Poland and Germany look back 1000 years of things in common

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Edited by: MediaWatch Aug 31, 11, 00:36 #1

BERLIN.- The Royal Castle in Warsaw and Martin-Gropius-Bau, Berlin are jointly developing the exhibition entitled “Side by Side. Poland – Germany. A 1000 Years of Art and History”which will be on view in Berlin from September 23, 2011 to January 9, 2012. The project celebrates the first Polish presidency of the EU Council, which will begin in July 2011.

The project outline has been supervised by a scientific board headed by Professor Władysław Bartoszewski. The exhibition curator is the Polish art historian Anda Rottenberg, known for a number of internationally acclaimed exhibitions and long-serving director of Zachęta National Gallery of Art in Warsaw.

Poland and Germany look back on over 1000 years of shared history. The complex nature of the history of the two neighbours has above all been shaped by major political developments and events, which have removed from the horizon areas of cultural common ground in such fields as culture, religion, language and economy.....

http://www.artdaily.com/index.asp?int_sec=2&int_new=50147

Its always nice to see two countries that have had many differences, focus on the things that they had in common. To me this shows maturity for both nations.

pawianThreads: 90 Posts: 5,395 Joined: May 30, 08 ♂	Edited by: pawian Aug 31, 11, 00:43 #2
Poland and Germany - 1000 years of neighbourhood in Europe.

Sidliste_ChodovThreads: 2 Posts: 683 Joined: Jul 27, 11 ♂	Aug 31, 11, 01:01 #3
Its always nice to see two countries that have had many differences, focus on the things that they had in common. Germany makes great cars. Poles are great at stealing them ;)

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Aug 31, 11, 01:14 #4

BERLIN.- The Royal Castle in Warsaw and Martin-Gropius-Bau, Berlin are jointly developing the exhibition entitled “Side by Side. Poland – Germany. A 1000 Years of Art and History”which will be on view in Berlin from September 23, 2011 to January 9, 2012. The project celebrates the first Polish presidency of the EU Council, which will begin in July 2011.

If I were in Poland I would definitely visit, sounds very interesting.

convexThreads: 46 Posts: 7,185 Joined: Nov 25, 09 ♂	Edited by: convex Aug 31, 11, 07:31 #5
They covered the side of a building down the street from the Brandenburg Gate with an advertisement for it. It's right by the Russian embassy :)

SokratesThreads: 19 Posts: 4,464 Joined: Jan 19, 09 ♂ [Suspended]	Aug 31, 11, 14:07 #6
Sadly there's not so much in common, Germany tried to f*ck Poland up pretty much from day one.

delphiandomineThreads: 42 Posts: 9,954 Joined: Nov 25, 08 ♂ [Suspended]	Aug 31, 11, 14:20 #7
Sadly there's not so much in common, Germany tried to f*ck Poland up pretty much from day one. You'd love it to be that way, wouldn't you? Try living in Poland or Germany, then you might qualify to have an opinion. Till then? Shut it.

antheadsThreads: 13 Posts: 306 Joined: Jan 21, 11 ♂	Aug 31, 11, 14:22 #8
this sort of positive steps, layinig the seeds for future generations, make a big difference in years to come

PetertThreads: - Posts: 1 Joined: Mar 3, 11 ♂	Aug 31, 11, 14:37 #9
In the academic effort to be mature, we should not gloss over all the German atrocities against Poles over the past 200 years or more.

delphiandomineThreads: 42 Posts: 9,954 Joined: Nov 25, 08 ♂ [Suspended]	Aug 31, 11, 14:53 #10
In the academic effort to be mature, we should not gloss over all the German atrocities against Poles over the past 200 years or more. And we shouldn't forget all the atrocities committed by Poles, too. Sorry, but you can't have it both ways.

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Aug 31, 11, 16:05 #11

In the academic effort to be mature, we should not gloss over all the German atrocities against Poles over the past 200 years or more.

The chief problem here is that german enmity towards Poland goes back for more than 1000 years. The first thing that Germans did upon encountering pre-christian Poles was invasion, having their arses handed to them they recognized Poland as a sovereign country but from then on you have Germans attempts to destroy Poland.

During Piast period they repeatedly invade Poland, then they attempt to destroy Poland via Teutonic Knights, eventually the Duchy of Brandenburg invades Poland with Sweden.

The partitions were the first succesfull attempt to destroy Poland after 700 years of unsuccesfull ones so no i dont think Poles and Germans have that much in common, we have to learn to live together but letting our guard down would be just stupid, Germans have 1000 years of history of trying to wreck Poland and suddenly they're semi-nice for the past 30 years and its all flowers and sunshine? I dont think so.

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Aug 31, 11, 16:54 #12

And we shouldn't forget all the atrocities committed by Poles, too.
Sorry, but you can't have it both ways

You presume some equilibrium. The amount of violence is not zero-based.

For illustration; if you have two combatants and one hits the other 10 times while the second combatant only hits one time; it can be said that both were violent; but not equally.

I highly recommend James Michener's book; "Poland" written in 1983. The German-Polish relationship is spelled out in novel format.

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Aug 31, 11, 17:16 #13

The first thing that Germans did upon encountering pre-christian Poles was invasion,

Yes, after Poland invaded the territory of the Polabian Slavs, like thre HRE. Two expanding forces clashed. Happened everywhere in Europe all the time.

During Piast period they repeatedly invade Poland,

Maybe you shouldn't forget that Piasts at that time also invaded the HRE, i.e. Bohemia. A small detail that could explain some wars...

then they attempt to destroy Poland via Teutonic Knights

The order wasn't part of the HRE and acted on behalf of the pope and Polish king. When Poland didn't pay the bills for the help of the order in the Gdansk case the order turned against Poland. Lesson? Better pay your bills.

eventually the Duchy of Brandenburg invades Poland with Sweden

And the Duchy of Brandenburg was invaded by Poland-Saxony and Russia.

we have to learn to live together but letting our guard down would be just stupid, Germans have 1000 years of history of trying to wreck Poland and suddenly they're semi-nice for the past 30 years and its all flowers and sunshine? I dont think so.

"We"? You are an American and probably never visited Poland or Germany.

SokratesThreads: 19 Posts: 4,464 Joined: Jan 19, 09 ♂ [Suspended]	Aug 31, 11, 19:45 #14
Palivec you're making your own history again i see? I'm not even gonna bother and swallow your bait you anti-Polish troll:)))

delphiandomineThreads: 42 Posts: 9,954 Joined: Nov 25, 08 ♂ [Suspended]	Aug 31, 11, 22:05 #15
Palivec you're making your own history again i see? I'm not even gonna bother and swallow your bait you anti-Polish troll:))) What's that, American? Still trying to be the Polish patriot who doesn't pay taxes in Poland? Let's be honest - Polish/German relations are just fine, and they laugh at bitter people like you who stay in the past.

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Edited by: hague1cmaeron Sep 3, 11, 01:56 #16

The chief problem here is that german enmity towards Poland goes back for more than 1000 years. The first thing that Germans did upon encountering pre-christian Poles was invasion, having their arses handed to them they recognized Poland as a sovereign country but from then on you have Germans attempts to destroy Poland.

During Piast period they repeatedly invade Poland, then they attempt to destroy Poland via Teutonic Knights, eventually the Duchy of Brandenburg invades Poland with Sweden.

The partitions were the first succesfull attempt to destroy Poland after 700 years of unsuccesfull ones so no i dont think Poles and Germans have that much in common, we have to learn to live together but letting our guard down would be just stupid, Germans have 1000 years of history of trying to wreck Poland and suddenly they're semi-nice for the past 30 years and its all flowers and sunshine? I dont think so.

There are quite a few wrong observations in this paragraph. When we use the word Germany-that is an irrelevant term used for those days-since no such entity existed. There were individual German states who pretty much acted independently of one another, and they fought each other far more often than they fought the Poles. What is more a lot of good German artisans and clerics settled in Poland at the time, and contributed quite a lot to Poland, and the Teutonic Knights weren't exactly 100% German. One can also talk about Veit Stoss and Kopernik when describing 1000 years of Polish/German history.

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Sep 3, 11, 19:22 #17

There are quite a few wrong observations in this paragraph

They're all correct Hague, the issue here is with your ignorance of polish history.

When we use the word Germany-that is an irrelevant term used for those days-since no such entity existed.

There existed a federation called Holy Roman Empire of the GERMAN NATION so yes after the split following death of Charlemagne such an entity most ceirtanly did exist, it was of course not a modern country or a nation but a country and nation none the less.

There were individual German states who pretty much acted independently of one another

Completely false, the primary effort was for a longest time directed towards destruction/domination of Poland.

. What is more a lot of good German artisans and clerics settled in Poland at the time, and contributed quite a lot to Poland

You mean Poland contributed to them, they did not move to Poland because they wanted to bring civilisation, they moved to Poland because it was much richer than Germany, much more tolerant and civlised as well.

the Teutonic Knights weren't exactly 100%

Out of 640 brothers 48 were of non-Germans, do the math yourself but thats a 90+% german order backed by HRE as well.

One can also talk about Veit Stoss and Kopernik when describing 1000 years of Polish/German history.

What the hell are you talking about? Stoss was on comission and Kopernik fought agaisnt Germans, some common history! Seriously the problem with your hippy attempts to portray 1000 years of bloody german agression as something more mild would be more succesfull if you knew what the bloody hell are you talking about.

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Edited by: hague1cmaeron Sep 4, 11, 01:43 #18

Completely false, the primary effort was for a longest time directed towards destruction/domination of Poland.

That is your paranoia. Like I said they fought each other far more often than the Poles-ever heard of the 30 years war?

Most of them weren't keen on destroying Poland as you put it-though they certainly tried to win it over by favorable marriage arrangements.

You mean Poland contributed to them, they did not move to Poland because they wanted to bring civilisation, they moved to Poland because it was much richer than Germany, much more tolerant and civlised as well.

You come across as very defensive, all I said is that they made a valuable contribution. And they integrated very well, apart from the time when the Polish king decided to chop their heads of in Krakow.

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Edited by: hague1cmaeron Sep 4, 11, 01:53 #19

There existed a federation called Holy Roman Empire of the GERMAN NATION so yes after the split following death of Charlemagne such an entity most ceirtanly did exist, it was of course not a modern country or a nation but a country and nation none the less.

Which was neither holy, Roman or an Empire. This was a very loose confederation, which apart from the Austrians nobody took seriously.

And don't forget they also gave as Hansa and Magdeburg law-a valuable contribution.

Stoss was on comission and Kopernik fought agaisnt Germans, some common history!

So I guess you would have preferred if Stoss worked for free? I am guessing there would be the little problem of him starving death without getting a chance to actually carve anything-could be a problem no?

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Sep 4, 11, 07:52 #20

Completely false, the primary effort was for a longest time directed towards destruction/domination of Poland.

No, the primary effort of the HRE for much of the Middle Ages was directed towards the domination of Italy. Later every state of the HRE had different interests, but except for the order, which wasn't part of the HRE, Poland was of little interest for them.

You mean Poland contributed to them, they did not move to Poland because they wanted to bring civilisation, they moved to Poland because it was much richer than Germany, much more tolerant and civlised as well.

No, during the Middle Ages they moved to Poland because the population density in the HRE exploded thanks to crop rotation and the soil couldn't feed all people anymore. Poland wasn't as densely populated. And yes, they brought civilisation, i.e. advanced settlement structures, a fact that lives on in the Polish language: burmistrz, ratusz, rynek, sołtys, plac, jarmark, mistrz, gmina.
Later, during the counter-reformation, Poland was more tolerant though, and people moved there to freely practice their faith.

What the hell are you talking about? Stoss was on comission and Kopernik fought agaisnt Germans, some common history!

He talks about cultural exchange. Getting the best German woodcaver to Poland was a cultural exchange. I'm not sure what you want to tell us with the fact that Kopernik(us) fought against the order.

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Sep 4, 11, 14:50 #21

No, during the Middle Ages they moved to Poland because the population density in the HRE exploded thanks to crop rotation and the soil couldn't feed all people anymore.

So all the starvations in Germany were due to crop success? Jesus man you make things up as you go along dont you?

I'm not sure what you want to tell us with the fact that Kopernik(us) fought against the order.

He fought against Germans for Poles?

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