there, dude, but my post regrading Israel's policies aren't fictitious!!

You say you're sorry then insist on the veracity of you lie; perhaps you simply can't stop lying on this matter.

Lyzko:

Fictitious would be the claim that Hamas...

I am not discussing Hamas, I hadn't brought up the topic nor had I contributed to discussing Hamas- you have brought up that organization for the sole purpose of a red herring. We're at the point now where your dishonesty is so evident that there's nothing you can write which could distract from it. Nonetheless, whatever Hamas' position is (I honestly don't know what they have said about Jews, Catholics or Hindus for that matter), it does nothing to preclude Israelis from also being contemptuous of others' rights and engaging in immoral or downright evil endeavors (regardless that be the slaughter of non-jewish families in their homes or pursuing illegitimate property claims in Poland).

This position of having to choose one side or the other is naive if we consider for a moment that political groups are under no obligation to be honest with their motives and objectives- their goals are historically of self-interest. It is perfectly plausible that neither side is acting in good faith and it seems to me preposterous that so many insist (parrot) on exactly that scenario.

You sir, cause me impatience on this topic- make a statement worth responding to or relieve me of your deceptively barren rebuttals.

Lyzko	Feb 7, 12, 19:17 #534
Neither side IS beyond reproach for foul acts, that's not a subject of debate on my part (and never was). I merely wish to keep a balanced perspective, something becoming harder and harder to manage here:-)

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Edited by: Peter Rossa May 5, 12, 18:21 #535

A good book to read on this subject is "The Holocaust Industry" written by Norman Finkelstein, a Jewish son of Auschwitz survivors , the book is full of documentation that points to the whole holocaust being a Jewish moneymaking scheme where nearly none of the actual monies gathered, actually get into the hands of genuine holocaust survivors, but into the big Jewish agencies and lawyers.

It goes into great detail about the Swiss banks in the 90s where this industry demanded an outrageous sum of money from the Swiss banks, even when Swiss records proved it to be so, but the Swiss banks where threatened with an American boycott if they failed to pay this "blackmail money", the book noted at the end that Poland was to be their next target.

Other interesting points this book brings up is that according to his own parents who where at Auschwitz, most of what is written about it is "a load of nonsense".
The book also documents the reported number of Holocaust survivors that increase each year to the point now where if such Jewish evidence can be believed, not a single Jew could have actually died in the Holocaust.

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May 5, 12, 19:54 #536

Peter Rossa:

A good book to read on this subject is "The Holocaust Industry" written by Norman Finkelstein, a Jewish son of Auschwitz survivors , the book is full of documentation that points to the whole holocaust being a Jewish moneymaking scheme where nearly none of the actual monies gathered, actually get into the hands of genuine holocaust survivors, but into the big Jewish agencies and lawyers.

I didn't read the book but watched an expose on TV about a year ago. It was very interesting. All the big Jewish organizations have disowned him as one of their own.

p3undoneThreads: 10 Posts: 345 Joined: Jan 12, 12 ♂ [Moderator]	May 5, 12, 20:03 #537
If they feel that Poland should pay restitution,under their logic why not everyone?Do they honestly accuse Poland for what Hitler initiated there?

jon357Threads: - Posts: 621 Joined: Mar 15, 12 ♂	May 5, 12, 21:01 #538
Peter Rossa: the book is full of documentation that points to A total fraud. The only moneymaking scheme is that book.

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May 6, 12, 10:51 #539

jon357:

A total fraud

Well to make the claim stick, you have to provide something more than baseless accusations. Who are you to question his integrity?

jon357:

The only moneymaking scheme is that book.

How is the Jewish community NOT making money from victim status? No complaints from you about that, eh?
Finkelstein may be making money from his book but he was doing just fine financially before making his stand against the Holocaust Industry. His background certainly puts him in the category of those who could have profited from toeing the line.

Could it possibly be that Finkelstein is simply telling the truth?

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Edited by: jon357 May 6, 12, 13:17 #540

Foreigner4:

Who are you to question his integrity?

Someone who has read the book and can see what errant nonsense his spurious claims are. If you want a second opinion though:

"this is not research; it isn't even political literature... I don't even think it should be reviewed or critiqued as a legitimate book." Israel Guttman, Chairman of the Scientific Council of Yad Vashem, Advisor to the Polish government on Jewish affairs, Judaism and Holocaust commemoration

"a most trivial book, which appeals to easily aroused anti-Semitic prejudices." Hans Mommsen, Professor of History at the University of Bonn

"trash" Peter Novick, Professor of History at the University of Chicago

Foreigner4:

How is the Jewish community NOT making money from victim status? No complaints from you about that, eh?

Don't you think they'd rather 6 million people weren't murdered because they were of that community and that any property restitution is simply recovering their own property?

Foreigner4:

Finkelstein may be making money from his book but he was doing just fine financially before making his stand

He'd actually lost a fortune through successful libel actions against him.

Basically a conspiracy theorist, and as a person who describes himself as "an old-fashioned communist" one with unsavoury political views.

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