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Poles in the Crusades to the Holy Land


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Filios1Threads: 15
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Joined: Nov 13, 07 ♂ 		 Oct 20, 10, 22:13    #1
I'm having trouble finding some kind of secondary source to learn about Polish knights (from Polish knights Hospitallers, or Order of Malta) who took part in the Crusades to the Holy Land. Whether that be the first, second, third, fourth etc.. does not matter. Anyone come into contact with such a book?
Thank you.
TrevekThreads: 33
Posts: 2,155
Joined: May 21, 08 ♂ 		 Oct 20, 10, 22:27    #2
Do you mean Polish knights who were members of these orders (Knights hospitallers etc/). I thought the only Polish order (founded in Poland) was the Order of Dobrzyn, which was concerned with the Northern Crusades (Prussia/Lithuania)
Filios1Threads: 15
Posts: 1,953
Joined: Nov 13, 07 ♂ 		Edited by: Filios1  Oct 20, 10, 22:28    #3
Trevek, either or. Polish knight serving in foreign orders, or Polish orders themselves (but only if they relate to the Crusades to the Holy land, (not Northern Crusade against *pagans* in the East)
SeanBMThreads: 41
Posts: 8,727
Joined: Mar 10, 08 ♂ 		Edited by: SeanBM  Oct 20, 10, 22:31    #4
Filios1:
I'm having trouble finding some kind of secondary source to learn about Polish knights (from Polish knights Hospitallers, or Order of Malta) who took part in the Crusades to the Holy Land.


Interesting.

I took a quick look, there were many crusades

The specific crusades to restore Christian control of the Holy Land were fought over a period of nearly 200 years, between 1095 and 1291.

Crusades(Wiki)

But the Wendish Crusade (wiki)
The Wendish Crusade (German: Wendenkreuzzug) was an 1147 campaign, one of the Northern Crusades and also a part of the Second Crusade, led primarily by the Kingdom of Germany inside the Holy Roman Empire and directed against the Polabian Slavs (or "Wends").

So maybe Poland was not part of the crusades to Jerusalem?

I would have to read more about it but this is a very interesting topic, nice one.

Edit*
Trevek:
Polish order (founded in Poland) was the Order of Dobrzyn

The Order of Dobrzyñ... was a military order created in the borderland of Masovia and Prussia (today's Dobrzyñ Land, Poland) during the 13th century Prussian Crusade to 'defend against Baltic Prussian raids'.

Wiki
TrevekThreads: 33
Posts: 2,155
Joined: May 21, 08 ♂ 		 Oct 20, 10, 22:33    #5
The Teutons were in the Holy Land before heading to the growth industry of the North. Perhaps German speaking Polish knights rode with them.

According to the mighty wiki, the Order of Dobrzyn was the only military order founded in Poland.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_Dobrzy%C5%84
Filios1Threads: 15
Posts: 1,953
Joined: Nov 13, 07 ♂ 		 Oct 20, 10, 22:37    #6
SeanBM:
would have to read more about it but this is a very interesting topic


I somewhat have the feeling that Polish knights, if they did serve, would have served under the order of a foreign order. Whether that be because the King feared the loss of these nobles and their men might weaken the kingdom, or if he simply did not want these close contacts with an enemy (Germany-Teutonic knights etc), I don't know.

Or maybe they simply were not invited by the Pope? :) Or not worthy enough Christians?
TrevekThreads: 33
Posts: 2,155
Joined: May 21, 08 ♂ 		 Oct 20, 10, 22:40    #7
Try this
http://www.chivalricorders.org/orders/smom/maltpold.htm
KsysiaThreads: 39
Posts: 545
Joined: May 6, 09 ♀ 		 Oct 20, 10, 22:47    #8
Poles were not participating. Had enough trouble with border conflicts. Imagine moving the knights down south - who would mind the border?
SeanBMThreads: 41
Posts: 8,727
Joined: Mar 10, 08 ♂ 		Edited by: SeanBM  Oct 20, 10, 22:48    #9
Filios1:
if they did serve, would have served under the order of a foreign order.

I am not sure they did serve anyone.
According to Bernard of Clairvaux, the goal of the crusade was to battle the pagan Slavs "until such a time as, by God's help, they shall either be converted or deleted".[6] However, the crusade failed to achieve the conversion of most of the Wends. The Saxons achieved largely token conversions at Dobin, as the Slavs returned to their pagan beliefs once the Christian armies dispersed; Albert of Pomerania explained, "If they had come to strengthen the Christian faith ... they should have done so by preaching, not by arms".[7]

The countryside of Mecklenburg and central Pomerania was plundered and depopulated with much bloodshed, especially by the troops of Henry the Lion.[1] Of Henry's campaigns, Helmold of Bosau wrote that "there was no mention of Christianity, but only of money".[1] The Slavic inhabitants also lost much of their methods of production, limiting their resistance in the future.

Wendish Crusade

Sounds more like pillaging than converting, it didn't work not then anyway by the looks of it.

The campaigns started with the 1147 Wendish Crusade against the Polabian Slavs (or "Wends") of what is now northern and eastern Germany. The crusade occurred parallel to the Second Crusade to the Holy Land, and continued irregularly until the 16th century.

Northern Crusades
I believe this also includes Poland.
rockThreads: 6
Posts: 1,492
Joined: Jun 13, 08 ♂ 		 Oct 20, 10, 22:50    #10
Come one by one if you can please. lol


In March 1095 at the Council of Piacenza, ambassadors sent by Byzantine Emperor Alexius I called for help with defending his empire against the Seljuk Turks. Later that year, at the Council of Clermont, Pope Urban II called upon all Christians to join a war against the Turks, promising those who died in the endeavor would receive immediate remission of their sins.[17]
David_18Threads: 111
Posts: 1,212
Joined: Jan 4, 07 ♂ 		 Oct 20, 10, 22:50    #11
I do know that the early ancestors of the Polish Dabrowa clan fought in The holy land.

When this early ancestor of the Clan Dabrowa distinguished himself by his courage at Jerusalem, Godfrey de Bouillon, was King of Jerusalem. This gallant foreign knight had bestowed on him, via Godfrey Bouillon, a new coat of arms. The coat of arms was a rendition of Calvary Hill (Golgotha). Golgotha was the hill upon which Our Lord Jesus Christ's was crucified with two thieves. The new arms would bear three crosses patée, in the center; and one cross patée fitched on each side of the middle cross. These crosses were called "Dabrowa," in Polish.

After this knight returned from Palestine, he took the same path through Poland. He was fond of the scenery so he settled in Poland and his descendants still exist there today

http://www.angelfire.com/mi4/polcrt/DabrowskiClans.html

But i don't know about any book...
SeanBMThreads: 41
Posts: 8,727
Joined: Mar 10, 08 ♂ 		Edited by: SeanBM  Oct 20, 10, 22:52    #12
Trevek:
Try this
http://www.chivalricorders.org/orders/smom/maltpold.htm

That's a good one:
Polish Knight who served in the fight against the Infidel for at least six months was exempt from the requirement of pilgrimage to the Holy Land.

Edit*

Here's a book:

Orders in Poland (in Polish).
TrevekThreads: 33
Posts: 2,155
Joined: May 21, 08 ♂ 		 Oct 20, 10, 22:57    #13
There were orders of the Hospitallers in Silesia, Poznan and elsewhere.
SeanBMThreads: 41
Posts: 8,727
Joined: Mar 10, 08 ♂ 		Edited by: SeanBM  Oct 20, 10, 23:01    #14
Trevek:
There were orders of the Hospitallers in Silesia, Poznan and elsewhere.


Were there? From what I am reading now it seems that
Drohiczyn... At the peak of the Order of the development consisted of 35 knights. It was the only order of knights, which was created and formed in the Polish lands.

(Book) Orders in Poland

Maybe they were not created and formed in Polish lands?
TrevekThreads: 33
Posts: 2,155
Joined: May 21, 08 ♂ 		 Oct 20, 10, 23:04    #15
Story about Leszek the White and telling the Pope Polish knights couldn't crusade cos there was no mead in Holy Land http://www.beer100.com/history/meadhistory.htm
southernThreads: 116
Posts: 10,955
Joined: May 17, 07 ♂ 		 Oct 20, 10, 23:06    #16
No way Slavs participated in crusades.
TrevekThreads: 33
Posts: 2,155
Joined: May 21, 08 ♂ 		Edited by: Trevek  Oct 20, 10, 23:10    #17
SeanBM:

Were there? From what I am reading now it seems that


It was the only order formed in Poland but the other orders had branches.

This book has a few interesting chapters

http://books.google.com/books?id=1m4fbJyQ4pkC&pg=PA433&lpg=PA433&dq=Po lish+knights+crusades&source=bl&ots=YSWUiz7sHm&sig=jw0aMg2eR_yRhGbcIol h4KKI9BE&hl=en&ei=sle_TMXzBIWXOu32xTI&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&re snum=5&ved=0CC4Q6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=Polish%20knights%20crusades&f=false

Interesting comment in first paragraph about lack of interest in crusades by Polish society

http://web.ceu.hu/medstud/events/ev004/starnaw.htm
rockThreads: 6
Posts: 1,492
Joined: Jun 13, 08 ♂ 		Edited by: rock  Oct 20, 10, 23:18    #18
Turks were in defence when crusaders came. That is from 1095 to 1272.

They saw that christains are not good friends.

Then, Turks wanted to show their power and attacked between 1308-1679.

See what happened. Turks captured even some cities in England, Ireland and Iceland.

History shows that Turkey and west of Turkey have a lot in common.

It is like thesis anti-thesis.

Admit or not Turks are a European nation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Ottoman_sieges_and_landings
TrevekThreads: 33
Posts: 2,155
Joined: May 21, 08 ♂ 		 Oct 20, 10, 23:19    #19
Old discussion from last year

Ancient Polish History thread - page 6
SeanBMThreads: 41
Posts: 8,727
Joined: Mar 10, 08 ♂ 		Edited by: SeanBM  Oct 20, 10, 23:29    #20
rock:
Turks captured even some cities in England, Ireland

Turks captured cities in Ireland???
I have never in all my years heard of anything like that... Are you sure?
TrevekThreads: 33
Posts: 2,155
Joined: May 21, 08 ♂ 		 Oct 20, 10, 23:32    #21
SeanBM:
Turks captured cities in Ireland???


It would explain the kebab houses.
BarneyThreads: 16
Posts: 1,630
Joined: May 26, 08  Pictures: 3 ♂ 		Edited by: Barney  Oct 20, 10, 23:35    #22
SeanBM:
I have never in all my years heard of anything like that... Are you sure?
They never captured any towns but kidnapped lots of people......the white slave trade.....
By turks I think he means Ottomans. It was Algerians who kidnapped an entire Irish village

Barbary pirates in Ireland: The Sack of Baltimore, Co. Cork
TrevekThreads: 33
Posts: 2,155
Joined: May 21, 08 ♂ 		 Oct 20, 10, 23:38    #23
I suppose there is always William Joyce (goldsmith and supposed founder of claddagh ring) who was captured by pirates and sold to Turkish (or Moorish, I forget) master.
BarneyThreads: 16
Posts: 1,630
Joined: May 26, 08  Pictures: 3 ♂ 		 Oct 20, 10, 23:42    #24
Trevek:
William Joyce (goldsmith and supposed founder of claddagh ring) who was captured by pirates and sold to Turkish

I had never heard that but its a good story.
SeanBMThreads: 41
Posts: 8,727
Joined: Mar 10, 08 ♂ 		Edited by: SeanBM  Oct 20, 10, 23:42    #25
Barney:
They never captured any towns but kidnapped lots of people......the white slave trade.....
By turks I think he means Ottomans.


Trevek:
there is always William Joyce (goldsmith and supposed founder of claddagh ring) who was captured by pirates


This topic just gets more interesting.

Damn you PF, damn you to hell, I don't have time for... I will just check one last thing and then I am definitely ... :p
rockThreads: 6
Posts: 1,492
Joined: Jun 13, 08 ♂ 		Edited by: Moderator  Oct 20, 10, 23:45    #26
Barney:
By turks I think he means Ottomans


Interesting statement. Who were the Ottomans ? Chinese ? lol.

Algeria was one of the most important bases of Ottoman navy at that time. This does not mean that Algerians were captured some cities in Ireland etc. Algeria was in Ottoman rule and Turkish marins were working there and possibly use some Algerians too.

If a navy from Falkland attacks Argentina, will you say they are not British but Falklanders.lol

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Turkish_navies


This thread is wandering from the original title
BarneyThreads: 16
Posts: 1,630
Joined: May 26, 08  Pictures: 3 ♂ 		 Oct 20, 10, 23:51    #27
SeanBM:
This topic just gets more interesting.

Yeah I had found a link to a review of The End of the World and the Forging of Christendom which looks like a good read some day....

I found a link toLeszek the White and his beer thing but Trev had posted
rockThreads: 6
Posts: 1,492
Joined: Jun 13, 08 ♂ 		 Oct 20, 10, 23:53    #28
rock:
This thread is wandering from the original title


I know I know sorry.

But you have to admit that some posters find it very interesting :)
AmathystThreads: 30
Posts: 3,968
Joined: Nov 10, 06  Pictures: 2 ♀ 		 Oct 20, 10, 23:57    #29
rock:
See what happened. Turks captured even some cities in England


Can you provide a credible link for that?
rockThreads: 6
Posts: 1,492
Joined: Jun 13, 08 ♂ 		 Oct 21, 10, 00:01    #30
Amathyst:
a credible link


I will try my best if mods let me :)

''credible link'' What are the criterias for you ?

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