How Polish history is viewed by other countries textbooks

BasilThreads: 2 Posts: 14 Joined: Apr 22, 10 ♂	Edited by: Basil May 18, 10, 07:38 #1
Interesting interview with Polish historian prof Adam Suchonski The gist of it is that Poland is universally recognized only in the light of events of 1980-1990 period - the fall of communism. http://www.polityka.pl/kraj/rozmowy/1505364,1,rozmowa-z-prof-adamem-su chonskim.read

southernThreads: 116 Posts: 10,955 Joined: May 17, 07 ♂	May 18, 10, 09:18 #2
Basil: How Polish history is viewed by other countries textbooks Our textbooks mention only how Poles fought against the Turks.

Mr GrunwaldThreads: 34 Posts: 2,358 Joined: Dec 16, 08 ♂	May 18, 10, 09:42 #3
In the Norwegian one there was about Copernicus&1939 (we didn't do the cold war much we could only make it to end of WW2) Maybe something about Narvik 1940 but I am not sure

ConstantineKThreads: 35 Posts: 1,949 Joined: May 10, 07 ♂	May 18, 10, 12:38 #4
It seems to me that Russian textbooks contain most detailed and unbiased information on polish subject.

1jolaThreads: 33 Posts: 2,737 Joined: Sep 23, 08 ♂	May 18, 10, 13:21 #5
ConstantineK: It seems to me that Russian textbooks contain most detailed and unbiased information on polish subject. Splendid. Can you quote what it says about 17 September 1939?

hague1cmaeronThreads: 21 Posts: 1,652 Joined: Mar 30, 10 ♂	May 18, 10, 13:21 #6
ConstantineK: It seems to me that Russian textbooks contain most detailed and unbiased information on polish subject. I will take your word for it Costa....

guzzlerThreads: 6 Posts: 165 Joined: Mar 28, 10 ♂	May 18, 10, 15:22 #7
The average British or Irish person of my generation knew very little about the history of Poland. Except that Britain declared war on Germany because they invaded Poland (please note I said the average) people who knew more was because of family connections or Polish friends. When I tell people all Europe would be Muslim today if the Poles had not stop them they look at my with surprise.

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May 18, 10, 15:38 #8

guzzler:

The average British or Irish person of my generation knew very little about the history of Poland.

Why would any generation know any indepth history of Poland?..We have our own rich history and we concentrated on Northern Europe and the events there which involved us, along with countries we colonised..We only get 2 double periods a week...I dont expect your "average" English person really cared about Polands' history. I doubt your "average" Brit could name our Kings and Queens from the 10th century! Or tell me what the Peterloo Massacar was!

guzzler:

When I tell people all Europe would be Muslim today if the Poles had not stop them they look at my with surprise.

I think its a bit more complicated than that.

♂

Edited by: Bratwurst Boy May 18, 10, 15:43 #9

...
Why are the partitions of the watershed, rather than, for example, the Battle of Grunwald, or the discovery of Copernicus?

The partitions were and remain a historical shock, because the map of Europe disappeared one of the largest countries. Contributed to the citizens themselves abusing the Republic of liberum veto, as well as institutions of power, because the Diet approve each partition. It had been noticed and commented. As for Grunwald, is - apart from its neighbors - the battle is virtually unknown in Europe.

As for Copernicus - the world's books emphasize rather its German origins, but also writes about the Polish astronomer. Or a European scholar, which is a neutral solution, because in those days there was no national consciousness in the modern sense. Was measured by today's yardsticks, European!...

Interesting! :)
Agreeable I would say...

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May 18, 10, 17:16 #10

Amathyst:

Why would any generation know any indepth history of Poland?..We have our own rich history and we concentrated on Northern Europe and the events there which involved us, along with countries we colonised..We only get 2 double periods a week...I dont expect your "average" English person really cared about Polands' history. I doubt your "average" Brit could name our Kings and Queens from the 10th century! Or tell me what the Peterloo Massacar was!

I suppose if I reversed the question and asked what the average Pole knows about British history I might get a similar response. And I take on board what you say about two periods of history a week your head crammed with dates and milestones in British history to get them through an exams. Made so uninteresting that a pupil would never want to pick up a history book again. I never picked up a history book until I was in my early twenties and funny enough that was about the Corn Laws.

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Edited by: Amathyst May 18, 10, 17:47 #11

guzzler:

Made so uninteresting that a pupil would never want to pick up a history book again.

I enjoy history..But Im more concerend about my own countries history....It was the common man (and woman) that made it a better place.....

guzzler:

enough that was about the Corn Laws.

Well, you see most people dont quite understand why most large cities have buildings called "The Corn Exchange" or in fact their importance in times gone by..

Anyway I digress..You really shouldnt judge British people..A considerable amount are well travelled and well educated and you might be surprised to find that History is one of the most popular degrees taken by Brits ;0)

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May 18, 10, 19:10 #12

Amathyst:

I enjoy history..But Im more concerend about my own countries history....

I'm glad you do enjoy history I believe it is tremendously important to take pride in the achievements of ones country.

Amathyst:

Well, you see most people dont quite understand why most large cities have buildings called "The Corn Exchange" or in fact their importance in times gone by..

When my kids were young we were members of English Heritage because my wife and I thought it would bring history alive for them. And later on they told me it did help it gave them a visual impact when they learned about Kings and castles.

Amathyst:

Anyway I digress..You really shouldnt judge British people..A considerable amount are well travelled and well educated and you might be surprised to find that History is one of the most popular degrees taken by Brits ;0)

I never judge British people in a poor light my Grandparents on both sides are English my wife and children and Grandchildren are English. My brother and I are the only Paddies in the family it can get a bit hectic at family gatherings sometimes. As regards education I am well aware that we have a more highly educated class then we ever had. And I am proud of that because my girls and Grandchildren and my brother and sisters children are part of that group. What gives me the pip are people who are constantly running down the country like an old git I met at the library this morning and I told him to read some history.

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Edited by: MareGaea May 18, 10, 19:19 #13

In the standard history books in NL, Poland is mentioned in the context of the German/Russian invasion of September 1939, how brutal the Nazi occupation was, Solidarnosc and the "revolution" of 1989/1991. Copernicus and Chopin are also subjects.

At university I learned about the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, the partitions of PL, the independence of 1918 (though briefly and in the wider context of the creation of states like Czechoslowakia and so on), of course WW2, the Cold War (albeit only sideways) and the "revolution" of 1989/1991. During 1991 and the years after that, I focused more on Yugoslavia.

>^..^<

M-G (tiens)

SouthMancPolakThreads: 2 Posts: 202 Joined: Apr 10, 10 ♂	May 18, 10, 19:43 #14
Amathyst: Well, you see most people dont quite understand why most large cities have buildings called "The Corn Exchange" or in fact their importance in times gone by.. Renaming them stupid things like "The Triangle" and turning them into faceless shopping centres doesn't help much, either ;)

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May 18, 10, 23:01 #15

I'm afraid I've read nothing about Poland in my history books. (Or so little I can't remember!) I've seen plenty about it on the news though, especially after that blasted wall came down! I was three or four back then, and I was wondering why all these people were making such a fuss about a wall. (I didn't get it back then!) I used to have a friend who grew up in Holland later on in my life. He was born in Poland, so he told me a few things but it's not like he could tell me much! (He left Poland at the age of five or something!) To be honest Poland was a bit of a mystery to most of us. (Which made me curious!)

:)

So there you have it!

♂

Edited by: ConstantineK May 19, 10, 12:24 #16

1jola:

ConstantineK:
It seems to me that Russian textbooks contain most detailed and unbiased information on polish subject.
Splendid. Can you quote what it says about 17 September 1939?

Well, I am not that young to quote books I had studied many years ago. But I perfectly remember that even by the time I left school, I left it in 1993, all textbooks had clearly

1. Accused all three partitions
2. Accused Molotov-Ribbentrop pact
3. Praised Kostushko
4. Mentioned Katyn massacre as Stalin's misdeed

You can ask Sasha, for he is younger,post here some quotation in Russian, which may be translated with Borrka's help. I would like to be honest with you, this fact is some sort of affront to me, but unfortunately it is true. Soviet/Russian historiography, from my personal point of view, had too soft spot for Polish state.

southernThreads: 116 Posts: 10,955 Joined: May 17, 07 ♂	May 19, 10, 12:40 #17
ConstantineK: all textbooks had clearly 1. Accused all three partitions 2. Accused Molotov-Ribbentrop pact 3. Praised Kostushko 4. Mentioned Katyn massacre as Stalin's misdeed Did they praise Moscow capture by Poles?

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May 19, 10, 19:30 #18

southern:

Did they praise Moscow capture by Poles?

southern:

undefined

Certainly, this fact is viewed with satisfaction, for, it was quite favorable for us. Even more, it was one of those rare moments, the real touch of God. And if you want to know my personal opinion, well, we should thank you for Polish invasion, because it was key stone of the formation of pure Russian, i.e. without any traces of religion, conciousness

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May 19, 10, 20:52 #19

Actually the Slavonic nations of the East-Europe share the same history.
On the contrary to the rest of the world.

There are only some nuances in interpretation of facts and different valuation given to some personalities by local (national) historians.
And as usual the best example makes Mr Bohdan Kmelnitsky - a national hero for Ukrainians, top agent for Kremlin (kinda old fashioned Stierlitz) and Polish traitor for us Poles LOL.

JurgisThreads: 1 Posts: 6 Joined: May 19, 10 ♂	May 19, 10, 23:53 #20
Hello everybody. I could share my experience about lithuanian textbooks, which I think are pretty accurate. It gives pretty much details about polish history. But the most important thing I think is not was is written, but how you interpret it. That's why you need a good teacher.

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May 20, 10, 00:11 #21

guzzler:

When I tell people all Europe would be Muslim today if the Poles had not stop them they look at my with surprise.

They'd probably be even more surprised if you told them that had it not been for the victory at Vienna the French would probably not have had cause to celebrate the victory over the "crescent" by making croissants!

Basil:

How Polish history is viewed by other countries textbooks

My grade 11 standard history textbook contained little on Poland except to say that it was the first country invaded in WW2 with a standard picture of Polish cavalry on maneuvres captioned as being "Polish cavalry preparing to charge German tanks".

joepilsudskiThreads: 44 Posts: 2,529 Joined: Apr 27, 07 ♂	Edited by: joepilsudski May 22, 10, 20:26 #22
In US textbooks, barring some specialized literature at University level, Polish history doesn't exist, except for WWII stories of the German invasion, with descriptions of Panzer divisions and Luftwaffe being opposed by Polish cavalry charges...Also, you will find no mention of Soviet invasion of Eastern Poland...It didn't happen, you see?

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May 23, 10, 22:02 #23

This story of the Poles facing the Blitzkrieg on horseback is an interesting one......some modern historians say that this is not true (sure there were cavalry division here & there), but that Hitler intentionally spread this propaganda to lull the West into thinking Poland fell so quickly because of the "backwardness" of the Poles......I wonder just how true this story is.

It is definitely in many US history books...

1jolaThreads: 33 Posts: 2,737 Joined: Sep 23, 08 ♂	May 24, 10, 08:50 #24
iLikePiwo: It is definitely in many US history books... I don't believe that. iLikePiwo: some modern historians say that this is not true (sure there were cavalry division here & there), Kid, only because you are too lazy to look up basic information, you can say something stupid like that. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charge_at_Krojanty#Aftermath_and_the_myth

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Edited by: Bratwurst Boy May 24, 10, 09:05 #25

Not to mention that it would be rather uncommon to degrade your own achievements with talking down your enemy.

Last I've read it was an american journo who cabled something like polish cavalry near german tanks which were made to "cavalry against tanks".

It must have been the same who cabled that "Hitler chewed his carpet"....another longstanding curiosity. In German if one goes up and down a room quickly (being agitated) it's called something like "carpet chewing"...the media took that the wrong way too.

richasisThreads: 5 Posts: 833 Joined: Jul 25, 09 ♂	May 24, 10, 09:14 #26
1jola: iLikePiwo: It is definitely in many US history books... I don't believe that. I too don't believe this. And I teach.

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May 24, 10, 22:22 #27

I was born in the US and graduated from an American public high school in 1984.

It is true that there were paintings of Poles on horseback with swords raised shown in our history books. But the Polish calvary in these paintings were charging not at tanks, but at cannons on wheels (caissons). The paintings were of Poland and Russia during the Polish-Russian War, perhaps, but they certainly were not of Poland and Germany during WWII.

In college, I was told there was this myth about Poles on horseback fighting German tanks with swords. I was told it was a rumor that originated as propaganda, designed by Poles to encourage Polish Americans to enlist in the US Army during World War II.

I have also been told upon moving here to Poland, that Hitler made up this rumor to belittle Poles, whose fighting forces he actually feared.

This is very interesting:

http://www.polishsite.us/index.php/history-and-people/modern-history/3 95-solving-the-myth-polish-cavalry-charge-against-german-tanks.html

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂	May 24, 10, 22:45 #28
bookratt: I was told it was a rumor that originated as propaganda, designed by Poles to encourage Polish Americans to enlist in the US Army during World War II. Ha! I knew it!!!

Ozi DanThreads: 22 Posts: 552 Joined: Nov 22, 07 ♂	May 25, 10, 02:08 #29
There were some interesting discussions on Polish cavalry in WW2 in this thread: http://www.polishforums.com/history-poland-34/polish-military-in-pictu res-38822/

hague1cmaeronThreads: 21 Posts: 1,652 Joined: Mar 30, 10 ♂	May 25, 10, 08:21 #30
ConstantineK: Well, I am not that young to quote books I had studied many years ago. But I perfectly remember that even by the time I left school, I left it in 1993, all textbooks had clearly I must say Costa, really do find that surprising:)

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