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What do Poles owe to Russians?


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pawianThreads: 90
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Joined: May 30, 08  Pictures: 2 ♂ 		Edited by: pawian  Apr 13, 11, 00:06    #1
wildrover:
All forum members should be aware by now that anyone who says anything at all that is not positive about Poland...must be a Russian....
And those that point it out are moronic dipsticks...


Nothing is only black or white.

Russia is viewed as an evil empire by many Poles. Rightly so?

How about Hermaszewski, the first and only so far Pole who went into space? Let`s be frank, if not Russians, Poles would have never been able to send him up there.


First Pole in space
12.04.2011 12:29

As the late Yuri Gagarin is remembered on the 50th anniversary of the first man in space, few outside the country will recall Poland’s first and only man in space so far, Brigadier General Miroslaw Hermaszewski.

In 1978, he was singled out from a group of some 500 Polish pilots to take part in the Inter-cosmos space programme with the Soviet Union, ultimately orbiting the earth for eight days in the Salyut 6 space station.

Born in 1941, he was later awarded with the title of 'Hero of the Soviet Union'.


g

http://www.ksiaznica.torun.pl/image/image_gallery?img_id=2721

f


What else?
IronsideThreads: 59
Posts: 6,786
Joined: Feb 26, 09 ♂ 		 Apr 13, 11, 00:32    #2
Yeah Typical late commie approach. Definitely, we own them a good kicking and a century or two of occupation.
By the way, all those soviet types we one to Russian, those who rule in Poland now, we can easily afford and send them to Russia, their real motherland.
the catch is ...they don't want them....having plenty of crap.
pawianThreads: 90
Posts: 5,395
Joined: May 30, 08  Pictures: 2 ♂ 		 Apr 13, 11, 00:41    #3
Ironside:
Yeah Typical late commie approach. Definitely, we own them a good kicking and a century or two of occupation.
By the way, all those soviet types we one to Russian, those who rule in Poland now, we can easily afford and send them to Russia, their real motherland. the catch is ...they don't want them....having plenty of crap.



Standard thinking of a stork, indeed. :):):):)
IronsideThreads: 59
Posts: 6,786
Joined: Feb 26, 09 ♂ 		 Apr 13, 11, 00:56    #4
pawian:
a stork

eh? comrade an explanation is in order.
PlasticPoleThreads: 10
Posts: 5,431
Joined: May 28, 09 ♀ 		 Apr 13, 11, 00:59    #5
pawian:
What else?

If they really wanted Poles to be happy, they should have sent thousands of Poles into space. One Pole isn't enough.
Pro_Svet_SpbThreads: 1
Posts: 61
Joined: Apr 10, 10 ♂ 		 Jun 13, 11, 22:05    #6
Ironside:
Yeah Typical late commie approach. Definitely, we own them a good kicking and a century or two of occupation.


How about that?:

In December, 1938 in the report of 2nd (prospecting) department of a general staff of the Army Polish it was in plain terms specified:

«The partition of Russia underlies the Polish policy in the east... Therefore our possible position will be reduced to the following formula: who will take part in section. Poland shouldn't remain passive during this remarkable historical moment. The problem consists in that it is beforehand good to be prepared physically and spiritually... The Overall objective — easing and defeat of Russia» («Z dziejow stosunkow polsko-radzieckich. Studia i materialy», T.III. Warszawa, 1968, S. 262, 287).
Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11
Posts: 14,563
Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂ 		 Jun 13, 11, 22:14    #7
Pro_Svet_Spb:
«The partition of Russia underlies the Polish policy in the east... Therefore our possible position will be reduced to the following formula: who will take part in section. Poland shouldn't remain passive during this remarkable historical moment. The problem consists in that it is beforehand good to be prepared physically and spiritually... The Overall objective — easing and defeat of Russia» («Z dziejow stosunkow polsko-radzieckich. Studia i materialy», T.III. Warszawa, 1968, S. 262, 287).


Now that is interesting....I always thought Poles had only plans for Berlin....in a week or so...
TorqThreads: 65
Posts: 4,024
Joined: Apr 10, 09  Pictures: 1  Gold Member MEMBER ♂ 		 Jun 13, 11, 22:16    #8
Bratwurst Boy:
I always thought Poles had only plans for Berlin


Why "had"? Why the past tense? ;-)
legendThreads: 9
Posts: 819
Joined: Apr 23, 11 ♂ 		 Jun 13, 11, 22:18    #9
Bratwurst Boy:
Now that is interesting....I always thought Poles had only plans for Berlin....in a week or so...


Did those plans come true anytime soon? No.

Word are words man.

Even though the following is NOT true here is media take:

Mr Ahmedijad: We shall wipe Israel of the Map of Earth
America and Israel: Oh no he really means it. Prepares for war.

Again Mr A. didnt actually say that but you understand.
IronsideThreads: 59
Posts: 6,786
Joined: Feb 26, 09 ♂ 		Edited by: Ironside  Jun 13, 11, 22:20    #10
Bratwurst Boy:
Now that is interesting.

Why don't you go FY?
Pro_Svet_Spb:
How about that?:

What about what >?Could you specify?
Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11
Posts: 14,563
Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂ 		Edited by: Bratwurst Boy  Jun 13, 11, 22:23    #11
Torq:
Why "had"? Why the past tense? ;-)


Ouch! ;)

But really...now it's even more mystifying why Poles didn't join forces with Germany and the anti-comintern....we could have pooled our resources...
legendThreads: 9
Posts: 819
Joined: Apr 23, 11 ♂ 		 Jun 13, 11, 22:28    #12
Bratwurst Boy:
Ouch! ;)

But really...now it's even more mystifying why Poles didn't join forces with Germany....we could have pooled our resources...


When in pre WWII? Against Russia?
Hitler didnt like Jews or Slavs (especially Poles) he would attack Russia and then probably Poland (speculation but certainly possible).
Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11
Posts: 14,563
Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂ 		Edited by: Bratwurst Boy  Jun 13, 11, 22:31    #13
legend:
Hitler didnt like Jews or Slavs (especially Poles) he would attack Russia and then probably Poland (speculation but certainly possible).


Hitler invited Poland to an alliance against Soviet-Russia....Poland declined.

I only wonder why, as they seemingly had similiar plans with Russia as Hitler had.

Pro_Svet_Spb:
The partition of Russia underlies the Polish policy in the east.
Pro_Svet_SpbThreads: 1
Posts: 61
Joined: Apr 10, 10 ♂ 		 Jun 13, 11, 22:35    #14
Ironside:
What about what >?Could you specify? we own them a good kicking and a century or two of occupation


Poland was going to occupy NOT SIMPLY Russia, but also to destroy:

On September, 25th, 1938 in conversation with the American colleague the Polish ambassador in Paris Lukasevich has declared:

«Religious war between fascism and the Bolshevism begins, and in case of rendering of the help of Czechoslovakia by Soviet Union Poland is ready to war from the USSR shoulder to shoulder with Germany. The Polish government is assured that within three months Russian armies will be completely crushed also Russia won't represent more even similarity of the state».

I think we are quits.
RobertLeeThreads: 12
Posts: 133
Joined: May 26, 11 ♂ 		 Jun 13, 11, 22:43    #15
legend:
Hitler didnt like Jews or Slavs (especially Poles) he would attack Russia and then probably Poland (speculation but certainly possible).

He did accept the help of Croatians.
The alliance was in fact proposed, problem is, Hitler would like to move Poland eastwards, somewhere east of Dnieper probably, cause for him it wasn't just about freeing the world of Bolsheviks, it was about Lebensraum, land and resources.

Bratwurst Boy:
I always thought Poles had only plans for Berlin....in a week or so...

Too much reading of Volkischer Beobachter?
Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11
Posts: 14,563
Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂ 		Edited by: Bratwurst Boy  Jun 13, 11, 22:53    #16
RobertLee:
Too much reading of Volkischer Beobachter?


Nope...Rydz-Smigly in March 1939

Oh, and the Daily Mail, August 1939

Polish Marshal Rydz-Smigly:"...Poland wants war with Germany and Germany will not be able to avoid it even if she wants to...."
pawianThreads: 90
Posts: 5,395
Joined: May 30, 08  Pictures: 2 ♂ 		 Jun 13, 11, 23:01    #17
Ironside:
Definitely, we own them a good kicking and a century or two of occupation.


Yes, it is true. But you can`t deny the fact that Russians liberated us from Nazis in 1944-45. For Poles that meant another occupation. Yet, Poland was reborn in 1945 (though under the Soviet rule) while Nazis had planned a gradual enslavement and destruction of the Polish nation.

When the German army invaded Poland in September 1939, the Nazis were determinated to transform Poland into a huge reserve of slave labor ready to be used by the German war industry. In order to reach this goal, the Nazis adopted a policy immediately:
* To exterminate the Polish elite (professors, lawyers, scientists, etc...).
* To exterminate any potential opponent.
* To close all places of education (school, college, universities) excepting primary and vocational schools.
* To forbid any cultural or political activities under death sentence.
* To create an exclusively German Zone by confiscating all private property and or simply killing the original Polish population.


For some Poles the Red Army march to the west meant survival:

Skalbmierz:

The town of Skalbmierz to the north of Krakow was one of many Polish settlements which experienced the horror of pacification during WW2. It was raided by joint German-Ukrainian forces (about 900 men) on 5 August 1944 while the Eastern front was close. Germans wanted to punish the town for its too close ties with partisans. Actually, the whole region of Pińczów was partisan infested. It is the land known for tough people, in the rest of Poland they are called Penknives, almost as tough as Highlanders.

Local Polish partisans tried to defend the town but greatly outnumbered in men and weapons got dispersed and had to retreat. Afterwards hell was unleashed because German occupants and their Ukrainian scum renegade helpers started murdering the inhabitants.
The commander of the dispersed partisan unit was fatally wounded and taken prisoner. His name was Franciszek Pudo, in conspiracy known as Sokół (Hawk). A German officer tried to interrrogate the partisan but without result, though they tortured him. Eventually, Pudo tore off the bandage off his head and threw it into German officer`s face. The latter ordered Ukrainians to execute the partisan, and they stabbed him with bayonettes.

The extermination of the residents continued. When more partisans arrived to the site to defend it, the battle began. In the evening, two Soviet tanks, which broke through the nearby front line, helped Polish partisans to repel the enemy.

64 inhabitants of the town were murdered, about 25 partisans were killed, and 100 Germans and Ukrainians. You can see the whole event on the monument`s carvings, together with the list of executed people, including infants and kids.

d

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IronsideThreads: 59
Posts: 6,786
Joined: Feb 26, 09 ♂ 		Edited by: Ironside  Jun 13, 11, 23:28    #18
Pro_Svet_Spb:
I think we are quits.

Eh? You are a funny dude. Some contingency plans of a general staff which every army of the world has. I'm sure Russian army today have plans of an attack on Poland.
It never come to be.
Are you comparing to what Russia in this disguise or other did to Poland?
I guess you have no point and we are not even.

pawian:
But you can`t deny the fact that Russians liberated us from Nazis in 1944-45.

Well, yes but without Stalin the war would not had started.
pawianThreads: 90
Posts: 5,395
Joined: May 30, 08  Pictures: 2 ♂ 		 Jun 13, 11, 23:34    #19
pawian:
The commander of the dispersed partisan unit was fatally wounded and taken prisoner. His name was Franciszek Pudo, in conspiracy known as Sokół (Hawk). A German officer tried to interrrogate the partisan but without result, though they tortured him. Eventually, Pudo tore off the bandage off his head and threw it into German officer`s face. The latter ordered Ukrainians to execute the partisan, and they stabbed him with bayonettes.



This man is worth our rememberance:

d

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RobertLeeThreads: 12
Posts: 133
Joined: May 26, 11 ♂ 		 Jun 13, 11, 23:41    #20
Bratwurst Boy:
Nope...Rydz-Smigly in March 1939

The last known German who tried to suggest such things was Erika Steinbach. Your German compatriots concluded she is nuts.
David_18Threads: 111
Posts: 1,212
Joined: Jan 4, 07 ♂ 		 Jun 13, 11, 23:44    #21
We owe them a kick in the butt.
legendThreads: 9
Posts: 819
Joined: Apr 23, 11 ♂ 		Edited by: legend  Jun 13, 11, 23:46    #22
pawian:
When the German army invaded Poland in September 1939, the Nazis were determinated to transform Poland into a huge reserve of slave labor ready to be used by the German war industry. In order to reach this goal, the Nazis adopted a policy immediately:
* To exterminate the Polish elite (professors, lawyers, scientists, etc...).
* To exterminate any potential opponent.
* To close all places of education (school, college, universities) excepting primary and vocational schools.
* To forbid any cultural or political activities under death sentence.
* To create an exclusively German Zone by confiscating all private property and or simply killing the original Polish population.


I agree mostly with the remainder of your post but...

The Russians also exterminated Polish elite.
The Russians also took over Poland.

Ironside:
Well, yes but without Stalin the war would not had started.


Thats speculation. There is no proof of this.
Hitler wanted Gdansk/Danzig and probably at least western Poland (perhaps east Poland to finish it off).
RobertLeeThreads: 12
Posts: 133
Joined: May 26, 11 ♂ 		 Jun 13, 11, 23:54    #23
legend:
The Russians also exterminated Polish elite.
The Russians also took over Poland.


Interestingly, Timothy Snyder in his book "Bloodlands" stated that the most persecuted ethnic group in the second half of 1930s, were not German Jews, but Poles living in the Soviet Union - 600 000 of them.
Pro_Svet_SpbThreads: 1
Posts: 61
Joined: Apr 10, 10 ♂ 		 Jun 14, 11, 00:00    #24
Ironside:
Eh? You are a funny dude. Some contingency plans of a general staff which every army of the world has...

On April, 25th, 1920 — Poland without declaration of war has attacked Russia which is bleeding profusely in civil war, and under the Riga contract has appropriated a part of the Ukrainian and Belorussian earths.

In October, 1920 the Polish armies have grasped Vilno and Vilensky area at Lithuania, inconsiderately having broken the Suvalksky contract.

The USSR never started 1st against Poland, so what do you expect?

I agree that Stalin is bad, but it is revolution made the Stalin and if you read the history, you will find were the revolution came from.. and on who's money made...
pawianThreads: 90
Posts: 5,395
Joined: May 30, 08  Pictures: 2 ♂ 		Edited by: pawian  Jun 14, 11, 00:01    #25
legend:
The Russians also exterminated Polish elite.
The Russians also took over Poland.



Not exactly.

Germans planned to exterminate all Polish elite members, all and sundry.

In 1945 and later, Soviets exterminated those who were openly against communism, mainly AK patriots.
delphiandomineThreads: 42
Posts: 9,954
Joined: Nov 25, 08 ♂ [Suspended] 		 Jun 14, 11, 00:02    #26
RobertLee:
Interestingly, Timothy Snyder in his book "Bloodlands" stated that the most persecuted ethnic group in the second half of 1930s, were not German Jews, but Poles living in the Soviet Union - 600 000 of them.


What's even more interesting is that Poles had their own autonomous areas, whereas minorities in Poland were deprived of this.
David_18Threads: 111
Posts: 1,212
Joined: Jan 4, 07 ♂ 		 Jun 14, 11, 00:04    #27
pawian:
Soviets exterminated only those who opposed communism.

Kidding me right?

What about the soviets encouraging the local peasents to murder the Szlachta because they were to blame for evevrything bad that ever happend?
SeanusThreads: 22
Posts: 30,158
Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂ 		 Jun 14, 11, 00:05    #28
All those in Katyń opposed communism? How do you know? Besides, that's no reason to exterminate them as they could always have attempted conversion.

Poles owe Russians understanding and vice versa. They owe each other vodka sessions with fingers up to previous governments and pathetic ideology that doesn't represent the hearts of the people.
pawianThreads: 90
Posts: 5,395
Joined: May 30, 08  Pictures: 2 ♂ 		 Jun 14, 11, 00:06    #29
David_18:
What about the soviets encouraging the local peasents to murder the Szlachta because they were to blame for evevrything bad that ever happend?


When? In 1945? I know nothing about it. Please, elaborate.
Pro_Svet_SpbThreads: 1
Posts: 61
Joined: Apr 10, 10 ♂ 		 Jun 14, 11, 00:08    #30
RobertLee:
but Poles living in the Soviet Union - 600 000 of them.


Never knew that....

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