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A Polish - Jewish- American row over an Auschwitz barrack


posts: 22

pawianThreads: 90
Posts: 5,395
Joined: May 30, 08  Pictures: 2 ♂ 		 Feb 29, 12, 00:15    #1
Poland, U.S. Museum Tussle Over Barracks

(WARSAW, Poland) — Polish and U.S. officials are engaged in intense talks to determine the fate of a sensitive object: a barrack that once housed doomed prisoners at the Nazis' Auschwitz death camp and is now on display at the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum.
Poland is demanding the return of the artifact, which has been on loan to the Washington museum for more than 20 years and is an important object in its permanent exhibition. But the U.S. museum is resisting the demand, saying the valuable object shouldn't be moved partly because it is too fragile.

Read more: http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2107539,00.html#ixzz1nik eh4dc

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jasondmzkThreads: 31
Posts: 503
Joined: Jun 1, 11  Pictures: 3 ♂ 		 Feb 29, 12, 00:20    #2
If they (Poland) want it back, I guess we should give it to em. Who's supposed to pay for the transport, I wonder? Bill the Germans, I say.
delphiandomineThreads: 42
Posts: 9,954
Joined: Nov 25, 08 ♂ [Suspended] 		 Feb 29, 12, 00:28    #3
No harm in leaving it in the US - while Polish law is (as usual) being an utter ass, they're completely ignoring the purpose of keeping it over there.

If anything, it's a prominent reminder to the US about Poland.
pamThreads: 22
Posts: 463
Joined: Oct 11, 11  Gold Member MEMBER ♀ 		 Feb 29, 12, 00:30    #4
it should be returned .it is more a part of polands history. as long as it can be moved safely, it should be in poland.what is your opinion pawian?
ShortHairThugThreads: -
Posts: 1,375
Joined: May 1, 09 ♂ 		 Feb 29, 12, 00:34    #5
delphiandomine:
while Polish law is (as usual) being an utter ass,

You do know what "on loan" means? How typical of Yanks.
Grzegorz_Threads: 81
Posts: 6,213
Joined: Nov 16, 06 ♂ 		 Feb 29, 12, 00:40    #6
It's simply pathetic that such things happen but Polish state should not be involved in this comedy. The museum should simply sue them.
delphiandomineThreads: 42
Posts: 9,954
Joined: Nov 25, 08 ♂ [Suspended] 		 Feb 29, 12, 00:42    #7
ShortHairThug:
You do know what "on loan" means? How typical of Yanks.


I'd say that it's far more useful in the USA than it is in Poland, especially given the "disneyification" of Auschwitz.
GregrogThreads: 3
Posts: 114
Joined: Feb 2, 09 ♂ 		 Feb 29, 12, 00:42    #8
10 years loan is 10 years loan. No more no less. I find it rather funny and sad at the same time.
jasondmzkThreads: 31
Posts: 503
Joined: Jun 1, 11  Pictures: 3 ♂ 		 Feb 29, 12, 00:48    #9
delph, it doesn't really matter, nor is it for us to say, where it's more useful at. They loaned it to us, and we should give it back, if that's what they want. Especially if we want any artifacts to be loaned to us in the future.
pawianThreads: 90
Posts: 5,395
Joined: May 30, 08  Pictures: 2 ♂ 		Edited by: pawian  Feb 29, 12, 00:53    #10
pam:
.what is your opinion pawian?



Good question.


I agree with this opinion:

delphiandomine:
No harm in leaving it in the US -



Auschwitz has a few barracks like that. Leaving one in the US isn`t a significant breach in the collection.

In return, American museum could sponsor the maintanance/ renovation of Auschwitz exhibits. Or share some of its own exhibits.

I can imagine a situation that Russia lends the Polish Museum of Katyn some exhibits for 20 years and then we have to return them. I suppose many Poles would be against.

Yes, I know, I am so generous by nature, but I can`t help it. Sorry. :):):)
gumishuThreads: 17
Posts: 3,943
Joined: Apr 6, 09  Pictures: 1 ♂ 		 Feb 29, 12, 00:53    #11
I don't see a reason why the thing can't stay in the US - why just not let them have it (just sell it to them for some symbolic sum if it is required by the law so some VAT can be calculated - actually there is no VAT in export sales, no? )
delphiandomineThreads: 42
Posts: 9,954
Joined: Nov 25, 08 ♂ [Suspended] 		 Feb 29, 12, 01:15    #12
jasondmzk:
delph, it doesn't really matter, nor is it for us to say, where it's more useful at. They loaned it to us, and we should give it back, if that's what they want. Especially if we want any artifacts to be loaned to us in the future.


Of course, that assumes that it was Poland's to loan in the first place. Given that they put so much emphasis on the fact that IT WASN'T POLISH, it seems rather curious to get so worked up over this. It's more than likely (as the article says) related to the director being threatened with punishment, though.

pawian:
In return, American museum could sponsor the maintanance/ renovation of Auschwitz exhibits.


Would make perfect sense, actually. Auschwitz needs cash.

gumishu:
actually there is no VAT in export sales, no?


Yep, no VAT at all.

Although - it's probably the case that it can't be legally sold.
IronsideThreads: 59
Posts: 6,786
Joined: Feb 26, 09 ♂ 		 Feb 29, 12, 01:24    #13
loan is loan why Poland wont stop paying her debts then if that debatable ?

Poland is building Museum of Jews in Poland with taxpayers monies shouldn't those barrack go there?
Maybe it has to do something with Barrack Obama ?:D
pamThreads: 22
Posts: 463
Joined: Oct 11, 11  Gold Member MEMBER ♀ 		 Feb 29, 12, 01:30    #14
pawian:
Auschwitz has a few barracks like that. Leaving one in the US isn`t a significant breach in the collection

i know it has, i have been to auschwitz.. still think if it is transportable, it belongs in poland.
f stopThreads: 33
Posts: 2,861
Joined: Dec 9, 09  Pictures: 1 ♀ 		 Feb 29, 12, 01:47    #15
We have a bunch of others. Why get into a pissing much about this one, after all these years. Jeez, some people don't have enough to do.
jasondmzkThreads: 31
Posts: 503
Joined: Jun 1, 11  Pictures: 3 ♂ 		 Feb 29, 12, 01:50    #16
This is how I lost so many cd's when I was younger. You let somebody borrow one, and years later...
pamThreads: 22
Posts: 463
Joined: Oct 11, 11  Gold Member MEMBER ♀ 		 Feb 29, 12, 02:22    #17
f stop:
Why get into a pissing much about this one, after all these years. Jeez, some people don't have enough to do.

because it is important. it should never be forgotten.it should be in poland.simple. have personal reasons for my opinions.
f stopThreads: 33
Posts: 2,861
Joined: Dec 9, 09  Pictures: 1 ♀ 		 Feb 29, 12, 04:26    #18
pam:
because it is important. it should never be forgotten.it should be in poland.simple.

you got too many of these monuments in Poland already. Spread them around the world a little, if it's that important. Or take some pictures and keep them on your walls.
Enough with war mementos, the bullet ridden walls everywhere you look, evidence of stupidity of men, keeping what divides us alive. One barrack is more than enough for me.
BBmanThreads: -
Posts: 459
Joined: Jan 4, 11 ♂ 		Edited by: BBman  Feb 29, 12, 04:57    #19
gumishu:
I don't see a reason why the thing can't stay in the US - why just not let them have it (just sell it to them for some symbolic sum if it is required by the law so some VAT can be calculated - actually there is no VAT in export sales, no? )


f stop:
We have a bunch of others. Why get into a pissing much about this one, after all these years. Jeez, some people don't have enough to do.


from the article

The issue has arisen because of a Polish law aimed at safeguarding a cultural heritage ravaged by past wars, particularly World War II. Under the law, passed in 2003, any historic object on loan abroad must return to Poland every five years for inspection.

The fate of Cywinski, the Auschwitz museum director, is at stake in the matter. Under the law on protecting historic artifacts, he could be jailed for up to two years if he fails to obtain the return of any object on loan.
ZIMMYThreads: 10
Posts: 2,353
Joined: Feb 21, 09 ♂ 		 Feb 29, 12, 06:22    #20
From the link: ""Due to the barrack's size and the complexity of its installation, removing and transporting it to Poland presents special difficulties, including potentially damaging the artifact," the U.S. Holocaust museum said in a statement to The Associated Press."

Just curious; why is it more difficult to move it back to Poland then it was to move it to the U.S. in the first place? Did 20 years age it?
jasondmzkThreads: 31
Posts: 503
Joined: Jun 1, 11  Pictures: 3 ♂ 		 Feb 29, 12, 06:49    #21
ZIMMY:
Just curious; why is it more difficult to move it back to Poland then it was to move it to the U.S. in the first place

Good question. I was wondering the same thing.
Foreigner4Threads: 22
Posts: 1,988
Joined: Nov 18, 07 ♂ 		 Feb 29, 12, 07:25    #22
ZIMMY:
Just curious; why is it more difficult to move it back to Poland then it was to move it to the U.S. in the first place? Did 20 years age it?

good question.

A loan is a loan, there's nothing to debate here people.


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