"Poland's Concentration Camp"???

♂

May 7, 08, 06:52 #61

Harry:

The vast majority were Poles. Seeing as your original statement was that the prisoners were German soldiers and now you say some were Poles, you have just admitted that some Poles fought for the Nazis. Oops.

That vast majority of Poles were Polish patriots fighting against Germans. They were not communist though and that was their only fault. Some of these patriots were those Poles who return from Western front where they fought along the side of British and Americans (French fought mostly in their bedrooms and backyards tending to tomatoes and grapes)

Some Polish citizens did fight for the Germans. These were Poles of German origin living in Poland. Some native Poles also co-operated with the Nazis. That is not unusual in any nation. There were Jews fighting for the Nazis, some high ranking Nazi officers. Jews were killing Jews and they were also some of the most effective kapos in concentration camps. Using your twisted and sick logic Jews were operationg concentration camps.

Harry:

The figure I can find fastest is that in the 1970s the PZPR hd 3.5 million members. So z-dariusz is calling 3.5 million Poles the scourge of the Earth.

Wait. I thought we were talking about "Poland's concentration camps" in 1947. You seem to be drifting all over the place. What does 1970 have to do with 1947 I thought we were discussing? Are you going to tell the world that Poles had concentration camps in 1970?

I see how you work. When proven wrong you don't have the integrity to admit it. You have an agenda and, no historical fact counts to you if it doesn't support that agenda. You are a hate filled fool and you are burning yourself out by performing a very public, and in the end masochistic, masturbation.

Another of 1500 grams of organic matter, you undoubtedly call brain, wasted.

♂

May 7, 08, 07:19 #62

BubbaWoo:

did anyone actually clarify the difference between a jewish pole and a polish jew?

All individiuals in any given nation have a national "citizenship", "ethnicity", and "religion". In a unique case, most individuals who follow the Jewish faith consider their religion an ethnic group as well.

In the USA for examle, all legal residents are considered "Americans". Then, for each American, it can be broken down into: Italian American, Polish American, Jewish American, etc. The same goes for Poland. All legal resident of Poland are "Polish". Then you have German Pole, Catholic Pole, Jewish Pole, Lutheran Pole, Musliim Pole. Not complicated at all.

That said, Solomon Morel is a Jewish Pole or Pole of Jewish descent. I have a friend whose father is a Russian of the Russian Orthodox religion, and his mother is a Catholic Pole. He lives in Bialystok. When asked his nationality, he states: I am a Catholic-Orthodox-Russian-Pole. Konstanty Gerbert and Adam Michnik for example are Jewish Poles. Where I live, the region has numerous Gypsy Poles. And what about the recent Brazilian football player that got Polish citizenship? Well, he is simply a Brazilian Pole, or a Pole of Brazilian descent. Of course, he might also state it like this: "I am a Polish citizen of Brazilian descent", if he wishes to reflect the fact that his roots aren't ethnically from the region where Poland is geographically located. To break it down further, Polish belongs to the Slavic category, just like Germans belong to the Germanic and Swedes to the Nordic. Simple, right?

A "Jewish Pole" or "Polish Jew", IMO, the same, meaning: a Polish citizen with Jewish roots, or a person with mixed ethnic Polish slavic and Jewish roots.

z_dariusThreads: 22 Posts: 5,091 Joined: Oct 18, 07 ♂	May 7, 08, 07:24 #63
scorpio: A "Jewish Pole" or "Polish Jew", IMO To me a Polish Jews are those who consider themselves Jews who happened to have some family hisory living in Poland. Jewish Poles are persons who consider themselves Poles with Jewish roots. Ultimately it may be splitting hairs, as we all are th same human race and we will live together in peace forever and ever, amen :)

celinskiThreads: 83 Posts: 2,800 Joined: Nov 14, 07 ♀	May 7, 08, 07:27 #64
Here in the US we do not ID this way, or I should say other than Jewish. First we are "nationality". This is not the same for the "Jewish" and I find this "segregation" by religion wrong. I do notice this also depends on the subject even with "Jewish". Speaking as victims of "Holocaust" they say, "Jewish Poles", Speaking of rights in Israel, they are no longer "Polish".

♂

Edited by: Lukasz May 7, 08, 07:35 #65

z_dariusz is right. Last time Gypsies (about 50 000 in Poland) protested to not say that crime was commited by Polish citizen with Gypsy origin. In Polish terms nations means rather ethinc group. as to Jewish Pole and Polish Jew. It is exactly as Dariusz pointed it out.

Polish Jew means - I feel that Jews are nation and/or realigous group and I have Polish citizenship or I was born in this country.

Jewish Pole - I feel that I am Jew by my religion or origin when it comes to feeling towards Poland I feel Pole not Jew.

Easy_TerranThreads: 4 Posts: 473 Joined: Mar 31, 08 ♂	May 7, 08, 12:52 #66
Harry: Yes it was. Well done. Mr Morel was which nationality: a) German; b) Russian; c) Polish? I don't know. This psycho must have been from Mars, along with those mysterious Nazis.

celinskiThreads: 83 Posts: 2,800 Joined: Nov 14, 07 ♀	May 7, 08, 13:02 #67
Lukasz: Polish citizen with Gypsy origin Your Gypsy's, are any Jewish? Seeing as they are in their own group under Holocaust, I assume they are not.

♂

May 7, 08, 13:03 #68

Harry:

Why might it be called a Polish concentration camp? Could it be because it was last operated by Poles? The Germans left the concentration camp in January 1945 but it was still in operation in April of 1947. And if we include the subcamps, Germans ran the site for four years and eight months, while Poles ran the site for eleven years.

Funny how these things get forgotten.

Auschwitz stopped operating when the soviets liberated the camp in '45.

However, Harry is right, there were smaller "camps" run in parts Poland/Germany after the war, mainly operated by Jews seeking revenge. Unfortunately it is a suppressed/taboo topic and very little is said about it. If you're interested though, here's a book about this topic written by a Jew: "Eye for an Eye" by John Sack, amazon.com/Eye-John-Sack/dp/0967569109 The author had a hard time getting his book published, but it's out there. I think you can even find it on torrent sites.

Easy_TerranThreads: 4 Posts: 473 Joined: Mar 31, 08 ♂	May 7, 08, 13:16 #69
BubbaWoo: did anyone actually clarify the difference between a jewish pole and a polish jew? It's actually very simple. Władysław Szpilman, Janusz Korczak, Jan Brzechwa - all Jews. Jakub Berman, Hilary Minc, Solomon Morel - all Polish. Both lists consist of hundred of names. Clear and obvious, isn't it?

♂

May 7, 08, 13:27 #70

Harry:

Why might it be called a Polish concentration camp? Could it be because it was last operated by Poles? The Germans left the concentration camp in January 1945 but it was still in operation in April of 1947. And if we include the subcamps, Germans ran the site for four years and eight months, while Poles ran the site for eleven years.

Funny how these things get forgotten.

Auschwitz stopped operating when the soviets liberated the camp in '45.

However, Harry is right, there were smaller "camps" run in parts Poland/Germany after the war, mainly operated by Jews seeking revenge. Unfortunately it is a suppressed/taboo topic and very little is said about it. If you're interested though, here's a book about this topic written by a Jew: "Eye for an Eye" by John Sack, amazon.com/Eye-John-Sack/dp/0967569109 The author had a hard time getting his book published, but it's out there. I think you can even find it on torrent sites.

♀

Edited by: celinski May 7, 08, 14:41 #71

This is the 60 min interview with John Sack.

STEVE KROFT: It's the stuff of fiction: a Polish Jew who loses his entire family to the Nazis during the Holocaust finds himself, at the end of World War II, running a prison camp for Germans and Nazi collaborators, and with an opportunity to exact a terrible and very personal revenge.

While it may sound like a novel or a made-for-TV movie, in fact that much of the story is true. But did Solomon Morel actually exact that revenge, brutalizing German prisoners under his command? Or did he and others fantasize it? That's the subject of an emotional historical debate and an ongoing investigation by the Polish government.

http://www.fpp.co.uk/Auschwitz/docs/KillerMorel.html

Here's a download of the book 1.98 MB.

http://torrentz.ws/torrent/765430/John-Sack-An-Eye-for-an-Eye-A-Story- of-Revenge-1993-pdf

plk123Threads: 30 Posts: 6,410 Joined: Aug 29, 07 ♂	May 7, 08, 15:22 #72
Harry: So you are claiming that the penalty for not joining the PZPR was death? Very realistic. where did you get that? i didn't say it.. crack open your dictionary, eh?

lesserThreads: 7 Posts: 2,014 Joined: Oct 19, 07 ♂	Edited by: lesser May 7, 08, 15:39 #73
BubbaWoo: did anyone actually clarify the difference between a jewish pole and a polish jew? I think that 'Jewish Poles' is correct form and the second is wrong (Polish Israelite would be correct if anything ).

celinskiThreads: 83 Posts: 2,800 Joined: Nov 14, 07 ♀	May 7, 08, 19:30 #74
polishcanuck: Auschwitz stopped operating when the soviets liberated the camp in '45. However, Harry is right, there were smaller "camps" run in parts Poland/Germany Once more this was not "Poland" it was Soviet occupied Poland".

tornado2007Threads: 20 Posts: 3,497 Joined: Jul 11, 07 ♂	May 7, 08, 19:32 #75
celinski: it was Soviet occupied Poland". tut tut those naughty Soviets, what was Stalin thinking

♂

May 7, 08, 20:56 #76

Harry:

Jaworzno is the one which ran until 1956.

Yes, but from the bit I read about it from Wikipedia, which I don't consider an impartial source, even they admit that it was administered first by the NKVD, and the my Simon Morrel, who the Poles have been trying to extradite from Israel for years...also, the head of the security apparatus in this period was Berman...these men were Poles in name and 'convenience' only.

plk123Threads: 30 Posts: 6,410 Joined: Aug 29, 07 ♂	May 7, 08, 21:33 #77
lesser: BubbaWoo: did anyone actually clarify the difference between a jewish pole and a polish jew? I think that 'Jewish Poles' is correct form and the second is wrong (Polish Israelite would be correct if anything ). they are just Jews.

♂

Edited by: scorpio May 8, 08, 02:16 #78

Here is an excellent example on just how confused even "Israel National News" is when it comes to defining an individual who has Jewish roots and lives, was born, and raised outside of Israel in another country (Brazil). The article entitled, "Arab Terror Attack on Brazilian Jewish Youth in Warsaw" israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/126073, states:

- "At least one Arab terrorist entered a sixth-floor hotel room and briefly took three Jewish youths hostage in central Warsaw on Monday."

- "The three teens who arrived last week from Brazil to participate in the March of the Living were unharmed."

First, it appears the three youths are native citizens of Brazil, born and raised there, speaking the native language, Portuguese. So, they were born as "Brazilians", correct? So, what nationality are they? Let's further diagnose what the Israel National News says.

Well, according to the INN, notice the author Hana Levi Julian states (1) "Brazilian Jewish Youth", (2)"Jewish youths", (3) "...who arrived last week from Brazil", all in one article. Well, if they were born and raised in Brazil, are they "Brazilan", "Brazilian Jews", "Jewish Brazilians", or "Jewish" youths? As you can see, it is not that gentiles have difficulty categorizing citizens of Jewish extraction in the country they both live in together, but the Jewish media, government, Jewish organizations, and Jews themselves are confused as to how to categorize someone with Jewish roots not born, rasised, or living in Israel - "Jewish" or a "native" citizen of the country they reside in.

Until Israel, the chief Rabbi, or a major Jewish body decides exactly whether (1) Jewish is a religion, nationality, or both, and (2) Whether someone of Jewish extraction living in a country outside if Israel is a "Jew" or 'national' from that given country, nobody will know exactly how to define this particular nationality/religion and there will only be further confusion and finger pointing.

♂

May 8, 08, 03:29 #79

polishcanuck:

Auschwitz stopped operating when the soviets liberated the camp in '45.

However, Harry is right, there were smaller "camps" run in parts Poland/Germany after the war,

Auschwitz death camp stopped operating in 1945. However, Auschwitz concentration camp kept running (with different victims) until 1947.

plk123:

where did you get that? i didn't say it.. crack open your dictionary, eh?

You said (on page 2) "Harry, i bet there were even more commies in PL then but the thing you're missing that majority had to be so they could live."
So they couldn't live if they weren't commies. And what were commies? Members of the PZPR!

celinski:

Once more this was not "Poland" it was Soviet occupied Poland".

And every single Pole who worked at the concentration camps in Poland between 1945 and 1956 did so because there was a Soviet guard pointing a gun at him/her, right? Poles would never run anything like a concentration camp if it weren't for the Soviets forcing them to. Well, apart from the one which Poles ran in Poland in the 1930s before the Nazi/Soviet invasions....

♂

May 8, 08, 03:43 #80

More confusion on whether an individual of Jewish extraction born outside of Israel is "Jewish", "country_abc Jewish", "Jewish country_abc", "Israeli" ... from the Jerusalem Post. This is pertinent to the current discussion because many (especially Harry) question which term is correct: "Polish Jew", "Jewish Pole", "Jew" ? Read on:

- "A 23-year-old heavily intoxicated Arab man from Kuwait who claimed he had a bomb briefly held three Jewish teenagers captive in their Polish hotel room on Monday, police and officials said."

- "The three Brazilian teens, who were in Poland for the annual March of the Living Holocaust commemoration ceremonies, were accosted by the drunken man in their room at central Warsaw's Holiday Inn as they were getting ready to leave the hotel, said Aharon Tamir, deputy chairman of the March of the Living."

- "Although no Israelis were involved in the incident, security was briefly heightened for a separate group of 450 Israeli high school students currently in Poland, an Education Ministry spokeswoman said."

- "Around 10,000 people from around the world, mostly Jewish, took part in the 20th March of the Living on Thursday, an annual event at the former Nazi death camp of Auschwitz-Birkenau that honors the memory of the six million Jews who perished in the Holocaust."

From the above (all in on article), we gather the following:

(1) "three Jewish teenagers", (2) "three Brazilian teens", (3) "no Israelis were involved" [Israeli Jews, Jewish Israeli's ?], (4) "mostly Jewish".

It seems from the above, that the Jersualem Post doesn't know the exact nationality of those 3 teens as well. Harry, any answers?

♂

Edited by: Harry May 8, 08, 03:57 #81

scorpio:

It seems from the above, that the Jersualem Post doesn't know the exact nationality of those 3 teens as well. Harry, any answers?

Their nationality would be Brazilian.

The adjective describes the nationality:
African-American
Irish-American
Polish American
British American
French Canadian
Lowland Scot
Highland Scot
Silesian Pole
Jewish Pole

Pretty much the only example of nationality first I can think of is Ulster-Scot but that one doesn't really work because Ulster is not generally considered to be a nation.

Although with that said, some people do disagree with me. Look at the museum going up in Warsaw: it's called the Museum of the history of Polish Jews.

♂

Edited by: joepilsudski May 10, 08, 13:02 #82

scorpio:

"A 23-year-old heavily intoxicated Arab man from Kuwait who claimed he had a bomb briefly held three Jewish teenagers captive in their Polish hotel room on Monday, police and officials said."
- "The three Brazilian teens, who were in Poland for the annual March of the Living Holocaust commemoration ceremonies, were accosted by the drunken man in their room at central Warsaw's Holiday Inn as they were getting ready to leave the hotel, said Aharon Tamir, deputy chairman of the March of the Living."
- "Although no Israelis were involved in the incident, security was briefly heightened for a separate group of 450 Israeli high school students currently in Poland, an Education Ministry spokeswoman said."
- "Around 10,000 people from around the world, mostly Jewish, took part in the 20th March of the Living on Thursday, an annual event at the former Nazi death camp of Auschwitz-Birkenau that honors the memory of the six million Jews who perished in the Holocaust."

Scorpio, this story is all just Jewish bull ****....but you make very good points as to who is a 'Jew'...in a sense, this is a term of convenience, used for politics & money....consider this: maybe the 'Jewish-Brazilian-Israeli 'teenagers' thought the Kuwaiti had some dough on him, and went to his hotel room and tried to roll him when he was drunk!...then, somehow, it turns into 'a kidnapping of 'Jewish youth' who came to comemorate the 'six million' at a 'holocaust' ceremony...and, of course, the 'Arab terrorist' has a bomb!

♀

May 10, 08, 16:21 #83

Harry:

And every single Pole who worked at the concentration camps in Poland between 1945 and 1956 did so because there was a Soviet guard pointing a gun at him/her, right? Poles would never run anything like a concentration camp if it weren't for the Soviets forcing them to. Well, apart from the one which Poles ran in Poland in the 1930s before the Nazi/Soviet invasions....

Thats about right. Harry do you think Poland was fighting in WW2 to be controlled by Stalin? Do you feel Poland under occupation was how the Polish wanted to live?

joepilsudskiThreads: 44 Posts: 2,521 Joined: Apr 27, 07 ♂	May 10, 08, 16:41 #84
WHY DIDN'T THE POLES HAVE CONCENTRATION CAMPS? Because Poles have a very short 'attention span'!

Easy_TerranThreads: 4 Posts: 473 Joined: Mar 31, 08 ♂	May 10, 08, 19:11 #85
joepilsudski: Because Poles have a very short 'attention span'! LOL :)

♂

May 13, 08, 12:18 #86

joepilsudski:

maybe the 'Jewish-Brazilian-Israeli 'teenagers' thought the Kuwaiti had some dough on him, and went to his hotel room and tried to roll him when he was drunk!...then, somehow, it turns into 'a kidnapping of 'Jewish youth' who came to comemorate the 'six million' at a 'holocaust' ceremony...and, of course, the 'Arab terrorist' has a bomb!

Seeing as the man has now been identified as the son of the ambassador of Kuwait and the government of Kuwait have agreed to revoke his diplomatic immunity so he can be charged in Poland, it's rather likely that your version of events is complete rubbish.

celinski:

Thats about right.

So for the record your position is that every single Pole who worked in concentration camps from 1945 to 1956 was only doing so because she/he would have been shot for refusing.
All I can say is that it's lucky for me that your deep love for Poland doesn't extend to actually living here. The thought of your whiney pathetic fukwitted personage living in the same country as me is enough to make me want to reopen a Polish concentration camp and check myself in as the first inmate.

celinskiThreads: 83 Posts: 2,800 Joined: Nov 14, 07 ♀	May 13, 08, 12:55 #87
Harry: The thought of your whiney pathetic fukwitted personage living in the same country as me is enough to make me want to reopen a Polish concentration camp and check myself in as the first inmate. LOL promise, I'm packing my bags. Can't see leaving my Polish brothers to contend with your bs.

Easy_TerranThreads: 4 Posts: 473 Joined: Mar 31, 08 ♂	May 13, 08, 13:01 #88
Harry: The thought of your whiney pathetic fukwitted personage Get a grip on yourself, mate. No need for shite like that.

HarryThreads: 59 Posts: 7,995 Joined: May 2, 07 ♂	May 14, 08, 05:11 #89
Easy_Terran: Get a grip on yourself, mate. No need for shite like that. You are almost completely correct with that comment, there is no need for it. Unfortunately Carol is the exception that proves the rule.

ShelleySThreads: 18 Posts: 3,647 Joined: Jun 26, 07 ♀	May 14, 08, 05:41 #90
Easy_Terran: Search for this article: Students from every school in Britain to visit Auschwitz. Im not sure what your point was - British kids are visiting the camp as part of their GCSE studies because they are studying WWII which has only recently been introduced onto the curriculum countrywide.

POLAND . The Unofficial Guide.	Unanswered \| Archives
POLAND . The Unofficial Guide.	Meet Polish People at PF!	Witamy, Guest \| PF Members \| Gold Members

Home \| Unanswered \| Archives \| Random \| Statistics	Time in Poland: 18:35 / Feb 9
About Us \| Contact Us \| Rules, Privacy \| Poland Advertising	© 2005-12 PolishForums.com