Polish Jews in Hitler's Germany

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Feb 21, 12, 15:58 #1

New Thread because of different topic
From Poland and Britain started WW2

Harry:

DougTales: BTW, did you know that many Polish Jews preferred to live in Hitler's Germany than in Rydz-Śmigły's Poland.

Er, you do know that in 1938 Germany actually expelled the Polish Jews which lived in Germany, don't you?

Actually, they were not expelled.
The Polish government wanted to get rid of them and made a law which stated that they have to come to Poland to get a stamp in the passport, else they would lose their Polish citizenship. So Germany transported them to the Polish-German border so that they can get their stamp.

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Feb 21, 12, 16:06 #2

DougTales:

Actually, they were not expelled.

Really? The German government disagree with you.
From www.bundesarchiv.de/gedenkbuch/zwangsausweisung.html.en

The Expulsion of Polish Jews from the German Reich 1938/1939 and their records

The forceful expulsion of Jews from the German Reich at the end of October 1938 is mentioned in literature in context with the pogrom against the Jews on 9 and 10 November 1938, the “Reichskristallnacht”.
...
When the promulgation became known in Berlin via the German Embassy in Warsaw, shortly afterwards thousands of Polish Jews in the German Reich received an expulsion order in effect as of 27 October 1938 or they were arrested or expelled on foot or in mass transports across the German-Polish border in great haste.

Since the order for the forceful expulsion of Polish Jews did not reach all parts of the Reich at the same time, the deporting date varied depending on place of residence between 27, 28 and 29 October 1938. In addition, the promulgation allowed local authorities a certain scope of interpretation so that not only the very way of execution across the Reich was different but also the decision on who might have to face expulsion.

I wonder who we should trust on this: you or the German government?

DougTales:

The Polish government wanted to get rid of them and made a law which stated that they have to come to Poland to get a stamp in the passport, else they would lose their Polish citizenship.

Actually the law said that all Poles had to visit the nearest Polish embassy and have their passport stamped there.

DougTales:

So Germany transported them to the Polish-German border so that they can get their stamp.

Sure, just like they transported the Jews from the Warsaw ghetto east 'to work' and all of those Jews mysteriously vanished into thin air, right?

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Feb 21, 12, 16:26 #3

What is the point of allowing such threads to exist and thrive on Polishforums. There is no thruth here to establish, as it was done long time ago. Some of his comments could be not treated as simply controversial but downright criminal.
I don't get why some posts end in bin when posters use silly name caliing or dare to write marihuana (as in thread of my other beloved poster Mike) and this bull is allowed to stay on board of Polishforums. Greate job Mods! Bravo!

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Feb 21, 12, 16:39 #4

Alligator:

What is the point of allowing such threads to exist and thrive on Polishforums.

Well, it is very much related to Poland and Polish people (Polish Jews, to be exact).

Alligator:

There is no thruth here to establish, as it was done long time ago.

Actually, revision of history is very common. Often this is done by leaving out small but somewhat crucial points. For example, just compare the Polish and the German Wikipedia about Polenaktion: the German wikipedia article covers the Polish law of March 1938 regarding Poles who lived outside Poland being stripped of their rights as Polish citizens; the Polish wikipedia article, however, makes no mention at all of that law. And the German article links to a piece in Time magazine from 1938 which states "It all began with a Polish decree that non-registered Polish exiles would lose their Polish citizenship, must remain in their adopted countries. Not to be caught napping, the Nazis shipped 7000 Polish Jews back to Poland." (link) but the Polish article makes no mention of any Polish decrees.

The way to deal with revisions is to take them on and point out the bits which they leave out and the bits which they lie about. That is what I've done above to the original poster.

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Feb 21, 12, 16:49 #5

Harry:

Well, it is very much related to Poland and Polish people (Polish Jews, to be exact).

But it is simply a LIE written with CAPITAL LETTERS!!!!
I don't get what is your point here. First you rightly point that he is lying and in next post you write that revision in history is common. Is that the case here? I that the case with beginning of WWII? Is that also the case with Holocaust?
Get your head straight!
Sometimes it might be funny to just oppose some posters even if you know they are right. This is not the time.
Mods please kick out this troll (Doug) from Polishforums.
Posting such BS on Polishforums of all the place!

HarryThreads: 62 Posts: 8,508 Joined: May 2, 07 ♂ [Suspended]	Feb 21, 12, 16:58 #6
Alligator: First you rightly point that he is lying and in next post you write that revision in history is common. Is that the case here? Yes, he is falsifying history. He is doing that both by leaving details out and plain old lying about other details. Alligator: Mods please kick out this troll (Doug) from Polishforums. No, leave him here so we can deal with his lies.

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Feb 21, 12, 18:44 #7

Harry:

DougTales: Actually, they were not expelled.

Really? The German government disagree with you.
From www.bundesarchiv.de/gedenkbuch/zwangsausweisung.html.en
[...]
I wonder who we should trust on this: you or the German government?

Let me state it more precisely: They were not expelled in the way that they could not come back. They just would need to reapply for a visa after securing their Polish citizenship.

And the German government is not a neutral source. They are forced to promote the Allied version of history. They probably believe it themselves, though.

Harry:

DougTales: The Polish government wanted to get rid of them and made a law which stated that they have to come to Poland to get a stamp in the passport, else they would lose their Polish citizenship.

Actually the law said that all Poles had to visit the nearest Polish embassy and have their passport stamped there.

Nope, the law stated that they have to come to Poland.
Else such a law wouldn't make sense, wouldn't it? They need to got to a consulate anyway once their passport expires normally, so such a law would be superfluous if it stated that a consulate or embassy can make that stamp.

Harry:

DougTales: So Germany transported them to the Polish-German border so that they can get their stamp.

Sure, just like they transported the Jews from the Warsaw ghetto east 'to work' and all of those Jews mysteriously vanished into thin air, right?

Entirely different topic. Do you want to start a new thread?

DougTalesThreads: 3 Posts: 36 Joined: Feb 21, 12 ♂	Edited by: DougTales Feb 21, 12, 18:56 #8
Alligator: http://www.polishforums.com/history-poland-34/polish-jews-hitlers-ger many-57490/#msg1238444 So you claim to know. However, I see only a Pavlovian knee-jerk reaction from you instead of addressing the actual points.

DougTalesThreads: 3 Posts: 36 Joined: Feb 21, 12 ♂	Feb 21, 12, 19:27 #9
Harry: No, leave him here so we can deal with his lies. If there are errors (lies would be deliberate) please do point them out.

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Edited by: Harry Feb 21, 12, 19:39 #10

DougTales:

Let me state it more precisely: They were not expelled in the way that they could not come back. They just would need to reapply for a visa after securing their Polish citizenship.

And those would have been granted, would they? Source please.

DougTales:

And the German government is not a neutral source. They are forced to promote the Allied version of history.

Yes, the German government can certainly be relied upon to lie about what it did in 1938.

DougTales:

Nope, the law stated that they have to come to Poland.

Again, source please.

DougTales:

Else such a law wouldn't make sense, wouldn't it? They need to got to a consulate anyway once their passport expires normally, so such a law would be superfluous if it stated that a consulate or embassy can make that stamp.

Speculate as much as you want, without sources you are just pontificating

And while you are looking for sources, perhaps you'd like to tell us about the order issued by Heydrich of 26 October which ordered the arrest and deportation to Poland of Polish Jews? Here's a source to start you off with: http://books.google.ie/books?id=eonqpYqL3BsC&pg=PA78

AlligatorThreads: - Posts: 350 Joined: Dec 15, 10 ♂	Feb 21, 12, 19:40 #11
The are tons of books where you could easily find what LIES you are spouting here. Instead you read some BS written by wacko and criminal. I am not going to educate you, because that should have been done long time ago by your teachers and parents. Mum and Dad didn't told you that lying is bad?

archiwumThreads: 11 Posts: 30 Joined: Dec 1, 11 ♂	Feb 21, 12, 19:51 #12
If you fought on the frontlines during the first world war you were pardoned.

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Feb 21, 12, 20:30 #13

Harry:

DougTales: Let me state it more precisely: They were not expelled in the way that they could not come back. They just would need to reapply for a visa after securing their Polish citizenship.

And those would have been granted, would they? Source please.

The very link you provided:
"Only at the end of January 1939 did Germany and Poland reach an agreement allowing the return of the expelled Poles (Polish Jews) to Germany to regulate their affairs, and both sides agreed to desist from the practice of expelling each other's nationals and to reconsider the cases of those already expelled."

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Feb 21, 12, 20:41 #14

DougTales:

The very link you provided:
"Only at the end of January 1939 did Germany and Poland reach an agreement allowing the return of the expelled Poles (Polish Jews) to Germany to regulate their affairs, and both sides agreed to desist from the practice of expelling each other's nationals and to reconsider the cases of those already expelled."

Which precisely supports what I said: in 1938 the Polish Jews living in Germany were expelled. An agreement allowing their return may have been reached in 1939, but in 1938 they were expelled (and at the time there was no way for them to come back, as is shown by there needing to first be an agreement reached allowing them to come back).

Ozi DanThreads: 22 Posts: 552 Joined: Nov 22, 07 ♂	Feb 22, 12, 00:24 #15
DougTales: If there are errors (lies would be deliberate) please do point them out There is no need, as what you have said in this, and your other distasteful thread, is merely petitio principii, though you've masked it quite well and done an artful job.

jasondmzkThreads: 31 Posts: 503 Joined: Jun 1, 11 ♂	Feb 22, 12, 01:21 #16
Ozi Dan: masked it quite well and done an artful job. You're too kind. This whole thing makes me need a shower.

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