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Is Józef Piłsudski the king of modern Poles?

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Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂	Feb 4, 10, 22:55 #61
TIT: just before partitions there was unbelievable amount of Germans who became Poles just like the ones who are descendants of later ( XVIII ) wave who bravely fought Nazi Germany in Polish ranks Any links to those "unbelievable" amounts? And there had been likewise lot's of "skis" who fought bravely FOR Nazi-Germany...

TITThreads: 9 Posts: 353 Joined: Jan 7, 10 ♂	Edited by: TIT Feb 4, 10, 22:58 #62
Bratwurst Boy: Bratwurst BoyTh I don't give a brat to give you links. Do your job yourself on your own. No skis, German names.

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂	Feb 4, 10, 23:01 #63
TIT: No skis, German names. Lot's of 'skis in Germany....long history of polish immigration to Germany over the centuries! Additionally Polonia in Germany is the biggest in Europe...

ExiledThreads: 5 Posts: 729 Joined: Jan 17, 10 ♂	Feb 4, 10, 23:01 #64
Yes,probably the Germans have built a lot in Poland.And there are regional differences in appearance of polish people according to city which now I have come to understand they come from some certain mixes.

TITThreads: 9 Posts: 353 Joined: Jan 7, 10 ♂	Edited by: TIT Feb 4, 10, 23:03 #65
Bratwurst Boy: Bratwurst BoyThreads: 4 and compare them to the UK one :) I don't talk about numbers of course ;) just look at websites, you will see who is the ally

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂	Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Feb 4, 10, 23:05 #66
TIT: and compare them to the UK one :) I don't talk about numbers of course ;) I'm not quite sure what you are talking about in the first place...;) But I would prefer if you would bring some evidence like links and such and not only unfounded opinons, thank you!

TITThreads: 9 Posts: 353 Joined: Jan 7, 10 ♂	Feb 4, 10, 23:07 #67
do your job

jasinskiThreads: 15 Posts: 94 Joined: Nov 19, 09 ♂	Edited by: jasinski Feb 6, 10, 05:36 #68
you are so full of **** lithuanian. his whole purpose and drive was to restore a independent poland that is what pilsudski was all about. so what does that say about his feelings(if there ever were any) towards lithuania? he never had any. other than annexing it.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,160 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Feb 6, 10, 11:11 #69
Some would say he was just an imperialistic terrorist who personally profitted from killing.

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Edited by: joepilsudski Feb 9, 10, 19:27 #70

Listen, an interesting discussion on an important man...I see some claim 'he was actually Lithuanian'...Well, then why did the newly independent country not take the name 'Lithuania'?

You know, all over the world, and from the beginning of things, different tribes or ethnics mix...It is what you IDENTIFY as that counts...Pilsudski born in what some call a 'Lithuanian' town, who cares?

Pilsudski the founder of modern Polish nation.

Or perhaps, the liberator of the Polish nation.

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Feb 9, 10, 21:16 #71

joepilsudski:

Pilsudski the founder of modern Polish nation.

Or perhaps, the liberator of the Polish nation.

I am sure Pilsudki did a lot for the newly independent Poland and is rightly revered. But I must say that I found a little irritating that Poland oscillates between an incapacity to self govern efficiently during centuries (liberum veto et al) and holding in reverence characters like Pilsudski who, if not dictators, were at least on the authoritarian side (it is also troubling that Pilsudski's opponent, R Dmowski, not a strong democrat and probably an antisemite has his name given to a rondo in Warsaw which is the crossroad of the cities' 2 main avenues...)

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Edited by: joepilsudski Feb 10, 10, 10:07 #72

bullfrog:

Your observations on Polish government are near the target...Nut, let me say this: If you are a Pole, do not het caught up onto 'anti-semite' nonsense and rhetoric...It shows that someone else does your thinking for you...Poles host Jews for hundreds of years, were one of the few countries that did not expel them...So, a Pole cannot hold an opinion that conflicts with the Jewish worldview?...Nonsense...I say this in reference to Dmowski...Now, I criticize Dmowski, although of course I obly know about him from written material,because he thought
music was unimportant...This I hold against him...Not any remarks he made that Jews don't care for...Tough beans.

Also, on 'democracy'...Democracy today means 'who has the most money and control of the media'...The definition in a nutshell.

Stalin said: 'It doesn't matter who casts the vote: what matters is who counts the votes'.

Today what matters is who controls the media...And, yes, who counts the votes, also...Stalin made some good points in his way to hell.

Poland still hasn't faced up to Jewish psychology...You complain about a street named, or a memorial after Dmowski...In Israel they build monuments to Rabbi Baruch Golstein who walked into a mosque full of men at evening prayer, and machine gunned them in the back.
Some 40+ killed, 90+ wounded...Does this offend you?

hague1cameronThreads: - Posts: 98 Joined: Feb 8, 10 ♂	Feb 10, 10, 12:00 #73
That wouldn't be the time when the Germans slaughtered each in the 30 years war and looked to Poland (The country that guaranteed its citizens religious toleration in its law) as a place of refuge would it?

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Edited by: marqoz Feb 11, 10, 21:01 #74

Bratwurst Boy:

Do you really believe Veit Stoss and those printers were in Krakau just accidentally?

Most of them just escaped from their ugly, overpopulated and claustrophobic statelets, full of violence to exercise their right of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness in more friendly immense kingdom of opportunities. Just as in America later...

The other, masters in their arts and skills Germans, Italians, French, were just headhunted by Polish monarchs and magnates.

OK with it?

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂	Feb 11, 10, 21:04 #75
marqoz: OK with it? Well...Stoss at least returned to his ugly statelet later...(he was forced to do so of course). But else...why not! Oki :)

marqozThreads: - Posts: 218 Joined: Feb 4, 10 ♂	Edited by: marqoz Feb 11, 10, 21:44 #76
BB. Stoss Veit from Nämberch was a headhunted one - young and promising artisan, which made some money and coined name in Kraków and Gniezno.

joepilsudskiThreads: 44 Posts: 2,521 Joined: Apr 27, 07 ♂	Feb 15, 10, 21:42 #77
Now you see why Crow wastes his breath with talk of Slavic unity.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,160 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Feb 15, 10, 21:53 #78
Much hinges on his alleged meeting with the French as a preventive step. To this day, nobody has been able to unearth this document after trawling several archives. Had he done that, it would have been a masterstroke but the jury is out.

marqozThreads: - Posts: 218 Joined: Feb 4, 10 ♂	Edited by: marqoz Feb 21, 10, 11:22 #79
Seanus: nobody has been able to unearth this document Yes, unfortunately, there is no direct evidence. There are only clues and hints: one letter mentioning French refusal of "something", some trails of German counteractions, some memoirs, changing foreign minister from pacifist one to more devoted one, the Ensign Incident in Gdańsk... Dariusz Baliszewski wrote about it

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Feb 28, 10, 16:52 #80

Seanus:

Many writers write about Iran and most of it is absolute nonsense!

What does that have to do with anything?
The hypothesis about preventive action is quite plausible. And if you treat seriously diplomacy language it was at least to fly a kite if France wish to stop German remilitarization. The answer was negative and immediately after that new FM Beck started the equal distance policy with Germany and Soviets.

It's not a Michael Moore post-modernistic rubbish goulash or red-green gobbledygook on Man Made Great Global Warming.

TrevekThreads: 30 Posts: 2,088 Joined: May 21, 08 ♂	Edited by: Trevek Feb 28, 10, 23:06 #81
Polonius3: PiS tried to sweep out the corruption and post-commite footholds as part of their IV RP programme, but lacked the majority to push it through. and, ironically, used a lot of commie-style tactics to do it. Seanus: s heart was what won people over. Isn't his heart now in Lithuania ?

jasinskiThreads: 15 Posts: 94 Joined: Nov 19, 09 ♂	Mar 7, 10, 05:11 #82
pilsudski wanted to annex lithuania. he fought for polish independence. krautwurst boy needs to pick up a book once and awhile. and not mein kamph for once.

Mr GrunwaldThreads: 34 Posts: 2,354 Joined: Dec 16, 08 ♂	Mar 8, 10, 06:08 #83
jasinski: pilsudski wanted to annex lithuania LOL If he wanted he would do it. He himself told his generals to leave rest of Lithuania alone as he didn't want Poland to be seen as an occupant of Lithuanians!

jasinskiThreads: 15 Posts: 94 Joined: Nov 19, 09 ♂	Edited by: jasinski Mar 21, 10, 08:07 #84
yeah i know. his intentions werent hostile towards lithuania. probably more empathetic. my apoligies.

plk123Threads: 30 Posts: 6,410 Joined: Aug 29, 07 ♂	Edited by: plk123 Aug 21, 10, 09:19 #85
jasinski: Is Józef Piłsudski the king of modern Poles? was a de facto dictator..

jasinskiThreads: 15 Posts: 94 Joined: Nov 19, 09 ♂	Aug 26, 10, 05:56 #86
he was a reluctant dictator.

Mr GrunwaldThreads: 34 Posts: 2,354 Joined: Dec 16, 08 ♂	Aug 27, 10, 02:59 #87
plk123: was a de facto dictator.. Poland was under a dictatorship from 1926 but I must say, it was one of the most democratical dictatorships ive heard of :)

plk123Threads: 30 Posts: 6,410 Joined: Aug 29, 07 ♂	Aug 28, 10, 16:38 #88
jasinski: he was a reluctant dictator. if he was reluctant, he wouldn't have done it.. Mr Grunwald: Poland was under a dictatorship from 1926 but I must say, it was one of the most democratical dictatorships ive heard of :) that statement make no sense.. a dictator is a dictator.. nothing democratic about it.

Mr GrunwaldThreads: 34 Posts: 2,354 Joined: Dec 16, 08 ♂	Aug 30, 10, 00:27 #89
plk123: that statement make no sense.. a dictator is a dictator.. nothing democratic about it. totalitarian state, dictatorships.. there are variation... There was a president.. government... more democratic then I would thought it to be! Even it's own Jewish "senate" if I don't recall

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Sep 3, 10, 08:13 #90

he was a son of the old poland the commonwealth. but at the same time he was trying to restore a strong poland( a country that had lost its independednce and its very borders for over a hundred years). he tried to let the politicians(when he stepped down) work it out but they could not and he reluctantly had to take control again. it was a question of nation self preservation and had little to do with morals. and nothing to do with tyranny.