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"Poland's Concentration Camp"???


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scorpioThreads: 25
Posts: 191
Joined: Nov 15, 07
Gender: Male 		  May 5, 08, 17:46 / #1
It seems either intentional, or some people just never learn. A recent article in "Ynet News from Israel" entitled "Sderot pupils in Auschwitz: We are proud to be Jews" contains the following quote:

"Among hundreds of Israeli schoolchildren visiting Poland’s concentration camp were 24 students from Sderot."

"Poland's concentration camp"? How nice. I always thought it was Nazi Germany's Concentration camp constructed in wartime occupied Poland. I'm surprised that the Jewish people, who know what revision and propaganda are very well from when Hitler was in power and discriminated against them, themselves spew out progaganda against the Polish people and nation. This is insane, especially when the press / media repeat it over and over again.

Another thing I notice is that the media, for some strange reason, avoids at any cost using the phrase "German" to describe anything to do with the holocaust. Instead, the phrase "Nazi" is used. It must be part of some deal to slowly dilute responsbility of the German people for WWII, the murder of Jews, and the construction and operation of the concentration camps located on occupied lands.

This is propaganda on par with the Nazi-German era.
dtaylorThreads: 15
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Gender: Male 		Edited by: dtaylor   May 5, 08, 17:54 / #2
Confuses me too, as it was the Germans who named the place Auschwitz, but the Poles seem to only want to call the place by the name of the town its located, Oswiecim.

Seems very strange why someone would want the claim to fame with such a place. Im not a history buff, but what was the name of the barracks before the Germans took over?

Though i visited again on Friday, something is wrong with the place, its lost its "meaning" and now became nothing more than a tourist attraction.
Easy_TerranThreads: 4
Posts: 477
Joined: Mar 31, 08
Gender: Male 		  May 5, 08, 18:08 / #3
Search for this article: Students from every school in Britain to visit Auschwitz.

The subtitle of that article read 'Polish concentration camp', but after sending letters to the editor-in-chief by some people, they 'kindly' removed that offensive phrase from the article itself, leaving it as it was on the result page, nonetheless.
scorpioThreads: 25
Posts: 191
Joined: Nov 15, 07
Gender: Male 		  May 5, 08, 18:13 / #4
dtaylor:
...but the Poles seem to only want to call the place by the name of the town its located, Oswiecim.


This is absolutely incorrect. Just last year, the Polish government demanded that the media stop using the term "Polish Concentration Camps' and even submitted to UNESCO the official name to be used, "Former Nazi German Concentration Camp Auschwitz-Birkenau, near Oświęcim". This is the official name, and yet, the media still refers to it as either the "Nazi Concentration Camp", or "Poland's Concentration Camps", or "Polish Concentration Camps".

Poland, nor the Poles never wanted to or did claim fame to any of those camps. Your statement is way off track. They are camps built and run by the Germans, in German occupied Poland.
polishcanuckThreads: 10
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Joined: Feb 11, 07
Gender: Male 		  May 5, 08, 18:36 / #5
dtaylor:
Confuses me too, as it was the Germans who named the place Auschwitz, but the Poles seem to only want to call the place by the name of the town its located, Oswiecim.


Auschwitz is the German name for the town of Oswiecim. But you're right the average pole does refer to the camp as Oswiecim rather than auschwitz. Many poles don't like the german language/people; this is probably why they prefer using polish names. It also re-enforces the "polishness" of the city.

scorpio:
Another thing I notice is that the media, for some strange reason, avoids at any cost using the phrase "German" to describe anything to do with the holocaust. Instead, the phrase "Nazi" is used. It must be part of some deal to slowly dilute responsbility of the German people for WWII, the murder of Jews, and the construction and operation of the concentration camps located on occupied lands.


I agree, I've noticed the same thing. In the future people will think Nazi's came down from another planet!
helloThreads: 37
Posts: 1,104
Joined: Dec 5, 06
Gender: Male 		  May 5, 08, 18:40 / #6
Check this thread about "Polish" concentration camps on public radio.
joepilsudskiThreads: 39
Posts: 1,950
Joined: Apr 27, 07
Gender: Male 		Edited by: joepilsudski   May 5, 08, 19:05 / #7
OSWIECIM: SOME HISTORY

During the 19th and early 20th centuries the Jewish trade in White slaves from these lands expanded enormously. It has been described by the Jewish historian Edward Bristow in his 1982 book Prostitution and Prejudice, published by Oxford University Press and Schocken Books in New York. Although Bristow's book is written from the viewpoint of one opposed to this Jewish trade in women, it is nevertheless enormously revealing. The Jews recruited peasant girls in Polish and Russian villages, usually under false pretenses, and transported them to brothels in Turkey, Egypt, and other parts of the Middle East; to Vienna, Budapest, and other major cities in the Austro-Hungarian Empire; and as far away as New York, New Orleans, and Buenos Aires. This Jewish trade in Slavic women naturally caused a great deal of hatred against the Jews by the Slavs, and this hatred broke out in pogroms and other popular actions against the Jews over and over again.


One would believe from the works of Mr. Spielberg and other Jewish propagandists that the hatred the Slavs bore against the Jews was based only on religious bigotry and that the Jews were completely innocent and inoffensive. One fascinating fact which Bristow's book reveals is that the center of the Jewish trade in Polish girls was in a little town called Oswiecim. The German name for this town was Auschwitz.

http://www.natvan.com/free-speech/fs982a.html
dtaylorThreads: 15
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Gender: Male 		  May 5, 08, 19:19 / #8
scorpio:
This is absolutely incorrect.


Well no, since its the name which most Poles call it, and sorry, but the local transport services call it too, even the tourist buses. Auschwitz is the German name for it, again i ask, what was the name of the barracks before?
z_dariusThreads: 20
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Gender: Male 		  May 5, 08, 22:29 / #9
scorpio:
This is absolutely incorrect.

dtaylor:
Well no, since its the name which most Poles call it

Both of you are right as both names have been in use in Poland, although Oswiecim was used more frequently.
Still, some Poles used the name Auschwitz to differentiate the camp form the city of Oswiecim.

Anybody remembers Tadeusz Borowski's "U nas w Auschwitzu"?
plk123Threads: 28
Posts: 6,124
Joined: Aug 29, 07
Gender: Male 		Edited by: plk123   May 5, 08, 22:42 / #10
scorpio:
"Poland's concentration camp"?

Easy_Terran:
'Polish concentration camp'

hmm.. neither of these quotes actually appear in the linked article. so why spread hatred? btw. the first statement can definitely be correct in most contexts as Oswiecim is in PL. Polish they are not though.

and yes it was the Nazis not Germans as the latter is all of them and you know that not all Germans were supportive of Hitler's insanity just like not all Poles were commies a few years back.

scorpio:
Auschwitz-Birkenau
that's what it has always been.

dtaylor:
Though i visited again on Friday, something is wrong with the place, its lost its "meaning" and now became nothing more than a tourist attraction.
i don't think so. it's quite the pilgrimage for many. besides see the quote below. is that tourism?
Easy_Terran:
Students from every school in Britain to visit Auschwitz.
Easy_TerranThreads: 4
Posts: 477
Joined: Mar 31, 08
Gender: Male 		Edited by: Easy_Terran   May 5, 08, 23:13 / #11
Easy_Terran:
The subtitle of that article [edited: did] read 'Polish concentration camp', but after sending letters to the editor-in-chief by some people, they 'kindly' removed that offensive phrase from the article itself, leaving it as it was on the result page, nonetheless.

plk123:
neither of these quotes actually appear in the linked article


Oh no, NO, it sitll does appear there. Go to the main page, type in 'Poland' or 'Polish concentration camp' in the search input field and then, in the result page, read carefuly what it says.

Scroll down to 9th article (as of now, 9.13pm, May 5th, California time). It still says 'Polish concentration camps' below the link to THIS VERY article.

I sent two letters of protest, one to the author, the other to the editor-in-chief. Apparently number (unknown to me) of people sent similar letters, cuz the subtitle in the REAL article was changed within few hours.

The search results never were, though.
plk123Threads: 28
Posts: 6,124
Joined: Aug 29, 07
Gender: Male 		Edited by: plk123   May 5, 08, 23:25 / #12
poland in search didn't yield anything controversial.. on the first couple of pages.. the second did but then it was also the search term.. hmm

but, many of the article titles have somewhat alarmist tone to them.


check this out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_death_camp
Easy_TerranThreads: 4
Posts: 477
Joined: Mar 31, 08
Gender: Male 		Edited by: Easy_Terran   May 5, 08, 23:33 / #13
plk123:
poland in search didn't yield anything controversial.

Easy_Terran:
Go to the main page

My bad, my bad.
I meant Ynet News, that's where this discussion took off from.
JuliePotockaThreads: 6
Posts: 208
Joined: Nov 19, 07
Gender: Female 		Edited by: JuliePotocka   May 6, 08, 01:30 / #14
And people still debate on people dying during the Holocaust...at least we can agree somewhat here, that Auschwitz was a former Nazi Concentration camp.

I think it being in a search engine under, 'Polish concentration camp' is perhaps more of location; but we MUST be diligent for the future generations, so people don't blame the current Polish government, nor the current Germans, for what happened to the people who died horribly back then.

I for one, shall always stand up for those who no longer have a voice; those who died there, were Jews, Poles, Catholics, Gypsies, and many others that the Nazis felt wouldn't be missed in the long run, like the homosexuals.

Did they kill left-handed people, I wonder? I would assume so; even the Catholic nuns beat my Uncle for being that, calling him evil, until he switched hands...but not until they tied it behind his back.

Fortunately today, even that would be considered cruel.
HarryThreads: 26
Posts: 4,537
Joined: May 2, 07
Gender: Male 		  May 6, 08, 02:54 / #15
Why might it be called a Polish concentration camp? Could it be because it was last operated by Poles? The Germans left the concentration camp in January 1945 but it was still in operation in April of 1947. And if we include the subcamps, Germans ran the site for four years and eight months, while Poles ran the site for eleven years.


Funny how these things get forgotten.
scorpioThreads: 25
Posts: 191
Joined: Nov 15, 07
Gender: Male 		  May 6, 08, 05:08 / #16
plk123:
scorpio:
"Poland's concentration camp"?

Easy_Terran:
'Polish concentration camp'

hmm.. neither of these quotes actually appear in the linked article. so why spread hatred?

plk123, please click on the link provided in the first post on this thread. The extract "Poland's concentration camp" is there in the very beginning of the article:

"Among hundreds of Israeli schoolchildren visiting Poland’s concentration camp were 24 students from Sderot. ‘With all due respect to our problems at home, this visit puts things in perspective,’ one student says."

Haryy:
Why might it be called a Polish concentration camp? Could it be because it was last operated by Poles? The Germans left the concentration camp in January 1945 but it was still in operation in April of 1947. And if we include the subcamps, Germans ran the site for four years and eight months, while Poles ran the site for eleven years.


Funny how these things get forgotten.

Poles never operated any of the German concentration camps in occupied Poland. You are revising historical fact and truth. Do yourself a favor and learn history. An official statement from the "American Jewish Committee":

piasa.org/news14.html
HarryThreads: 26
Posts: 4,537
Joined: May 2, 07
Gender: Male 		  May 6, 08, 06:43 / #17
scorpio:
Poles never operated any of the German concentration camps in occupied Poland.

Quite right. And at no time have I ever said that Poles never operated any of the German concentration camps in occupied Poland. What Poles did was take the concentration camps which had been set up by the Germans and run those camps as Polish concentration camps.

scorpio:
You are revising historical fact and truth. Do yourself a favor and learn history.

If anybody needs to learn about history, it is you. Look up the names Potulice, Zgoda, Jaworzno, Chrusty and Libiąż. Poles even restarted the German concentration camp in Warsaw! Those are historical facts, revise them as you wish.
celinskiThreads: 83
Posts: 2,800
Joined: Nov 14, 07
Gender: Female 		  May 6, 08, 06:56 / #18
INAPPROPRIATE TERMINOLOGY

I APPRECIATE the fact that The AJN informs readers about the XVII March of the Living which will take place on May 1 this year (AJN 25/04). Participants in the March will proceed from Auschwitz I to Auschwitz II-Birkenau in order to dignify the memory of victims of the Holocaust.

The ceremony is part of an international educational project in Auschwitz, which will be held in Poland and in Israel from April 28-May 11.

At the same time, I wish to firmly protest the terminology “Nazi-Polish concentration camps” used in the article. I want to believe that it was simply an unfortunate mistake made by the reporter, yet a mistake so insulting and painful to Poles and the Polish community in Australia.

All the more painful because this mistake is often repeated in the Australian mass media, which is an insult to the Polish Diaspora and which serves poorly in revealing in Australia the truth about German-Nazi concentration camps.

Using such terminology also reveals a lack of rudimentary knowledge of the history of World War II, which absolutely should not take place in such a respectable and opinion-shaping newspaper as The Australian Jewish News.

RYSZARD SARKOWICZ
Consul General of the Republic of Poland
Sydney, NSW

http://www.ajn.com.au/news/news.asp?pgID=5393
HarryThreads: 26
Posts: 4,537
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Gender: Male 		  May 6, 08, 07:09 / #19
^ Well done Carol!

Now tell us how yu feel about Poland running the Auschwitz concentration camp until 1947 and one of the Auschwitz subcamps until 1956.
plk123Threads: 28
Posts: 6,124
Joined: Aug 29, 07
Gender: Male 		  May 6, 08, 07:44 / #20
scorpio:
plk123, please click on the link provided in the first post on this thread. The extract "Poland's concentration camp" is there in the very beginning of the article:

like the latter letter stated those may be unfortunate words but that's a correct usage of the words. i don't care for it any more then you do but that's the way it is. i'm glad that you guys are on it though.

as to poles running these camps, no but poles did build them as they were forced to do while POW to the nazis.
celinskiThreads: 83
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Gender: Female 		  May 6, 08, 07:47 / #21
Harry:
Poland running the Auschwitz concentration


Harry, I think what you mean to say is "Soviet run Poland". If you recall "Stalin" was running the show, not the Polish.
HarryThreads: 26
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Gender: Male 		  May 6, 08, 08:42 / #22
celinski:
Harry, I think what you mean to say is "Soviet run Poland". If you recall "Stalin" was running the show, not the Polish.

Nice try Carol but Stalin died in 1953. Poles were still operating one of the one of the Auschwitz subcamps in 1956.

I know that Stalin was rather powerful, but you can't seriously believe that three years after his death he was still running the show in Poland.
celinskiThreads: 83
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Gender: Female 		  May 6, 08, 09:15 / #23
Harry:
Stalin died in 1953



"Soviet" run as in "Communist Poland". I think you can see quite a differance since 1989. I also feel it's important to say there are many still in power today that were placed there under communism. It takes time for change but believe me Harry, Poland being betrayed and lose of power made Poland a country that was run by the very person that killed off Polish military and citizens. Siberia was not a vacation destination. If you think "Hitler" was bad do some research on "Stalin".
z_dariusThreads: 20
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Gender: Male 		  May 6, 08, 09:15 / #24
Harry:
I know that Stalin was rather powerful, but you can't seriously believe that three years after his death he was still running the show in Poland.

It's not a matter of belief. These are facts. Poland was occupied by the USSR until 1989.
HarryThreads: 26
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Gender: Male 		  May 6, 08, 09:33 / #25
z_darius:
It's not a matter of belief. These are facts. Poland was occupied by the USSR until 1989.


Oh, I see. You mean it's OK to operate concentration camps as long as there are troops of another nation on your soil.

So it was OK for Czechoslovakia to have concentration camps while it was occupied by Poland in the 1960s, eh?
z_dariusThreads: 20
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Gender: Male 		  May 6, 08, 09:43 / #26
Harry:
Oh, I see. You mean it's OK to operate concentration camps as long as there are troops of another nation on your soil.

Don't put words in my mouth.
Do you always assume what people think, or what happened? Why not do some honest research for a change.

Harry:
So it was OK for Czechoslovakia to have concentration camps while it was occupied by Poland in the 1960s, eh?

Czechoslovakia was occupied by Poland in the 60's? News to me. Unless you are confusing Polish troops who were sent there to destroy the Czech uprising. Yes, they went there. Nothing to be proud of but it's not what you're trying to make out of it.

You are using the word "concentration camp" very freely. Pretty much any detention facility would qualify by your descriptions.

You are an angry little fvcker with very very little knowledge of history, pitiful fragments really, and only some rudimentary debating skill. That's what happens when anger overshadows reason. You seem to have none left.

Try taking a walk. That may help clear your mind.
celinskiThreads: 83
Posts: 2,800
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Gender: Female 		  May 6, 08, 10:08 / #27
[quote=z_darius]You are an angry little fvcker with very very little knowledge of history,[/quote

LOL I couldn't have said it better, way to go z-darius.
HarryThreads: 26
Posts: 4,537
Joined: May 2, 07
Gender: Male 		Edited by: Harry   May 6, 08, 10:11 / #28
z_darius:
You are an angry little fvcker with very very little knowledge of history, pitiful fragments really,

Unfortunately those little bits tend to be all the little bits Poles would like to be forgotten. Like them taking over Auschwitz concentration camp and running it until 1947.

I can understand why mentioning that subject touches nerves with Poles, but until you as nation deal with the fact that Poles ran concentration camps in Poland, you need to be reminded of it.

celinski:
LOL I couldn't have said it better, way to go z-darius.


You of all people want to talk about lack of knowledge of history? You the woman who says that the brave Americans wanted to resupply the Warsaw uprising but the nasty British stopped them and you who constantly bleats about how Polish Catholics aren't counted in the dead of the holocaust?
Go read a book Carol. And this time try one which doesn't have a picture on every page.
z_dariusThreads: 20
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Gender: Male 		  May 6, 08, 10:20 / #29
Harry:
Like them taking over Auschwitz concentration camp and running it until 1947.

What did you expect? Were they supposed to pack it up and send it to Germany?
The camp was operated by NKVD and the prisoners were German POWs, mostly Waffen SS fellas. Rudolf Hess was executed there in 1947. Do you feel sorry for him?

Harry:
I can understand why mentioning that subject touches nerves with Poles, but until you as nation deal with the fact that Poles ran concentration camps in Poland, you need to be reminded of it.


Nothing to touch any nerves. Nazis got busted and they had a chance to taste their own medicine. If that was up to me I would keep part of it open till today and place in there all neonazis and hate mongering as.sholes. Some of your hate filled comments would qualify you as an inmate.
celinskiThreads: 83
Posts: 2,800
Joined: Nov 14, 07
Gender: Female 		  May 6, 08, 10:23 / #30
Harry:
Go read a book Carol


Thank you I love to read. I don't know what happened to you Harry, going over your posts you seemed to be such a sweet person. Now all you want to do is go from post to post hurting.

I don't know whats going on in your life but your anti Polish is taking place in the wrong rooms.
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