No Nazi puppet regime in Poland?

Polonius3Threads: 1,005 Posts: 4,834 Joined: Apr 11, 08 ♂	Edited by: Moderator Oct 1, 10, 22:11 #31
For those interested, here is a list of the Nazis' 'Polish' collaborators: http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kategoria:Polscy_kolaboranci_III_Rzeszy in english: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Polish_Nazi_collaborators

nottThreads: 6 Posts: 1,271 Joined: Jun 2, 10 ♂	Oct 1, 10, 22:20 #32
Polonius3: here is a list of the Nazis' 'Polish' collaborators: all 20 of them... :))

♂

Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Oct 1, 10, 22:22 #33

Problem is if they really count as collaborateurs in the common sense.

...
The history of Poles in the Wehrmacht, the unified armed forces of Nazi Germany, began with the German invasion of Poland in 1939. More than 400,000 citizens of the Polish Second Republic served in the Wehrmacht,[1] and not many in Kriegsmarine and Waffen SS. The majority of these Polish citizens were Poles of German extraction (Volksdeutsche), Silesians, Kasubians, and Masurians. Some of other Polish citizens of Ukrainian, Belarusian, Russian, and Lithuanian origin serve in German military units, both in Wehrmacht and the Waffen SS.

Of course they supported the enemy of the nation they were citizens of but patriotic Poles did the same during the partitions, fighting against Prussia for France for example.

If those non-ethnical polish citizens felt allegiance to Germany I don't think it can be seen as collaboration or betrayal...IMHO....or what do Poles think?

♂

Oct 1, 10, 22:31 #34

Bratwurst Boy:

If those non-ethnical Polish citizens felt allegiance to Germany I don't think it can be seen as collaboration or betrayal...IMHO....or what do Poles think?

I think... could be seen as betrayal, as they were Polish citizens. But in a rather legalistic sense.

Collaboration is reserved for doubtless Poles.

And I still have that question of Volksliste III in Silesia. I heard, from witnesses, that Silesians were 'enlisted' automatically. You are positive about that absolutely voluntary thing?

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Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Oct 1, 10, 22:36 #35

nott:

And I still have that question of Volksliste III in Silesia. I heard, from witnesses, that Silesians were 'enlisted' automatically. You are positive about that absolutely voluntary thing?

Yes, as there was no automatically enlisting.

In the beginning 39/40/41 it might even have been quite hard to get onto the Liste I, you had to show papers and stuff.
But in the end they took really everybody...here also some not so voluntarily "recruiting" surely happend.

Not to mention that Silesia itself was splitted, the upper part with a majority of Poles and the lower part with a majoritiy of Germans...to treat Silesia as one just wouldn't had made much sense.

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Edited by: nott Oct 1, 10, 22:52 #36

Bratwurst Boy:

here also some not so voluntarily "recruiting" surely happend.

could be this. And there is some info of Silesians deserting from Wehrmacht, so like independent confirmation.

Bratwurst Boy:

Not to mention that Silesia itself was splitted, the upper part with a majority of Poles and the lower part with a majoritiy of Germans...to treat Silesia as one just wouldn't had made much sense.

Right. I was speaking about Upper Silesia.

Edit:

Szczepaniak from Kattowitz-Sud... I am from there :)

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂	Oct 1, 10, 23:06 #37
nott: Szczepaniak from Kattowitz-Sud... I am from there :) The world is small! :)

TorqThreads: 65 Posts: 4,024 Joined: Apr 10, 09 MEMBER ♂	Edited by: Torq Oct 1, 10, 23:11 #38
nott: Szczepaniak from Kattowitz-Sud How could Germans put a fellow named Szczepaniak on a Deutsche volksliste is beyond me! I can only imagine the pain of the German office clerk who had to write it to prepare the ausweis :)

nottThreads: 6 Posts: 1,271 Joined: Jun 2, 10 ♂	Oct 1, 10, 23:15 #39
Torq: How could Germans put a fellow named Szczepaniak on a Deutsche volskliste is beyond me! But see the first name: Franz. Full-blooded German, innit :) Frantzischek. Sounds German enough to me. Or Czech...

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂	Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Oct 1, 10, 23:16 #40
Torq: How could Germans put a fellow named Szczepaniak on a Deutsche volksliste is beyond me! Oh god thank you for this link Torqi...I searched for it for awhile now...always good for a laugh! Grzegorz Brzęczyszczykiewicz

TorqThreads: 65 Posts: 4,024 Joined: Apr 10, 09 MEMBER ♂	Oct 1, 10, 23:20 #41
nott: Franz. Full-blooded German, innit :) Sure. Just like Franz Smuda ;) Bratwurst Boy: Oh god thank you for this link Torqi...I searched for it for awhile now...always good for a laugh! Yes - an oldskool Polish comedy. I watched it about a hundred times when I was a kid :)

pawianThreads: 90 Posts: 5,395 Joined: May 30, 08 ♂	Oct 1, 10, 23:23 #42
Polonius3: was there ever such an option? To the best of my knowledge, there wasn`t. Hitler never thought of creating a Polish puppet regime. If he had tried, there would have been volunteers from pre-war Polish fascist parties.

nottThreads: 6 Posts: 1,271 Joined: Jun 2, 10 ♂	Edited by: nott Oct 1, 10, 23:34 #43
Bratwurst Boy: :) you may not know it, but Brunner had quite a crowd of fans in Poland. If you know what I mean :) edit: pawian: If he had tried, there would have been volunteers from pre-war Polish fascist parties. Not quite sure. Fascist meant nationalistic, not pro-Hitler. Like ONR.

♂

Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Oct 1, 10, 23:47 #44

nott:

Fascist meant nationalistic, not pro-Hitler. Like ONR.

Fascists in Spain, in Holland, in France in GB and even as far as the USA etc. had been fans of Hitler...they took his national-socialism as ideal for their countries too...it was really a widespread alliance.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism

...
Fascists believe that a nation is an organic community that requires strong leadership, singular collective identity, and the will and ability to commit violence and wage war in order to keep the nation strong.[15]
They claim that culture is created by the collective national society and its state, that cultural ideas are what give individuals identity, and thus they reject individualism.[15] Viewing the nation as an integrated collective community, they see pluralism as a dysfunctional aspect of society, and justify a totalitarian state as a means to represent the nation in its entirety.[16][17]

They were nationalists first but in following Hitler and in helping to make Nazi-Germany victorious
they hoped to be victorious at home too.
European and american Fascists saw Hitler as their best bet.

nottThreads: 6 Posts: 1,271 Joined: Jun 2, 10 ♂	Oct 1, 10, 23:50 #45
Bratwurst Boy: Fascists in Spain, in Holland, in France in GB and even as far as the USA etc. had been fans of Hitler... But Poles are, you know, different :) I mean, German aircraft didn't shoot at refugees on the roads of Spain, Holland, etc.

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