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Poles executed by Jews during WW2


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bolekThreads: 10
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 Jun 10, 10, 09:49    #1
Interesting article,

The hangings took place on the last day of August 1941, on the town square of Wierzbnik, in what had once been central Poland. Two years had passed since the joint German-Soviet invasion that had destroyed the Polish state; ten weeks before, the Germans had betrayed their ally and invaded the Soviet Union. Wierzbnik, home to Poles and Jews, lay within the General Government, a colony that the Germans had made from parts of their Polish conquests. As Poles left church that Sunday morning, they saw before them a gallows. The German police had selected sixteen or seventeen Poles—men, women, and at least one child. Then they ordered a Jewish execution crew, brought from the ghetto that morning, to carry out the hangings. The Poles were forced to stand on stools; then the Jews placed nooses around their necks and kicked the stools away. The bodies were left to dangle.




skysoulmateThreads: 41
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 Jun 10, 10, 10:11    #2
Great article showing the complexity of the Polish-Jewish relations and how an occupying power used it to their advantage.
1jolaThreads: 33
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Edited by: 1jola  Jun 10, 10, 10:24    #3
Interesting. When I got to this part...

As Poles left church that Sunday morning, they saw before them a gallows. The German police had selected sixteen or seventeen Poles—men, women, and at least one child. Then they ordered a Jewish execution crew, brought from the ghetto that morning, to carry out the hangings. The Poles were forced to stand on stools; then the Jews placed nooses around their necks and kicked the stools away. The bodies were left to dangle.1

...I was ready to offer an excuse that these Jews should not be blamed for this as this was often done by Germans and Soviets -to pit one group against another. Then I read this:

“I knew I hanged the right people,” one of the Jewish hangmen in Wierzbnik recalled more than fifty years later. He thought that those who were executed belonged to the Polish Home Army, and as such were guilty of murdering Jews.

This reminds me of this idiot pseudo-historian, Robin O'Neil, who studied under the Holocaust guru Sir Martin Gilbert, who wrote among other nonsense:

If the AK succeeded in removing more than 200 Germans it would be surprising. Some say they killed more Jews than they saved; they were certainly hunted down during the war, and after. Through the whole conduct of hostilities on Polish soil and their relationship with the Jewish agencies, the AK was a reluctant band, who utterly failed the Jews in their greatest hour of need.

http://www.jewishgen.org/yizkor/poland/pol001.html
MareGaeaThreads: 45
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 Jun 10, 10, 11:48    #4
1jola:
When I got to this part...


Did you get to this part?

Addressing the evidence of the Jewish hangman, Browning characterizes the Home Army as a “conservative nationalist underground movement” that did indeed kill Jews, but perhaps not at early as 1941. This description may reflect a consensus among surviving Wierzbnik Jews; it does not fit the historical Home Army.

And I'm sure you read this:

Although the Home Army’s enemy was Nazi Germany, anti-Semitism was indeed a problem in its ranks. On Rosh Hashanah, three weeks after the hangings in Wierzbnik, Polish Prime Minister Władysław Sikorski sent his good wishes from London to the Jewish citizens of Poland via the BBC. Stefan Rowecki, the commander of the Home Army in Warsaw, was irritated; such gestures, he thought, made “the worst possible impression” among Poles.

>^..^<

M-G (nuff said)
BubbaWooThreads: 46
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 Jun 10, 10, 11:54    #5
and of course this...

Many Poles had been inclined to support anti-Semitic parties in the 1930s,

or does that not sit comfortably with your perceptions of the 'truth'...?
MareGaeaThreads: 45
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Edited by: MareGaea  Jun 10, 10, 11:58    #6
I makes sense as the AK was a reflection of Polish society at the time, with the exception of the Communists and extreme Right-wing, so it is for certain that the anti semitic element that was for sure present in Polish society before the war was also present in the AK. There's no point in denying that. This incident goes to show that the Jews who did this were forced by the occupier to do so. At also, let's not forget that these Poles, although Jews were the forced enforcers, were excecuted by the Nazis.

>^..^<

M-G (nuff said)
SokratesThreads: 19
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[Suspended]
Edited by: Sokrates  Jun 10, 10, 12:41    #7
MareGaea:
the Jews who did this were forced by the occupier to do so

And enjoyed doing so, i think no one contends that Jews were made to do so, we're pointing out that they were happy to murder Polish women and children while at it.
MareGaea:
were excecuted by the Nazis.

No they were not, as you can read there's post war testimonies which means those Jewish murderers did survive the war to boast about it.

Its interesting to see you justifiy murder of children as long as its done by the Jews and how you ignore the statements of the Jews that they enjoyed it, was the child they hanged anti-semitic?
MareGaeaThreads: 45
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Edited by: MareGaea  Jun 10, 10, 12:51    #8
Sokrates:
And enjoyed doing so


Can I have some proof of that, or is it your usual anti semite ranting again?

Sokrates:
No they were not, as you can read there's post war testimonies which means those Jewish murderers did survive the war to boast about it.


Where do they boast? It's just ppl recollecting things. No boasting in there. Of course you bypass the fact that there were anti semites in the AK as it doesn't fit in your picture of the AK, doesn't it?

Sokrates:
Its interesting to see you justifiy murder of children as long as its done by the Jews and how you ignore the statements of the Jews that they enjoyed it, was the child they hanged anti-semitic?


Where do I exactly justify this? I suggest you better start to think before you write something. Oh I forgot: thinking is really hard for you and gives you headaches, no wonder you try to limit it to the bare essential.

>^..^<

M-G (Sokidonkey is at it again)
1jolaThreads: 33
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 Jun 10, 10, 16:11    #9
There are certain Jews who would like to foment hatred between Poles and Jews. M-G is one of them here on PF.

Luckily, we Poles are not so easily provoked.

If he can show that AK had a policy to kill Jews for the sake that they were Jews and not traitors and thus deserving to be killed he might have a point, but he can't since he has no knowlegde of our forces and is generally a Polonophobe.

I, personaly, find it disgusting that this forum is a venue for shitting on anything Polish. Under the false name Polish Forums, the administrator of this site hides behind the 'freedom of speech' to ignore obvious, grossly offensive acusations like the idiot M-G makes. I don't even want to mention that there are no Polish mods on this site, but the Admin is supposely Polish. Tell me Admin, why are you completely absent from modding these obvious Poland haters. You have heard of AK, haven't you? Speak up, son.
MareGaeaThreads: 45
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Edited by: MareGaea  Jun 10, 10, 16:23    #10
1jola:
There are certain Jews who would like to foment hatred between Poles and Jews. M-G is one of them here on PF.


Oh, am I? I think it's much more your strategy. By ignoring deliberately stuff that doesn't fit your revisionist's view.

1jola:
If he can show that AK had a policy to kill Jews for the sake that they were Jews and not traitors and thus deserving to be killed he might have a point, but he can't since he has no knowlegde of our forces and is generally a Polonophobe


I am just quoting the text you quoted. Or better: the parts you conveniently forgot to quote.

1jola:
I, personaly, find it disgusting that this forum is a venue for shitting on anything Polish. Under the false name Polish Forums, the administrator of this site hides behind the 'freedom of speech' to ignore obvious, grossly offensive acusations like the idiot M-G makes. I don't even want to mention that there are no Polish mods on this site, but the Admin is supposely Polish. Tell me Admin, why are you completely absent from modding these obvious Poland haters. You have heard of AK, haven't you? Speak up, son.


Weren't you the one that was in the US when the shyte hit the fan in Poland? What the hell do you think you are speaking like this. It's ppl like you who put Poland and all it's good citizens to shame. If you cannot stand critisism or quoting from sources you yourself bring forward, you shouldn't come here, crybaby.

So now that Jolanda is crying his heart out, maybe it's time he left this forum foregood? After all, he is not a good marketing for Poland.

>^..^<

M-G (Jolanda, the coffeeboy of the Polish army)
vetalaThreads: -
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 Jun 10, 10, 16:24    #11
I got the exact same impression as 1jola when reading that part. One moment it's "That poor man..." then suddenly "Son of a...!". I agree with the author that this is the biggest problem with Polish-Jewish relations - people are NEVER critical of testimonies.
"Why do you hate Poles/Jews?" "Because they killed Jews/Poles" "How do you know?" "Everyone says so". And it's immediately accepted as the absolute truth.
MareGaeaThreads: 45
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Edited by: MareGaea  Jun 10, 10, 16:29    #12
vetala:
Polish-Jewish relations - people are NEVER critical of testimonies.


True. The guy who stated that he had "the right ppl" was probably imprinted beforehand by either the Nazis or other ppl that they were.

>^..^<

M-G (while testimonials are most of the time blurred and biased, what else does one have to go on?)
nottThreads: 6
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 Jun 10, 10, 19:24    #13
to maybe bring this thread somewhere close to the topic...

MareGaea:
Of course you bypass the fact that there were anti semites in the AK as it doesn't fit in your picture of the AK, doesn't it?


There were antisemites in the Home Army, simply because there were antisemites in the Polish society, and the AK recruited 'mostly' from amongst Polish citizens. However, even suggesting that the AK was antisemitic betrays a radically economical attitude to historical truth.

Throughout the war AK swiftly eliminated scum known by the name of 'szmalcownik', I bet you know the term. That was the official policy, and one of the priorities to boot. There was something like Żegota, an organisation devoted solely to helping the Jews, and actually actively working. I do not remember how it related to the AK, in terms of organisation, but definitely it was a governmental body, just like the AK, and at least closely cooperating with the AK. During the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising the AK organized some military actions in order to assist the insurgents. After the uprising it was grossly involved in organizing help for the refugees, starting with the legging off itself. Never there was any anti-Jewish policy either by the Polish governement, nor by the AK. Nor there were any 'private' antisemitic attacks by the soldiers of the AK. Home Army was an army, ruled by military law, insubordination was punished somehow brutally.

Stating today that the AK was antisemitic is quite an insult. Mocking people who react emotionally to this accusation, adds to the insult, and... well. No point in calling you names, innit?
MareGaeaThreads: 45
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Edited by: MareGaea  Jun 10, 10, 19:36    #14
nott:
There were antisemites in the Home Army, simply because there were antisemites in the Polish society


Compare what I said myself earlier in this thread:

MareGaea:
I makes sense as the AK was a reflection of Polish society at the time, with the exception of the Communists and extreme Right-wing, so it is for certain that the anti semitic element that was for sure present in Polish society before the war was also present in the AK.



nott:
Stating today that the AK was antisemitic is quite an insult


Where exactly do I state that the AK was anti semitic? I just quoted from the same text. If you read the text fully, you will come across these passages. They were not my words.

nott:
Mocking people who react emotionally to this accusation


Have you got any idea how much insults these "poor" fellows have thrown over my head? Guess you don't, otherwise you would not be saying this. Well, guess what, I bite back and sometimes I bite harder.

>^..^<

M-G (nuff said)
sobieskiThreads: 80
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 Jun 10, 10, 20:09    #15
I was thinking that this Forum is rather an excuse to vent extreme anti-Jewish sentiments...
Anybody heard of the Swietokrzyskie Brigade. A most fascist offspring of the Polish resistance.
Hardened antisemites, betrayed and killed countless Jewish compatriots. And on the end of the war made a deal with the Nazis as to escape the Red Army.

Also I refer to a famous Home Army report to Londonw which simply stated that Polish society was (still is ?) antisemitic to its very core.
vetalaThreads: -
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 Jun 10, 10, 20:32    #16
sobieski:
Also I refer to a famous Home Army report to Londonw which simply stated that Polish society was (still is ?) antisemitic to its very core.

Do you perhaps refer to the report by Jan Karski?
Marek11111Threads: 49
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 Jun 10, 10, 20:48    #17
Israel gov. is anti-Semites as its policies will surely destroy Israel and kill millions of Jews
but then Jews will scream it's another holocaust omitting the responsibility of their own demise
sobieskiThreads: 80
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 Jun 10, 10, 22:01    #18
vetala:
sobieski:
Also I refer to a famous Home Army report to Londonw which simply stated that Polish society was (still is ?) antisemitic to its very core.

Do you perhaps refer to the report by Jan Karski?

I have to look it up in one of my history books. But I think it was General Monter.
Karski by the way is a saint. I read he will finally will get a street named in Warsaw after him. Better later as never. Better him as some poultry.
MareGaeaThreads: 45
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 Jun 10, 10, 22:10    #19
nott:
Might have confused this and that


Well it's hard to confuse the only thing I said about the topic as such. And I gave you the quote, so it's not that much work after all. It was exactly the same what you said about it.
Quite remarkable for somebody who is just happily jumping into stuff, eh?

nott:
Point is, you are biased. Strange but true. Like in 'we remember, have learnt from it, and got over with it'. But Poles are 'still whining about being murdered by millions 70 YEARS AGO'. Not quite so, as discussing Holocaust is still illegal, reparation demands loud and clear, but any attempt of 'antisemitic' Poles in this field, without even mentioning money, is just 'stirring sh1t and causing unnecessary tensions between East and West.' Or whatever.


So it's biased to not live in the past, but think about the future instead of the wrongdoings that have happened in the past? What would you gain from it? Nobody denies that the Poles have suffered and in many places throughout Western Europe the brave Poles are honoured for their heroism. I only jump in when it yet again takes an anti-Jewish turn because I believe that we've been there, seen it and that it's time to move on. And mind you, that is the general opinion in the West. And I'm just another Westerner in that respect. It's the covert racism that attracts my attention the most; those who want to rationalize it and find somehow "proof" for the justness of their claims. But then again, what can be just about disregarding an entire group of ppl based on the behaviour of some individuals? And there is a difference between me and them: when some Jews do sth wrong (and I know very well there are bad Jews) it's immediately "the Jews" while I preferrably talke about "some <name nationality>". It's a subtle difference, well, perhaps not so subtle, but it proves too subtle for some.

nott:
I am not easily impressed by statements.


"nuff said" is only a replacement for my usual "tiens" as some titties were superstitious concerning the results of the upcoming World Cup. So I replaced it for them while the Championship lasts. After half July it will turn into tiens again.

>^..^<

M-G (nuff said)
bolekThreads: 10
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 Jun 10, 10, 23:43    #20
sobieski:
I was thinking that this Forum is rather an excuse to vent extreme anti-Jewish sentiments...



hmm, makes me think when the Jews show anti Polish sentiments its ok...This is the problem with the Jews if you are not with them you are against them, and branded anti semitic.
IronsideThreads: 56
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 Jun 11, 10, 00:51    #21
MareGaea:
This incident goes to show that the Jews who did this were forced by the occupier to do so. At also, let's not forget that these Poles, although Jews were the forced enforcers, were excecuted by the Nazis.

Well, what do you say about Jedwabne?
I would say the same!
nottThreads: 6
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 Jun 11, 10, 01:12    #22
MareGaea:
nott: Might have confused this and that

Well it's hard to confuse the only thing I said about the topic as such. And I gave you the quote, so it's not that much work after all. It was exactly the same what you said about it.
Quite remarkable for somebody who is just happily jumping into stuff, eh?


I managed to confuse it anyway, me talented bugger and stuff. Want it carved in marble, golden letters, or this single repetition is nuff said? As I said, that was a general impression, and I do not remember bringing any preconceptions about particular people to this forum.


MareGaea:
nott: Point is, you are biased. Strange but true. Like in 'we remember, have learnt from it, and got over with it'. But Poles are 'still whining about being murdered by millions 70 YEARS AGO'. Not quite so, as discussing Holocaust is still illegal, reparation demands loud and clear, but any attempt of 'antisemitic' Poles in this field, without even mentioning money, is just 'stirring sh1t and causing unnecessary tensions between East and West.' Or whatever.

So it's biased to not live in the past, but think about the future instead of the wrongdoings that have happened in the past? What would you gain from it? Nobody denies that the Poles have suffered and in many places throughout Western Europe the brave Poles are honoured for their heroism.


It's biased to deny the right of remembrance to people who suffered muchly. Looks like hypocritical too, after having been granted the benefit of compassion. And money. Seems like gain to me, this one.

There are plenty of people denying the suffering of the Polish nation, or excusing it by the alleged Polish participation in Holocaust, or ********** over the September 1939, or Polish ineptitude in general. Whatever your declared opinions, which I truly welcome, your gut reaction is 'typical Jewish', excuse le mot. And plenty of it.


MareGaea:
I only jump in when it yet again takes an anti-Jewish turn


Last time I saw you jumping was in the thread about Polish-German hatred, or lack of it. Nothing to do with Jews, exceptionally. You contributed with remarks about typical Polish whining.


MareGaea:
because I believe that we've been there, seen it and that it's time to move on. And mind you, that is the general opinion in the West. And I'm just another Westerner in that respect. It's the covert racism that attracts my attention the most; those who want to rationalize it and find somehow "proof" for the justness of their claims.


Actually, I think you are good at heart, only misled a fraction... :) It's easy for the West to bask in the sun of the well-off freedom and peace, and look down their noses at the nations that have just emerged from the sh1thole created by the war.



MareGaea:
But then again, what can be just about disregarding an entire group of ppl based on the behaviour of some individuals?


Like the purported perpetrators of pogrom in Kielce? (with all my typical Polish reservations kept safe)


MareGaea:
And there is a difference between me and them: when some Jews do sth wrong (and I know very well there are bad Jews) it's immediately "the Jews" while I preferrably talke about "some <name nationality>". It's a subtle difference, well, perhaps not so subtle, but it proves too subtle for some.


I've noticed that you know about the bad Jews, that's one of the good reasons that we are talking. I don't see the difference between 'you and them' as big as you do. Routinely adding 'some' doesn't really change that much.


MareGaea:
nott: I am not easily impressed by statements.

"nuff said" is only a replacement for my usual "tiens" as some titties were superstitious concerning the results of the upcoming World Cup. So I replaced it for them while the Championship lasts. After half July it will turn into tiens again.


and I thought it was just you being so high up your as$... stupid Pole me, please accept my sincerest apologies
:)
MareGaeaThreads: 45
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Edited by: MareGaea  Jun 11, 10, 01:31    #23
nott:
It's easy for the West to bask in the sun of the well-off freedom and peace, and look down their noses at the nations that have just emerged from the sh1thole created by the war.


I do appreciate that, but it's not that we in the West didn't care for Poland and all the other countries behind the Iron Curtain, as we called them. On a personal note (and I've said that before, can't remember when) I remember very vividly that when I was young my parents and my brother and me, with other ppl from our village were collecting food and stuff every winter for many years to send to those poor Poles who were suffering so bad. It may not have been much, I agree to that, but at least it was sth and it shows that we did care about them, contrary to what some make believe on here that we in the West didn't give shyte about them. And it feels a bit awkward to hear such things. Maybe on a political level there was not so much love for the Poles, but hey, it was also a war and you guys were considered the enemy.

nott:
I've noticed that you know about the bad Jews, that's one of the good reasons that we are talking. I don't see the difference between 'you and them' as big as you do. Routinely adding 'some' doesn't really change that much.


Since my mom is Jewish I for some reason always got in certain point of my life confronted with other Jews. Usually ppl that I didn't even know. Some were nice, some were hypocrite *ssholes. Just like I met a lot of Dutch who were *ssholes, and a lot who weren't. Same goes for Poles. The first person I met when getting off the train from Berlin to Warsaw (I was literally 20 metres off the train) was a very agressive beggar who didn't ask, but demanded money from me, because I was from "the West" and responsible for his misery. I told him that I felt truly sorry for him, but that it wasn't my fault that he was in such shyte. And also that I didn't have any Zloty on me, which was true, I yet had to exchange. He became very abusive and would have hit me if it weren't for a very friendly policeman (or at least sb in a uniform) who made the guy clear that he should back off. After that I only met friendly ppl in PL, so that kinda balanced my impression. As far as impressions go, I always take person per person.


nott:
please accept my sincerest apologies


Accepted and no offence taken :)

>^..^<

M-G (nuff said)
nottThreads: 6
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 Jun 11, 10, 02:22    #24
MareGaea:
no offence taken

you Jews have no balls at all... :)

I'm too fvcked up today to continue, pray be excused. Will be continued.

Just one parting shot. I had a quick peek at my post, to check what exactly you ignored of the product of my sweat and tears, and you know what? The starred word near September 1939 was '*********'. Fvck, I did it again. 'Sn1ggered', I meant. Never would've suspected to reveal my inbred racism in this sentence. Can you appreciate now, on this hint on my stupidity, that we are a bit different than you in the West, we as a whole, and yet not quite actual untermensche? As a whole, not on person to person basis. Thanks in advance.

Take care, anyway.




Tia. And such a promising debate all but vanished in thin air, like...
MediaWatchThreads: 29
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 Jun 11, 10, 04:01    #25
sobieski:
I was thinking that this Forum is rather an excuse to vent extreme anti-Jewish sentiments...
Anybody heard of the Swietokrzyskie Brigade. A most fascist offspring of the Polish resistance.
Hardened antisemites, betrayed and killed countless Jewish compatriots. And on the end of the war made a deal with the Nazis as to escape the Red Army.

Also I refer to a famous Home Army report to Londonw which simply stated that Polish society was (still is ?) antisemitic to its very core.



Yes Yes of course!

Poles are all horibble terrible anti-semites and Jews always knew this! This is why Jews CHOSE to live in Poland for ONE THOUSAND YEARS LOL You know those Jews they love living in Anti-Semitic countries! Its must be fun for them to do so! As for Jews, they were all angels! As least that's what the Anti-Polish New York Times and Wasington Post always say! Poles are all horrible Anti-Semites and Jews are all wonderful angels!

So in light of this you better not read "Stalin’s Jews" by an honest Israeli

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3342999,00.html

Why it may go against the Politically Correct notion that Poles and East Europeans are all horrible anti-semites and Jews are all as innocent and as pure as angels. At least according to Anti-Polish Bigots like Richard Cohen of the Washington POST.
MareGaeaThreads: 45
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Edited by: MareGaea  Jun 11, 10, 12:16    #26
MediaWatch:
Poles are all horibble terrible anti-semites


Just let me correct a common misconception here. I don't think and I have never thought (and I fact I don't believe I ever said that) that all Poles are anti semites. It's just some ppl here on this forum that are like that. Who use just about anything to vent their vile and hatred, not only against Jews, but also against other minorities. I just think racism is wrong, very wrong. And it's those whom I go against. I have said it before and I will say it again, if I offended anybody in my fight against those individuals (you all know who they are), then I sincerely apologize for that, that was far from my intention, but I think you should also remember that it's those individuals who give Poland and the Polish ppl a bad name and are certainly not good marketing material for the country as they keep the prejudice alive. In short, I never meant to offend any good ppl, but remember that all my remarks concerning this are solely directed at the perpetrators of any form of racism. I just think racism is not of this age anymore as we only have one ball to live on and we all have to try to get along as we don't get any more than this Earth. Why would you waste your time on hatred towards others, it uses up so much energy that could be used for other, more beautiful things and, like I said before, eventually hate will turn against yourself. Hope this is clear now.

>^..^<

M-G (mild)
1jolaThreads: 33
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 Jun 11, 10, 15:05    #27
MareGaea:
I just think racism is wrong, very wrong. And it's those whom I go against. I have said it before and I will say it again

It's getting really old. I remember your thread where you reviewed all the foreign chicks you fvcked and I don't recall any Arab, negro, or Asian men or women you "conquered." All you talked about were white girls. Are you a closet racist? LOL

MareGaea:
I just think racism is not of this age anymore as we only have one ball to live on and we all have to try to get along as we don't get any more than this Earth.

Is this part of your Miss Holland speech?
Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11
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Edited by: Bratwurst Boy  Jun 11, 10, 15:54    #28
MareGaea:
Why would you waste your time on hatred towards others,


It doesn't need to be hate if I want to keep to myself, prefer my own race because we are just more compatible to each other.

When white families leave an area because more and more non-whites settle there, crime rates go up, school quality goes down, the neighbourhood detoriates - that hasn't anything to do with hate most of the time but accepting the realities compared to some rosy multikulti fantasy where all should stay together and live happily in the new lala land.

The Whites should have every right to keep to themselves and to secure that what they have!
But you call that racism...
1jolaThreads: 33
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Edited by: 1jola  Jun 11, 10, 16:13    #29
I read in today's paper that the multi-obssessed psychologists want us to stop calling blacks "Murzyn", which a normal name for a black person in Polish, and not a bit offensive, and start calling them "Afropolak." LOL

We have quite a bit of Vietnamese in Warsaw, perhaps an "Azjopolak" for them. I think they might get pissed then.
BubbaWooThreads: 46
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Joined: Sep 26, 06
 Jun 11, 10, 16:27    #30
1jola:
I think they might get pissed then.


highly likely

most vietnamese have a chromosome missing that means they get pissed very easily - just a couple of sips and they start falling over

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