Old communist leaders still buried in Merit Cemetery in Powązki

POLAND . The Unofficial Guide

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Apr 23, 11, 19:17 #1

Another thread by Mr Warszawski and a few posts there Poland's 1945 - 1989 under communism or during socialism?

reminded me that long ago I planned to discuss this issue.

I visited Powązki last year for the first time in my life. As usual, I took many photos. I was really surprised and even disgusted to see the tombs of communist rulers of Poland who, as in case of Bierut and others, were murderers, directly responsible for the death of many Polish patriots who opposed communism after WW2. Isn`t it an outrageous scandal they are still buried at the same site with people who fought and gave life for Poland, especially Warsaw insurgents?

Bierut

Ochab

Żymierski

Gomułka

convexThreads: 46 Posts: 7,185 Joined: Nov 25, 09 ♂	Apr 23, 11, 19:29 #2
pawian: Isn`t it an outrageous scandal they are still buried at the same site with people who fought and gave life for Poland, especially Warsaw insurgents? They're no longer an issue, no reason bother the dead.

pawianThreads: 90 Posts: 5,395 Joined: May 30, 08 ♂	Edited by: pawian Apr 23, 11, 19:35 #3
convex: They're no longer an issue, no reason bother the dead. Nazis were tried and convicted. Nazism is prohibited today. Communist murderers were never tried for their crimes. By keeping their graves in the Merit Cemetery we symbolically agree to the evil they did.

♂

Edited by: Seanus Apr 23, 11, 19:35 #4

I see your point, convex, but there is no getting away from symbolism. It's like when a Japanese PM goes to a shrine to commemorate the war dead. Junichiro Koizumi often did it during his tenure and it infuriated the Chinese. We should also judge sth in the context of the subject. Poles have never been known for letting bygones be bygones/sleeping dogs lie.

The bottom line is that they have their own followers for whatever reasons and that should be respected too within reason.

Pawian makes a fair point. Nuremberg soon put paid to Nazism but where were the trials for the 'komunystycznych mass morderców' that Szczery of the group Honor sang about?

pawianThreads: 90 Posts: 5,395 Joined: May 30, 08 ♂	Apr 23, 11, 19:36 #5
Seanus: The bottom line is that they have their own followers for whatever reasons and that should be respected too within reason. Yes, can you see those flowers on Gomułka`s tomb? :):):)

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Apr 23, 11, 19:38 #6
He ordered them in advance, Pawian ;) ;) It was in his will ;)

pawianThreads: 90 Posts: 5,395 Joined: May 30, 08 ♂	Edited by: pawian Apr 23, 11, 19:39 #7
convex: no reason bother the dead. But it would bother me to see the communist murderers` graves if I belonged to the family who comes to the cemetery to remember the patriots. Seanus: He ordered them in advance, Pawian ;) ;) It was in his will ;) :):):):)

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Apr 23, 11, 19:54 #8
Pawian has a good point. Poland fought hard for its independence and to build on that. Why should it have to commemorate those that killed their own? Seriously, many politicians (esp communistic ones) are descendants of Satan and deserve our contempt.

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Apr 23, 11, 20:01 #9

Seanus:

Pawian has a good point. Poland fought hard for its independence and to build on that. Why should it have to commemorate those that killed their own? Seriously, many politicians (esp communistic ones) are descendants of Satan and deserve our contempt.

What do I mean by patriots buried in Powązki cemetery?

Warsaw insurgents - hundreds of graves with thousands of names:

Killed during the breakthrough from Old Town disctrict to Middle Town through city sewers.

Mass graves of insurgents and civilians murderd by Germans in seperate streets or houses.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Apr 23, 11, 20:08 #10
I guess everyone has their place ;)

Grzegorz_Threads: 81 Posts: 6,213 Joined: Nov 16, 06 ♂	Apr 24, 11, 00:41 #11
I've got some doubts over Bierut and Gomułka as these are in fact some kind of monuments, not the ordinary tombs but generally dead commies are not the problem of Poland, unlike living commies and generally the "elite" ruining this country.

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Apr 24, 11, 01:22 #12

youd do a fit at Highgate then.......

Saturday, 23 April 2011 07:13 German and Polish war survivors in memorial spat
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Ex-Wehrmacht soldiers want a cross raised on the citadel in the Polish city of Poznan, the scene of a desperate stand by German forces trying to check the advance of the Red Army in February 1945.

The citadel now, along with Polish and Soviet war cemeteries, hosts the graves of the 50 RAF servicemen shot for their involvement in the breakout from Stalag Luft III in March 1944 that inspired the film starring Steve McQueen and James Garner.In revenge for the audacious escape Hitler ordered the murder of over half the 76 men who tunnelled to freedom. The request for a German memorial has angered Poles given the levels of destruction and suffering suffered in their country.

"If you are going to put up a cross, it must indicate that the Nazis unleashed the war and were involved in the premeditated murder of Poles," said Ryszard Danecki, who fought in the Poznan battles as a boy.
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Zenon Wechman, chairman of the local war veterans association, complained that as there was already a German cemetery outside Poznan to "have a memorial dedicated to the aggressors didn't make sense." Supporters of the memorial hope the simple inscription "Here lie dead Germans. Victims of all wars call for peace" will win over the opposition, along with the good relations Germany and Poland now enjoy.
Local officials said they await the result of an archaeological survey to confirm the site proposed for the cross contains German dead.

TBH, Id be more bothered by this development!!!! the twats will want a lufftwaffe memorial in Coventry and London next!!

pawianThreads: 90 Posts: 5,395 Joined: May 30, 08 ♂	Edited by: pawian Jun 10, 11, 22:26 #13
Seanus: Nuremberg soon put paid to Nazism but where were the trials for the 'komunystycznych mass morderców' Instead of trials, people`s memory doesn`t allow the murderers to rest in peace: Bierut`s tomb last year This year Seanus, was that you?

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Jun 10, 11, 22:28 #14
Certainly not me :)

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