Maus by Vladek Spiegelman

♂

Edited by: joepilsudski Nov 11, 10, 04:05 #61

1jola:

What it is missing is the biggest threat to hiding Jews - collaborating Jews. In Warsaw, there was a large network of Jews working directly for Gestapo

Jews collaborated with Germans not only in Poland, but in Germany also...Many Nazis were part Jewish, top ones, who gave orders...The most blatantly obvious example of collaboration can be found in the book 'The Transfer Agreement'...Hitler, and the Nazi leadership say the founding of the state of Israel as the creation of an ally in the Mid-East...Both the Nazis and Zionists shared a dream that each nation would be 'racially pure' and, when this was achieved, there would be no reason not to collaborate.

To illustrate this point, the 'Mustafa' or Islamic leader of Jerusalem spent the better part of a year in Berlin trying to convince Hitler to ally with Palestinians and other Arabs to create a Middle Eastern ally for the Reich...The 'Mustafa' was, in fact, Yassar Arafat's uncle...Hitler let him cool his heels, then told him flatly 'no way'...This because the Germans wanted a Jews only state in Palestine...The Jews were to be their ally against British control in Middle East...When Rommel lost at El Alamein in North Africa, this dream was put to rest, since Germans no longer had chance of controlling Suez Canal, thereby controlling the Levant.

♂

Dec 16, 10, 17:19 #62

The comic is a good read, it's a personal story and we should not be insulted, just because an old man who went through a lot in his life disliked our glorious nation.

The animal I would like Poles to see portrayed as is the cow. Beeing milked by the jewish rats fot centuries, just a personal biased oppinion ;)

(spoilers)

I don't buy Art that he did use the pig character in good will to portray Poles positively, mentioning Miss Piggy as a positive role model. As I see it, Vladek disliked Poles and Art just doesn't want to addmit it.

The whole comic is told as a personal story of Vladek. The only Pole beeing portrayed completly positively is the priest in Auschwitz who is called to be "he wasn't jewish, but very intelligent". So even the characterization of the only completly positively portrayed Pole can be seen as insulting the rest.

On the other hand for example he did portray the jews as they were too maybe without euphemize but maybe unknowing that it puts them in bad light as cowardly characters who did not support their country. At least those Vladek belonged to did not identify themselfes as Poles but as jews first, they used tricks to stay away from army conscription. Vladek even did not shoot at the Germans when the war broke out until he was ordered by an officer to do so.

So why was it like that? Because christian Poles did not accept jewish neighbours? Thats why the jews kept to themselfes? Or did the jews think of themselfes as the chosen people? Or some of that and some of that?

HarryThreads: 62 Posts: 8,508 Joined: May 2, 07 ♂ [Suspended]	Dec 16, 10, 20:57 #63
krakowiak: the cow. Beeing milked by the jewish rats Interesting that you are so unintelligent you think that rats are able to milk a cow, such retardation goes a long way to explaining your anti-semitism.

SerniksistaThreads: - Posts: 9 Joined: Dec 14, 10 ♀	Dec 16, 10, 21:15 #64
I think the Nazis should have been portrayed as pigs, since they were as ludicrously power mad as the pigs in Orwell's "Animal Farm".

♂

Dec 18, 10, 15:41 #65

krakowiak:

So why was it like that? Because christian Poles did not accept jewish neighbours? Thats why the jews kept to themselfes? Or did the jews think of themselfes as the chosen people? Or some of that and some of that?

You Sir are completly right with your last statement, it's "some of that and some of that" that is right and logically correct. You are a benefit to humanity and your name will be remembered for generations to come.

I don't see any indications of antisemitism going along with the content of your comment. Your sarcastic reference is well noted and only a complete idiot would not realize its geniality.

You are really a man between men unlike the others in this forum excluding Socrates whom I also like a lot!

Jeremy	Apr 17, 11, 19:51 #66
Maybe he wanted to show that they were slaughtered. Honestly, I don't see any scenario where the depiction of Poles as pigs is not derogatory. I think its very insensitive to portray them this way, as even if there were a number of Nazi-collaborators, there were so many innocent others that perished.

SokratesThreads: 19 Posts: 4,464 Joined: Jan 19, 09 ♂ [Suspended]	Apr 17, 11, 23:15 #67
krakowiak: I don't buy Art that he did use the pig character in good will to portray Poles positively, Thats like saying "i used sht to portray people in good will" Spiegelman is an anti-polish sht. krakowiak: it's a personal story and we should not be insulted Its not, Spiegelman invented it.

crashbang

Jun 2, 11, 18:36 #68

Okay, just came across this. It doesn't matter how the Poles were portrayed, nor the Jews, nor the Germans (some of whom would've been nazis, some not, all cats) what matters is that the holocaust in history reduces these people, all of different characters, to three mere factions of jews poles and nazis without individual identity - the holocaust overshadowed each and everyone of them.

vladek numerous times alludes to how everyone was out for themselves, especially when times were hard (the jewish council for example, giving up the old to the nazi's) it is not as black and white as the colours of the pages imply. it is simply truth from a perspective, and what animals each race were has little to do with it other then a dogs chase cats, cats chase mice, pigs are neutral sort of way. and even then, none of those apply as a whole to any of the peoples involved. it's not a simple topic.

joepilsudskiThreads: 44 Posts: 2,529 Joined: Apr 27, 07 ♂	Jun 2, 11, 20:53 #69
Here's a better one by my Philly homeboy R.Crumb: http://www.honestmediatoday.com/God_damn_Jews1.htm Another good Crumb cartoon: http://www.heretical.com/miscella/rcnoa.html

CSB	Jun 5, 11, 07:37 #70
I really sorry for the people and why is this things happened like seriously thats sad and makes mi angry at the same time..

POLAND . The Unofficial Guide	Unanswered \| Archives
POLAND . The Unofficial Guide	Poles in Poland and Abroad	Witamy, Guest \| PF Members \| Gold Members

Home \| Unanswered \| Archives \| Random \| Statistics	Time in Poland: 18:20 / May 26
About Us \| Contact Us \| Rules, Privacy \| Poland Advertising	© 2005-12 PolishForums.com