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Is Józef Pi³sudski the king of modern Poles?


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jasinskiThreads: 11
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Edited by: jasinski   Jan 24, 10, 05:20 / #1
in spirit?

Polonius3Threads: 662
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  Jan 24, 10, 10:06 / #2
Today's Poland could use their Pi³sudski! PiS tried to sweep out the corruption and post-commite footholds as part of their IV RP programme, but lacked the majority to push it through.
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  Jan 24, 10, 10:39 / #3
Now the king is Kaczynski.
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  Jan 31, 10, 08:05 / #4
Pilsudski no king, just Pole who love his people, and he had very big balls and a bigger heart. Actually, a man 'after God's own heart'.

Probably many young Poles do not know who he is...They would ask 'Is he in a metal band or does he do techno?'...Tell them 'He invented the cell phone'.
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  Jan 31, 10, 10:36 / #5
Actually, he was a Lithuanian.
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Edited by: jeden   Jan 31, 10, 11:27 / #6
Actually, he was a Lithuanian.

bulshit,

He was Pole... He was born on todey`s Lithuenia lands. that`s all
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  Jan 31, 10, 12:14 / #7
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Józef_Pi³sudski#endnote_bnone

He considered himself a Lithuanian raised in Polish culture, he never called himself an ethnic Pole.
bullfrogThreads: 4
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  Jan 31, 10, 12:45 / #8
vetala:
He considered himself a Lithuanian raised in Polish culture, he never called himself an ethnic Pole.

Many famous Poles were not "pure Poles" but had some foreign element in them. Apart from Pilsudksi, see above, Mickiewicz was also born in Lithunia, same for Nobel Prize winners Cz Milosz; FR Chopin's father was French..
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  Jan 31, 10, 15:02 / #9
bullfrog
Also Kopernik's mother was Prussian, Wit Stwosz was born under the name Veit Stoß and Matejko was Czech. Most of our kings and queens weren't ethnically Polish either. Still they were better Poles than most ethnic Poles.
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  Jan 31, 10, 15:10 / #10
vetala:
Still they were better Poles than most ethnic Poles.

What about 'they were as good Poles as ethnic Poles'?
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  Jan 31, 10, 15:23 / #11
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J%C3%B3zef_Pi%C5%82sudski, some background on the man. He was unsuccessful in getting Lithuania onboard but had many other successes and his heart was what won people over.
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Edited by: Bratwurst Boy   Jan 31, 10, 16:21 / #12
vetala:
Wit Stwosz was born under the name Veit Stoß

Not only born, he lived under that name...why is it with you guys giving Germans polish names???? ;)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veit_Stoss

Veit Stoss was a leading German sculptor, mostly in wood, whose career covered the transition between the late Gothic and the Northern Renaissance.
...
Stoss was born at Horb am Neckar before 1450; his exact date of birth is unknown though it may have been in 1447. Nothing is known certainly of his life before 1473 when he moved to Nuremberg in Franconia and married Barbara Hertz. ....


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Edited by: vetala   Jan 31, 10, 16:27 / #13
Bratwurst Boy
Would you prefer 'Brzêczyszczykiewicz'? ;)

Bzibzioh:
What about 'they were as good Poles as ethnic Poles'?

Better than Feliks Dzier¿yñski at least.
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  Jan 31, 10, 16:27 / #14
Bratwurst Boy:
why is it with you guys giving Germans polish names???? ;)

looks classy on a business card..
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  Jan 31, 10, 16:34 / #15
vetala:
Would you prefer 'Brzêczyszczykiewicz'? ;)

*get's knot in tongue to read out loud*

:)
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  Jan 31, 10, 17:07 / #16
vetala:
Better than Feliks Dzier¿yñski at least.

In comparison to Feliks anyone look like outstanding citizen.
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  Jan 31, 10, 17:40 / #17
Define modern. The guy died in 1935. That's modern by Polish standards, right? ;)
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  Jan 31, 10, 20:47 / #18
Pi³sudski was calling himself a "Lithuanian" in the same manner as every single Pole born in the Lithuanian region was calling himself a Lithuanian.

The name was to call a region of birth, as for his nationality he was from a Polish noble family, with a Polish coat of arms and a long tradition of pro-Polish patriotic activities and he considered himself a Pole which he repeteadly said in newspapers and in the radio as well as privately.

How about you stop lying Vetala, its not the first time you're taking advantage of the mods being a bunch of fockwits to insult and twist the facts to fit your little anti-Polish outlook you smelly twat.

@BB

The same reason why we call Germans with Polish names is because you call Poles like Kopernik with German ones,we're almost as chauvinistic as Germans, almost :)))
Bratwurst BoyThreads: 5
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  Jan 31, 10, 20:48 / #19
Sokrates:
The same reason why we call Germans with Polish names is because you call Poles like Kopernik with German ones,we're almost as chauvinistic as Germans, almost :)))

Oh please...don't be so modest! :):):)
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  Jan 31, 10, 20:54 / #20
Bratwurst Boy:
Oh please...don't be so modest! :):):)

Whats to be modest about? You're attempting to claim Polish achievements as your own and you bytch about Poles giving Germans Polish names?
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  Jan 31, 10, 21:01 / #21
Sokrates:
You're attempting to claim Polish achievements as your own and you bytch about Poles giving Germans Polish names?

What polish achievements?
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  Jan 31, 10, 21:05 / #22
Bratwurst Boy:
why is it with you guys giving Germans polish names???? ;)

What is it with you guys giving Polish cities German names???? :0
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  Jan 31, 10, 21:14 / #23
Bratwurst Boy:
What polish achievements?

Lets see, among some of your better ones "Kraków was so prosperous because it was half German."

"Kopernik was German because his uncle wanted him to be."
"Poland didnt won at Vienna, it was the Germans."
"Poznañ is a natively German city."

There's more if we bother to dig except its not ad hominem shooting gallery.
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Edited by: Bratwurst Boy   Jan 31, 10, 21:22 / #24
Sokrates:
Lets see, among some of your better ones "Kraków was so prosperous because it was half German."

That could be as at that time it was the German merchants who made Krakow and other towns prosperous.

Sokrates:
"Kopernik was German because his uncle wanted him to be."

Well, he was at least half German..

Sokrates:
"Poland didnt won at Vienna, it was the Germans."

I never said it was only the Germans...I always said it was a joint venture, an alliance who broke the Turks neck...nobody of us could had done alone.
Compared to your "...it was only the Poles!"
(Especially as you flat out deny the brave viennese citizens their honor, who held out for long time, starving, never gave up)

Sokrates:
"Poznañ is a natively German city."

I don't remember this one! *scratches head*

And I don't know what this has to do with "Wit" Veit Stoß a clearly german artists who did alot of cool work for now-polish towns but still is and was a German. ;)

...
moved to Krakow, the royal capital of Poland, at the invitation of the German merchant community, who commissioned him to produce the enormous polychrome wooden Altar of Veit Stoss at St Mary's Church in Krakow.

This was not completed until 1489, and was the largest triptych of its time and, like his other large works, required a large workshop including specialized painters and gilders.[2] Other important works from his period in Poland were the tomb of Casimir IV in Wawel Cathedral, the marble tomb of Zbigniew Olesnicki in Gniezno, and the altar of Saint Stanislaus.

German-polish cooperation as it's best! :)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krakow#Golden_age

....
During the reign of Casimir IV, various artists came to work and live in Kraków, and Johann Haller established a printing press in the city[20] after Kasper Straube had printed the Calendarium Cracoviense, the first work printed in Poland, in 1473.[21][22]

In 1520, the most famous church bell in Poland, named Zygmunt after Sigismund I of Poland, was cast by Hans Behem.[23] At that time, Hans Dürer, a younger brother of Albrecht Dürer, was Sigismund's court painter.[24] Hans von Kulmbach made altarpieces for several churches.[25]

:)

The city was almost entirely destroyed during the Mongol invasions of 1241, 1259 and 1287.[9]
It was rebuilt and incorporated in 1257, based on the Magdeburg law, with tax benefits and trade privileges for its citizens.[10] These citizens were German settlers who moved in during the Ostsiedlung, and who constituted a majority of burghers in contemporary Polish and Bohemian towns.[11]

The 1257 foundation decree issued by Boles³aw V the Chaste was unusual insofar that it explicitly excluded the local population.[11] The older Royal fort Wawel was connected to the new town, built on its northern side around the market square, by its former suburbium (Okol).[12]

Germans constituted the majority during the 14th century, and became Polonized in the 16th century.[13]



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Edited by: Bzibzioh   Jan 31, 10, 21:33 / #25
Bratwurst Boy:
and the altar of Saint Stanislaus.

No, not the main altar at Wawel Cathedral. It was done by Tomas Dolabella or Marcin Blechowski.

Artists were traveling circus back then; whoever commissioned them they went there. So were Italian, Dutch and English artists. It's for Poland benefit that those merchants, princesses and kings were able to finance those projects.
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  Jan 31, 10, 21:39 / #26
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altarpiece_of_Veit_Stoss

The altarpiece of Veit Stoss (Polish: O³tarz Wita Stwosza, German: Krakauer Hochaltar), also St. Mary's altar (O³tarz Mariacki), is the largest Gothic altarpiece in the World and a national treasure of Poland.[1]
It is located behind the main altar of St. Mary's Church, Kraków, Poland.

What do you mean?
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  Jan 31, 10, 21:45 / #27
Bratwurst Boy:
What do you mean?

He did main altar at St. Mary church but not the one in Wawel Cathedral, as you said in your quote.
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  Jan 31, 10, 21:48 / #28
Bzibzioh:
He did main altar at St. Mary church but not the one in Wawel Cathedral, as you said in your quote.

Maybe there is a misunderstanding...there is mentioned a tomb only..
....were the tomb of Casimir IV in Wawel Cathedral...


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  Jan 31, 10, 21:50 / #29
Bratwurst Boy:
his was not completed until 1489, and was the largest triptych of its time and, like his other large works, required a large workshop including specialized painters and gilders.[2] Other important works from his period in Poland were the tomb of Casimir IV in Wawel Cathedral, the marble tomb of Zbigniew Olesnicki in Gniezno, and the altar of Saint Stanislaus.

From your quote
Bratwurst BoyThreads: 5
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Edited by: Bratwurst Boy   Jan 31, 10, 21:51 / #30
Bzibzioh:
From your quote

Is there only one??? ;)

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14310a.htm

..... His earliest work (1477) is the celebrated altar of the Blessed Virgin in the Church of Our Lady at Cracow, which is made in three parts, as an altar with wings. In the centre is seen the almost life-size figure of the Mother of God as she sinks dying into the arms of an Apostle.
Another altar of his in this church has reliefs depicting six scenes in the life of St. Stanislaus. The fine qualities of this work, especially the animation of the portrayal and the effective composition, obtained for him in 1492 the commission of making the tomb of King Casimir IV in the Cathedral of Cracow....



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