Poles back to the Elbe?

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Sep 11, 10, 12:59 #1

For the most heinous blood-bath in mankind's history WW2), Germany should have been rolled back to the Łaba (Elbe) which would simply mean returning that originally Slavic territory to Poland where it belongs. The very name Polabians (bo sięgali po Łabę -- they extended to the Elbe) is not German. Neither is Pommern (Pomerania) of German origin. 'Po morze' means up to the sea, and German Pommern is merely a translation with no German meaning. All those lands (once extending to Memel in the Baltic states) was conquered by brutal Teutonic force. Why are those ill-gotten gains being perpetuated? The GDR should have been ceded to Poland, possibly leaving an independent or autonomous Lusatian enclave.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Sep 11, 10, 13:08 #2
What glass or bottle are you on now, Pol3? ;) ;) Why cry over spilt milk?

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Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Sep 11, 10, 13:10 #3

Polonius3:

For the most heinous blood-bath in mankind's history WW2),

Not to thourougly enough it seems....your ilk lives and is spilling their crap again...wanna have another go or is your big mouth running away with your senses again? Polish fashion??

But next time we won't make the same error and fight the Russians too...we will rather share you with them! Ooopsie, didn't it happened several times already??? ;)

:):):)

Be glad you got allotted what you did...independence, german lands....be grateful...nothing of it was on your own merit!

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Sep 11, 10, 13:27 #4
Certain Poles shoot themselves in the foot by showing imperialistic tendencies of their own. In case it had escaped your notice, conquering was rife at the time and is now an integral part of European history. Why should the GDR have been ceded? That's a ridiculous thing to say!

ZIMMYThreads: 10 Posts: 2,353 Joined: Feb 21, 09 ♂	Sep 11, 10, 13:47 #5
Bratwurst Boy: next time we won't make the same error and fight the Russians too "Next time".............?

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂	Sep 11, 10, 13:58 #6
ZIMMY: "Next time".............? YouknowwhatImean... :)

hague1cmaeronThreads: 21 Posts: 1,652 Joined: Mar 30, 10 ♂	Sep 11, 10, 14:10 #7
Bratwurst Boy: But next time we won't make the same error and fight the Russians too...we will rather share you with them! Ooopsie, didn't it happened several times already??? ;) LOL Yes indeed. The German+Russian friendship built on foundations of absolute trust(:

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂	Sep 11, 10, 14:13 #8
hague1cmaeron: Yes indeed. The German+Russian friendship built on foundations of absolute trust(: Well...I wouldn't call it trust...pragmatism is more like it...I think....

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Sep 11, 10, 14:20 #9

Bratwurst Boy:

YouknowwhatImean... :)

I'll let you off the hook on this one but I will say that I was sorely tempted to really hold your comment against you (and I could do it well).

In the August 30, 2010 New Yorker Magazine I was reading an article titled, "On the Prison Highway". It's about someone who was recently visiting Stalins' gulags. One portion of the piece reads as follows:

"After Russia re-took Poland, many Poles once again wound up in the gulag. Some who had lived through the Nazi ocupation said that Hitler was nothing compared with this, and they now wished they had fought on Hitler's side."

I suspect that you find the above a most interesting comment. Many released prisoner would not go back to the Soviet Union and some even committed suicide.

More from the article: "Gulag prisoners who knew the novel "Uncle Tom's Cabin" regretted
that fate had put them in this time and place, and not in slavery in the American South a hundred years before. As Negro slaves, they reasoned, at least they would have lived someplace warm, and would have been whipped and branded but not worked to death outright."

So much is perspective, so much is projection, so much is a half-truth.

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂	Sep 11, 10, 14:26 #10
ZIMMY: I'll let you off the hook on this one but I will say that I was sorely tempted to really hold your comment against you (and I could do it well). Oh come on...I give back as good as I take...someone tries to p*iss on me he better gets an umbrella! :) I didn't hear a comment from you about Pollies fantasies either...

ZIMMYThreads: 10 Posts: 2,353 Joined: Feb 21, 09 ♂	Sep 11, 10, 14:33 #11
Bratwurst Boy: someone tries to p*iss on me he better gets an umbrella! :) If I wanted to get serious you would need a hurricane shelter. Bratwurst Boy: I didn't hear a comment from you about Pollies fantasies either... There is a difference between a fantasy and reality. The reality is what happened during WWII which makes any future threats a most serious subject. Don 't make me spank you.

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂	Sep 11, 10, 14:34 #12
ZIMMY: Don 't make me spank you. If you are a girl I might let you...

ZIMMYThreads: 10 Posts: 2,353 Joined: Feb 21, 09 ♂	Sep 11, 10, 14:40 #13
Bratwurst Boy: f you are a girl I might let you.. That surprises me; I thought only the English enjoyed that. I thought Germans only liked to get their butts kissed? :)

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂	Sep 11, 10, 14:42 #14
ZIMMY: I thought Germans only liked to get their butts kissed? :) Well...that too....

MalopolaninThreads: 8 Posts: 198 Joined: Sep 5, 10 ♂	Sep 11, 10, 14:43 #15
All Lechitic lands should be incorporated into Polish Republic. When will you Poles give back German land and the cities which you robbed? - page 11

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂	Sep 11, 10, 14:46 #16
Malopolanin: Lechitic Lech is dead...you know that, don't you?

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Sep 11, 10, 15:10 #17
JK is a homophobic and foolish clown. Stalin and Hitler were madmen who have riled Poles for decades for what they did. I see them for what they were, insane. We don't need a yappy little dog stoking up old embers. Germans and Russians moved on (Germans more so), so so can he :)

IronsideThreads: 59 Posts: 6,786 Joined: Feb 26, 09 ♂	Sep 11, 10, 15:21 #18
Bratwurst Boy: Be glad you got allotted what you did...independence, german lands....be grateful...nothing of it was on your own merit! The same goes for Germany BB! After WWII !

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂	Sep 11, 10, 15:23 #19
Ironside: The same goes for Germany BB! After WWII ! Well...you can't say it wasn't on our own merit...in a way...:( goes drinking more coffee

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂	Sep 11, 10, 15:30 #20
Ironside: Well, I can and I do say it:) We surely lost our lands in the east because of our own failure (starting the war), wouldn't you say so too?

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Edited by: Ironside Sep 11, 10, 15:50 #21

Bratwurst Boy:

We surely lost our lands in the east because of our own failure (starting the war), wouldn't you say so too?

Well, yes I would but you take for granted post war reality - two German states as they were!
In different circumstances - if Staling would had played it closer to the chest - you could end up in five different German states with little industry left.
The fact is that both sides :The west and the eat were treating their German states as they front line in the war of propaganda and economic might display. Both German states received huge subsidiary to their economy - its not like they had to strive by themselves.

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂	Sep 11, 10, 15:56 #22
Ironside: Both German states received huge subsidiary to their economy Yeah...they coddled us...

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Sep 11, 10, 16:13 #23

Germany waged WW1 entirely beyond German soil, leaving Polish, French and other lands in ruins. The Allies made the big mistake of agreeing to an armistice. It should have been uncondiitonal surrender accompanied by considerable truncation of German and Austrian territory. All neighbouring countries -- France, Benelux, Poland (to the Elbe), Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Denmark, etc. should have received generous chunks of pre-war German/Austrian territory. What was left of Germany and Austria should have been occupied for at least 10 years (better yet indeifnitely) by the victorious allies. Barring that solution (occupation), wimpy France should have agreed to Piłsudski's proposal of a joint pre-emptive strike agaisnt Hitler's Germany. Barring that, Hitler's illicit remilitarisation of the Rhineland should have provided cause for such allied occupation and perhaps even the final dismemberment of Germany as a perpetually festering hotbed of aggression and warmongering since time immemorial.

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Sep 11, 10, 21:53 #24

Polonius3:

All neighbouring countries -- France, Benelux, Poland (to the Elbe), Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Denmark, etc. should have received generous chunks of pre-war German/Austrian territory.

By the same logic, Lithuania, Bielorus', Ukraine, Czech and Slovakia should have received nice chunks of Poland for waging the war multiple times against its neighbors.

Polonius3:

Barring that solution (occupation), wimpy France should have agreed to Piłsudski's proposal of a joint pre-emptive strike agaisnt Hitler's Germany.

If you have done that, the Soviet Union, which was going to strike anyway whether Germans start or not the WWII, would have attacked Poland in protection of the communists in Germany and liberation of Germany from evil France and Poland. This way the situation for Poland would be far worse than it was.

IronsideThreads: 59 Posts: 6,786 Joined: Feb 26, 09 ♂	Sep 12, 10, 01:13 #25
Nathan: By the same logic, Lithuania, Bielorus', Ukraine, Czech and Slovakia should have received nice chunks of Poland for waging the war multiple times against its neighbors. Gee Nate, when you'll find a while why don't you read one or two history books about the subject other then ukrainain borba booklets. The other option is, you're doing it on purpose !?

Chicago PollockThreads: 10 Posts: 638 Joined: Apr 10, 10 ♂	Sep 12, 10, 06:39 #26
Poland needs to give up the past and look to the future. If they would have done this after the Polish-Russo war in the early 1920's they may have been better prepared for WWII and just maybe avoided the 1940's Polish holocaust. If Poland doesn't or can't change, they may be facing another holocaust in the future.

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Edited by: Qrot Sep 12, 10, 08:42 #27

Malopolanin:

All Lechitic lands should be incorporated into Polish Republic.

Or maybe we would be better off taking care of the lands we already have, instead of
phantasizing about incorporating our neighbours' lands? Maybe we should first develop
all the poor eastern regions, build some proper infrastructure, highways and so on.
There is enough work in Poland to be done for the next 100 years to catch up with Western
Europe. If we accomplish that, we can think about conquest, why not. When that happens,
I say invade the Czech Republic first (they were holding the secret of their černé točené for
far too long - their insolence must be punished!) :)

Chicago Pollock:

Poland needs to give up the past and look to the future.

I wouldn't say "give up" the past, but concentrating more on the future wouldn't hurt.

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Sep 12, 10, 09:26 #28

Bratwurst Boy:

german lands

we merely go polish lands`back.. you stole them from us a century before

Bratwurst Boy:

We surely lost our lands in the east because of our own failure (starting the war), wouldn't you say so too?

u were denying this in another thread..

Bratwurst Boy:

Yeah...they coddled us...

what, usa`didn't? u can't deny that

Chicago Pollock:

Poland needs to give up the past and look to the future. If they would have done this after the Polish-Russo war in the early 1920's they may have been better prepared for WWII and just maybe avoided the 1940's Polish holocaust. If Poland doesn't or can't change, they may be facing another holocaust in the future.

that is 1 heck of a stupid statement.. it ranks right up there with the worst of pf

IronsideThreads: 59 Posts: 6,786 Joined: Feb 26, 09 ♂	Sep 12, 10, 12:33 #29
Chicago Pollock: Poland needs to give up the past and look to the future. If they would have done this after the Polish-Russo war in the early 1920's they may have been better prepared for WWII and just maybe avoided the 1940's Polish holocaust. This is a hell of the statement, could you elaborate please or I'll be forced to agree with plk123(horror:)).

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