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Do Poles really blame Britain for Poland becoming Communist after the war?


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PWEIThreads: 5
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Edited by: Moderator  Oct 21, 11, 21:07    #91
Blue Izzie:
I really am just curious as to what course of action people think Britain could have taken to save Poland from being Communist.


wroclaw:
this ^ is the point of the thread.


Hint taken. Sorry for making you repeat yourself.

isthatu2Threads: 13
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 Oct 21, 11, 21:22    #92
All these numbers being touted are a silly waste of time.
Simple break down of actual fighting forces paints an entirely different picture.
NW Europe =One Armoured Division( 16,000 men) and for 1 week of fighting part of an Airborne brigade.
Italy,=Two Infantry Divisions and One Armoured Brigade ( approx 50,000 men).

Thats it.
The rest were what was termed in the Napoleonic era, Camp Followers.
polmedThreads: 2
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 Oct 21, 11, 22:01    #93
PWEI:
When the war in Europe was coming to an end, the Polish troops fighting at the side of the Western Allies numbered more than 210 thousand soldiers



Read the main page with understanding , you are giving just a number of troops engaged in certain campaign called land battles 1941-1945 and also it is the number at the end of the war of those soldiers who survived , altrough you don`t comprehend properly , but let me tell you something , maybe you should consider the fact that tens of thousands of Polish soldiers died during campaigns throughout 6 years of war . The cited by you line states the time of the end of the war . During the war Polish regular army troops losses were estimated as 160 000 .




2 millions of Polish soldiers comes form regular army troops engaged in western and eastern fronts , underground army forces , partisan troops . In the final stage of war the Polish troops on all the European fronts amounted to some 600 000 soldiers (infantry, armored troops, aircraft and navy) It says those who were alive and formed regular army !!!!!!

It doesn`t count underground army and partisan troops alive or dead !!!!!!!

Let`s summarise :regular army troops who participated in the IIWW were estimated as high as : alive 600 000 + dead 160 000= 760 000 .
THE HITMANThreads: 1
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 Oct 21, 11, 22:26    #94
PWEI:
Here we go: Ilford Park Polish Home

Scrapping the barrel kid. Housing old vets in the 80 -90yr age band is hardly a drain on the British taxpayer now, is it ?
How long do you think they,ll live ?
They,re probably entitled to the privilege having paid dues like other WORKING people.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/7622866.stm

Look at the condititions these people lived in, and accepted. Do you know what " exiled " means ?

PWEI:
You can apologise for that comment any time you want.

You must be joking........ like I said " complete rubbish ".

Digging up petty articles with no substance doesn,t really back up your statements. Think again. ( no insult intended )
magpieThreads: 7
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Edited by: magpie  Oct 21, 11, 22:36    #95
THE HITMAN:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/7622866.stm



"...Their days are spent making intricate embroidery, singing traditional Polish songs and dancing Polish dances. ..."


And you can't take photos of them as they think is steals their souls? Really? What, all day, every day?

Is that not a bit of condescending 19th century style journalism?
RetroDog  Oct 21, 11, 22:46    #96
PWEI is getting amnesia from time to time.
In thread about Battle of Britain we were talking about claims of sq 303.
He is comparing daily claims against German records of losses, wich were lowered. He is forgetting that in some days whole RAF were claiming more shot Germans than German's loses.
hythornThreads: 6
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 Oct 21, 11, 22:53    #97
RetroDog:
He is forgetting that in some days whole RAF were claiming more shot Germans than German's loses.


good point

and that is normal as pilots would often shoot at multiple planes and if they saw one of them crash then you would have several people claiming they had shot down a plane. One of the reasons for the Germans changing tactics in the battle of Britain was that their pilots were doing the same thing and Goering was convinced the RAF was on its last legs based on reports he was getting from the Luftwaffe. When the Luftwaffe flew into Mallorey's Big Wing, they were amazed where all the British planes had magically appeared from
polmedThreads: 2
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 Oct 21, 11, 22:54    #98
magpie:
"...Their days are spent making intricate embroidery, singing traditional Polish songs and dancing Polish dances. ..."

And you can't take photos of them as they think is steals their souls? Really? What, all day, every day?

Is that not a bit of condescending 19th century style journalism?


They are all very old people 90 , 80 years old , what do you think they should do ?
magpieThreads: 7
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 Oct 21, 11, 22:55    #99
Dance, apparently.
polmedThreads: 2
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 Oct 21, 11, 23:33    #100
here is a link for free download of free book :

http://www.firstload.com/?uniq=4684ea1e47f854e1&log=47382&fn=division+ 303+fiedler+in+english+version

where you can find interesting facts concerning the subject of this thread .
JonnyMThreads: 16
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Edited by: JonnyM  Oct 21, 11, 23:53    #101
polmed:
here is a link for free download of free book :

Be careful about clicking on the link that polonthemeds/retrodog/Moania has just given - It could be harmful to your computer
PWEIThreads: 5
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 Oct 22, 11, 03:39    #102
polmed:
Let`s summarise :regular army troops who participated in the IIWW were estimated as high as : alive 600 000 + dead 160 000= 760 000 .

OK, let's take your number: you claimed two million plus, so where are the remaining +1,260,000?

THE HITMAN:
Scrapping the barrel kid. Housing old vets in the 80 -90yr age band is hardly a drain on the British taxpayer now, is it ?
How long do you think they,ll live ?
They,re probably entitled to the privilege having paid dues like other WORKING people.

I said nothing about numbers: I said that some were where they had been since they'd left the Polish army.
You want to speak about who pays for whom, you source facts. Until then, kindly withdraw and apologise.

THE HITMAN:
Digging up petty articles with no substance doesn,t really back up your statements. Think again. ( no insult intended )

Interesting that to you the BBC publishes "petty articles" and that the British government agency which pays for the Poles makes statements "with no substance". Really dude: you just got your arse handed to you who has forgotten more about this subject than you'll ever know: walk away with a shred of integrity intact. No insult intended.
TeffleThreads: 28
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 Oct 22, 11, 04:06    #103
Polmed, is it possible for you to make one, accurate, unbiased, statement, ever???
polmedThreads: 2
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 Oct 22, 11, 10:42    #104
PWEI:
+1,260,000



Your idiocy is so appalling that I can`t believe that it can exist : READ my post nb 93 - remaining troops were in underground army and partisan army and also intelligence . .

I am not going to spoil my weekend with your trollish posts . So go ahead and search for yourself for more information about these two formations .

Here is a link to polish war underground :

you can google translate this websites

http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armia_Krajowa

http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polskie_Pa%C5%84stwo_Podziemne

The most spectacular achievement of the intelligence was working out the research center and factory in Penenmünde, which built the rocket V 1 and V 2 The first information obtained in autumn 1942 and in March 1943 was sent to London a detailed report. This allowed the British to conduct a massive bomb attack (17/18 August 1943), which for many months stopped plans to build Wunderwaffe.

According to the latest findings of the Polish-British Historical Commission for Documenting Activities of Polish Intelligence during World War II, the information provided by Polish intelligence accounted for 45% of all allied materials. The documents the committee, it also follows that in the Polish intelligence worked at least 20 000 agents.
Just in 1944, Polish intelligence provided for the British nearly 38,000 reports over 12,000 for Americans and nearly a thousand for Frenchmen. From this, according to the British ratings, 85% is about a very high or high quality, another 12% had information valuable, 2% less valuable, and only 1% of the information was considered worthless. It turns out that the Polish intelligence was one of the best and most effective in the war, and perhaps even the best.

http://dumnizpolski.pl/content/view/54/36/

Look how huge was the structure of polish underground and it was divided by :rightist formations like AK , ZWZ , NSZ and also leftist formations like BCH


http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polski_ruch_oporu_w_czasie_II_wojny_%C5%9 Bwiatowej


The armed forces of the Polish resistance movement in 1944 numbered more than 500 thousand. people, including nearly 150 thousand. fought in partisan units. Was carried out about 10 thousand. military actions, which killed over 150 thousand. German soldiers, police, Gestapo agents and officials. Momentum has been made possible by the massive participation and support of the resistance by Polish society, which, moreover, led the fight against the civilian with the Nazis.

http://www.gdynia.mm.pl/~drake87/drake87/2/27/2716.html

The book "MI6: The History of the Secret Intelligence Service", whose author is a professor. Keith Jeffery of Queen's University Belfast, cites the opinion of Wilfred Dunderdale'a, liaison officer between the SIS (Secret Intelligence Service - MI6 another name) and the history of the Polish General Staff in London (the two), from June 1943. In a memo to his superiors the author points out that the Polish intelligence had at that time 30 networks in occupied and neutral countries in Europe,

Large service SIS also gave Mieczyslaw Slowikowski, who created one of the most effective intelligence networks - "Agency Africa." Her reports served the Americans and British to plan the operation of the marine Torch landings in November 1942 in North Africa. Słowikowski served as a prototype of the hero's famous film "Casablanca" with Humphrey Bogart and Ingrid Bergman.

Now get away , you troll.
polmedThreads: 2
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 Oct 22, 11, 10:54    #105
It is just a structure of Polish Underground State :

http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polskie_Pa%C5%84stwo_Podziemne
PWEIThreads: 5
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Edited by: PWEI  Oct 22, 11, 12:09    #106
polmed:
Your idiocy is so appalling that I can`t believe that it can exist : READ my post nb 93 - remaining troops were in underground army and partisan army and also intelligence . .

According to the source you offer up as the word of God, there were 340,000 in the Polish underground army: those men are counted in the 880,000. Are you claiming that there were 1,112,000 in the Polish intelligence?!

polmed:
The armed forces of the Polish resistance movement in 1944 numbered more than 500 thousand. people,

Well done, you found a source which says there were 160,000 more than in your previous source: now you are only 952,000 short on your claim of two million. Although we should of course subtract the 375,000 Poles who joined the Nazi army, so we can assess Poland's net contribution to the war.

I sometimes wonder if some Poles blaming Britain for things such as Poland becoming communist is due to their utter ignorance of history and refusal to accept historical facts: you certainly offer very good support for that theory.
polmedThreads: 2
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 Oct 22, 11, 12:32    #107
polmed:
The armed forces of the Polish resistance movement in 1944 numbered more than 500 thousand. people, including nearly 150 thousand. fought in partisan units


You troll may add to that number you deliberately omitted +500 000 troops in underground forces + 20 000 in intelligence units .


It is not me who claims but official sources :

http://www.ww2.pl/Polish,Military,Effort,during,Second,World,War,21.ht ml

For the entire period of the war there also existed the very important “silent front” – the intelligence. Probably up to 2 millions Poles served since September 1st, 1939 to May 8th, 1945 in all the Polish military formations – regular armies, partisan troops and underground forces.

You should invest in a books :


• ed. Edward Pawłowski, Wojsko Polskie w II Wojnie Światowej, Warszawa 1995
• Józef Garliński, Poland in the Second World War, 1939-1945, London 1985
• Alexander B. Rossion, Hitler Strikes Poland. Blitzkrieg, Ideology, and Atrocity, Kansas 2003
• Steven J. Zaloga, Poland 1939. The Birth of Blitzkrieg, London 2002
• Paweł Wieczorkiewicz, Kampania 1939 roku, Warszawa 2001
• Marek Ney-Krwawicz, The Polish Home Army, 1939-1945, London 2001
• Stefan Korboński, The Polish Underground State: A Guide to the Underground 1939-1945, Boulder 1979
• Norman Davies, Rising ’44. “The Battle for Warsaw”, London 2004
• Adam Zamoyski, The Forgotten Few: The Polish Air Force in the Second World War, New York 1996
• Lenne Olson, Stanley Cloud, A Question of Honour. The Kosciuszko squadron: forgotten heroes of World War II, New York 2003
• Jerzy Pertek, Mała flota wielka duchem, Poznań 1989
• Michael A. Peszke, Poland’s Navy 1918-1945, New York 1999
• Margaret Brodniewicz-Stawicki, For your freedom and ours: the Polish Armed Forces in the Second World War, St. Catharines, Ont. 1999
• Witold Biegański, Siły Zbrojne na Zachodzie, 1939-1945, Warszawa 1990
• Czesław Grzelak, Henryk Stańczyk, Stefan Zwoliński, Armia Berlinga i Żymierskiego. Wojsko polskie na froncie wschodnim 1943-1945, Warszawa 2002
• Andrzej Pepłoński, Wywiad Polskich Sił Zbrojnych na Zachodzie, 1939-1945, Warszawa 1995
• Piotr Matusak, Wywiad Związku Walki Zbrojnej – Armii Krajowej 1939-1945, Warszawa 2002
• Władysław Kozaczuk, Jerzy Straszak, Enigma: how the Poles broke the Nazi code, New York 2004


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