Polish martyrology during WW2 - today`s monuments

POLAND . The Unofficial Guide

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Edited by: pawian Oct 14, 10, 20:47 #1

6 million Polish citizens were killed during WW2. Only 600.000 died in action - as soldiers or fighters. All the rest were victims of German/Soviet planned, systematic extermination of the Polish/Jewish nation.
I am going to present only my own pictures, but if you want to add the ones found on the Net, feel free.

Let`s start with my hometown, Krakow:

40 men were executed by Germans in 1944.

The inscription on the band: To those who didn`t fail Poland.

A monument to the fallen AK underground soldiers who were scouts in the diversion platoon Alicja.

At this site, which was the outskirts of Krakow during WW2, a few hundred Poles were executed by Germans.

On 28 07 1943 Germans executed 24 people in the outskirts of Krakow.

TorqThreads: 65 Posts: 4,024 Joined: Apr 10, 09 MEMBER ♂	Edited by: Torq Oct 14, 10, 20:56 #2
This thread is going to be so depressing... especially when people from places like Iłowo, or other camps, where children were systematically murdered, start posting their pictures. However, I understand that it is necessary to keep the memory of German bestiality to remind Europe and the World that we have forgiven, but not forgotten. Good man, Pawian.

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Edited by: SeanBM Oct 14, 10, 21:12 #3

This thread is a monument in it's own right.

It's a very Polish thread in my opinion, it doesn't seek to discuss or talk about events or what happened but to see photos of monuments of events that happened.

I have never taken a picture of such a monument, it wouldn't cross my mind to record it, as it is a recording in its own right.
I suppose what I am trying to say, this thread is already interesting because it shows a little of how Polish people think or what I would call the Polish psychic.

Another great thread Pawian.

Marek11111Threads: 49 Posts: 1,954 Joined: Aug 6, 09 ♂	Oct 14, 10, 21:13 #4
Before ww2 there ware around 32 million Polish living after in 1945 or 1046 census there were around 25 million Polish living so can someone explain the myth about 6 million of Polish dying in ww2

SeanBMThreads: 41 Posts: 8,727 Joined: Mar 10, 08 ♂	Oct 14, 10, 21:15 #5
Marek11111: Before ww2 there ware around 32 million Polish living after in 1945 or 1046 census there were around 25 million Polish living so can someone explain the myth about 6 million of Polish dying in ww2 32-25 = 7

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Edited by: Moderator Oct 14, 10, 21:16 #6

Marek11111:

Before ww2 there ware around 32 million Polish living after in 1945 or 1046 census there were around 25 million Polish living

35 million in 1939, 23 million in 1945. Get your numbers right.

http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/II_Rzeczpospolita

http://www.rodzinapolska.pl/aktualnosci/archiwum/i2001/iiwojna_swiat.h tm

Marek11111:

can someone explain the myth about 6 million of Polish dying in ww2

6 million were murdered (3 million Jews and 3 million native Poles) and 6 million ran away
(that's why today we have Polonians all over the World.) What "myth" are you talking about?

Please give links in English.This is the language of the forum.

pawianThreads: 90 Posts: 5,395 Joined: May 30, 08 ♂	Edited by: pawian Oct 14, 10, 21:21 #7
Niepołomice Forest near Krakow- Germans executed about 1000 people here, including Klimecki - the mayor of Krakow.

Dougpol3Threads: 1 Posts: 42 Joined: Sep 1, 10 ♂	Oct 14, 10, 21:31 #8
Another "How we suffered" thread. Sick of it. Time for some to grow some balls. And move on.

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Edited by: pawian Oct 14, 10, 21:32 #9

Many buildings in Krakow display similar plaques.

In this building, in years 1941-1945, Polish women were imprisoned, tortured and executed by Nazi murderers.

Today it is Old Age Home.

A local church displays names of Poles who had lived in the area and died as underground or regular soldiers during WW2.

The village of Liszki near Krakow hosts such a monument at the local cemetery: on 4 July 1943, German occupants executed 32 people from the village suspected of supporting partisans.
The inscription imitates that of Spartans fallen at Thermopile:

Go tell the motherland, passer-by,
That here, obedient to her laws, we lie.

Dougpol3:

Sick of it. Time for some to grow some balls. And move on.

Get out of here, then, and never come back if you are so sick and your balls have grown big enough.

OK???

pgtxThreads: 49 Posts: 6,327 Joined: Feb 14, 09 MEMBER ♀	Oct 14, 10, 21:46 #10
pawian: Today it is Old Age Home. it's DPS im. Helclow...

BarneyThreads: 16 Posts: 1,630 Joined: May 26, 08 ♂	Oct 14, 10, 22:00 #11
Dougpol3: Time for some to grow some balls There he sat, preparing himself for battle, what he was about to do was not easy, but he was clear, his mind made up and without fear, and with a steady hand, he pressed post message.

pawianThreads: 90 Posts: 5,395 Joined: May 30, 08 ♂	Oct 14, 10, 22:01 #12
pgtx: it's DPS im. Helclow... Yes.

Marek11111Threads: 49 Posts: 1,954 Joined: Aug 6, 09 ♂	Oct 15, 10, 00:56 #13
Torq 6 million were murdered (3 million Jews and 3 million native Poles) and 6 million ran away (that's why today we have Polonians all over the World.) What "myth" are you talking about? This is what I am talking about where is 6 million of people they did not run away to west, did they run away to Siberia ? Is this figure or 6 million of polish people that died during ww2 come from?

MEMBER ♂

Oct 15, 10, 09:22 #14

Marek11111:

This is what I am talking about where is 6 million of people they did not run away to west

They're all over the world (USA, Western Europe, Brazil, Argentina, Australia - everywhere.)
Many stayed in Lithuania, Belarus and Ukraine after the war (Lithuania has 300 thousand
Poles, Belarus and Ukraine about 1.5 million (thouse who stayed there after the border
shift.)

There are over 21 million people of Polish origin all over the world. Many of them are those
who ran away during WW2 (and their desceendants.)

Marek11111:

Is this figure or 6 million of polish people that died during ww2 come from?

I wrote it already in my post. 6 million Polish people died (3 million Polish Jews and 3 million
native Poles) and 6 million ran away or stayed within Soviet Union's borders after 1945.
That's why Poland had 35 million people in 1939 and 23 million in 1945.

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Oct 15, 10, 09:33 #15

Dougpol3:

Another "How we suffered" thread.

Sick of it. Time for some to grow some balls. And move on.

Do you think that when we have rememberence day in the UK or we have our silence on 11/11 at the 11th hour? Oh and if you think the people of Coventry have forgiven the Germans you can think again! So at least we have comments like this on this thread, which shows that Poles do in fact possess balls as well as a forgiving nature.

Torq:

I understand that it is necessary to keep the memory of German bestiality to
remind Europe and the World that we have forgiven, but not forgotten.

Great thread Pawian, as usual the photos are excellent.

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Oct 15, 10, 19:23 #16

Torq you are just repeating the numbers or a lie by soviets, we do not know how many polish citizens died during war and after all we know it that no one knows and there was never any official investigation of it. The emigration of Polish took place through out of centuries not just before during and after ww2. The fact is that Poland lost 12 million of people during ww2 not 6 million as you stated.

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Oct 15, 10, 19:35 #17

Amathyst:

The Poles might have a forgiving nature - but as the father of one said Pole I prefer for her to live in the present - such as in safe air in discotheque, rather than her going on a school coach tour of almost every Nazi concentration camp - she's not stupoid and knows about the past.

But it's the past - the present and the future matter at least equally - but are more difficult to arrange than some monuments about the past or thousands of Katyn 70 years on billboards.

As before, sick of Polish self-pity. Plenty of my Polish pals agree with the point - including my best pal Mrs Dougpol, whose grandfather was terminated in Auschwitz like so many.

I'm all for memorials, but if as much were spent on ruined buildings as on memorials or churches, then we would all be the richer. Just a thought.

I'm a tax payer Pawian so shall continue to offer an opinion - but thanks for your concern.

Marek11111Threads: 49 Posts: 1,954 Joined: Aug 6, 09 ♂	Oct 15, 10, 19:52 #18
if as much were spent on ruined buildings as on memorials or churches, then we would all be the richer. Just a thought How you going to pass collection plate in rebuild building ? it’s easier in church and memorial, more churches more plates

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Edited by: Amathyst Oct 15, 10, 22:35 #19

Dougpol3:

such as in safe air in discotheque

You think these places are safe PMSL! Rather a child educate themselves and gain knowledge IMO, Its not about perpetuating hate, its about education...Dont get me wrong I know where you are coming from and Ive had "heated" debates with a friend of mine (who is Polish) about certain things related to WWII, but this thread wasn't about self pitty, it was about Polands history and events that shaped a nation - just appreciate it for what it is...Its a decent poster, adding something to the forum, which is a rare thing these days....

Dougpol3Threads: 1 Posts: 42 Joined: Sep 1, 10 ♂	Oct 15, 10, 23:48 #20
Fair enough mate - I mistook the whole thing for more Kaczynski style "patriotism"

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Oct 16, 10, 00:07 #21

Torq:

However, I understand that it is necessary to keep the memory of German bestiality to
remind Europe and the World that we have forgiven, but not forgotten. Good man, Pawian.

It would seem to make sense, this many generations gone, to focus on the brutality of people in general. 99.9% of living Germans had nothing to do with it, I don't see how that's still relevant. Even with all of these reminders of brutality, it is important to remember that Poland has long since forgot and is even today taking part in a war as an aggressor which has killed over 100,000 innocent civilians who were much like the people that these monuments remember. I wonder what those future monuments in Iraq will say? This wedding reception was bombed on October 13th, 42 innocent men, women, and children were murdered by bombs dropped by US, Polish, and allied troops.

Considering what it happening right now, it seems a bit hypocritical to say things like that.

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Edited by: Dougpol3 Oct 16, 10, 00:17 #22

Barney:

There he sat,
preparing himself for battle,
what he was about to do was not easy,
but he was clear,
his mind made up
and without fear,
and with a steady hand,
he pressed post message.

Bollox

The people in the past had plenty of balls - and alot of what this generation doesn't - and that is class. They would not admire this type of self serving sadness.

My father in law for example is a true gent. He lost his murdered father, barely escaped with his 14 year old life across the fields with his best pair of 14 year old shoes when tipped off by the Post Office boy who read the telegram by chance, that the Gestapo were coming for him that very hour, like his fatherr before him, dragged by his hysterical mother over 200 kilometres of Nazi infested mud to relatives in Kielce ,from Dabrowa Gornicza, not eating for 6 whole days, permanently damaging his bleeding feet, and living out the rest of the war in hiding, and hated and despised by those distant relatives who were bound by God to "care" for him.

Does he ever bang on about it? No - because the man has some pride - and class. Which others could take but a slice off.

PS Good points Convex - I love Poland an ill not return to Blighty but lets not hav too much of this "Poland th victim" and never in the wrong, just to remind others of "tiny little" betrayals Poland has been guilty of in the past - such as invading Czechoslowakia - but that's all right - because "our communit leaders did it - not us"

Some connection there, with a country not too far away to the west.......

IronsideThreads: 59 Posts: 6,786 Joined: Feb 26, 09 ♂	Oct 16, 10, 01:07 #23
Dougpol3: Bollox Good summary of your contribution in the thread! You seems to me a very confused person as to why and what !

Dougpol3Threads: 1 Posts: 42 Joined: Sep 1, 10 ♂	Oct 16, 10, 09:01 #24
Ironside: You seems to me a very confused person as to why and what Why? :)) Just pointing out that some Poles love to live in the past - instead of pushing for real change.

BarneyThreads: 16 Posts: 1,630 Joined: May 26, 08 ♂	Oct 16, 10, 09:26 #25
Dougpol3: Bollox So you posted without thinking. Fair enough, as you said Dougpol3: I mistook the whole thing

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Oct 16, 10, 10:56 #26

Dougpol3:

PS Good points Convex - I love Poland an ill not return to Blighty but lets not hav too much of this "Poland th victim" and never in the wrong, just to remind others of "tiny little" betrayals Poland has been guilty of in the past - such as invading Czechoslowakia - but that's all right - because "our communit leaders did it - not us"

Poland struggles badly with this, even today. It's nearly impossible to find a Pole that will admit to some of the things that they did in Galicia towards the Ukrainians - and you will almost certainly never hear the Lwow progorm admitted.

IronsideThreads: 59 Posts: 6,786 Joined: Feb 26, 09 ♂	Edited by: Ironside Oct 16, 10, 23:07 #27
delphiandomine: Poland struggles badly with this, even today. what? Poland was too good for those bastasd ! Admitting? phew! Dougpol3: Just pointing out that some Poles love to live in the past not true Dougpol3: instead of pushing for real change. pushing for what ?

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Edited by: pawian Oct 16, 10, 23:15 #28

Dougpol3:

Why? :)) Just pointing out that some Poles love to live in the past - instead of pushing for real change.

So what? History is my passion, pastime and hobby. I read more history books than you have ever seen in a bookshop in your life. :):):):)

It seems that despite your Sick of it statements you like this thread. :):):):)

Let`s continue:

Polish Jews` martyrology sites near Krakow:

Tyniec Forest

The smaller plaque reads:
Dawid, Roman, Szaja Schonherz from Filipowice
Gecel Goldschmidt from Filipowice
The Grunbergs from Skawina
Let their souls live in eternity.

The bigger plaque reads: About 500 Jews from Krakow area are buried in these two graves, the victims of German genocide, murdered in summer 1942.

Only few names are known:

Let them be blessed

Izrael and Regina Abrahamer from Zielonki

Chaim and Estera Chune from Skawina

Mrs Fletscher with her daughter from Skawina

Feuer from Piekary

Samuel and Sara Kenner from Krakow

Zygmunt Kleinberg from Zielonki

Mrs Kleinroller with three children

Kneller

Neigewitz with his wife

Ester and Zygmunt Poranski from Krakow

Herman Spielman from Dziedzice

Julia Weinberger from Wielbornia

Zimmerspitz

Let their souls live in eternity

Restored ghetto wall in Krakow

Puszcza Niepołomicka near Krakow is a site of martyrology of Polish and Jewish people. I already presented the Polish one.....

The Jewish monument - 700 Jews were executed here in 1942, including 8 yo children. There are more sites like that in the forest.

Dougpol3Threads: 1 Posts: 42 Joined: Sep 1, 10 ♂	Oct 17, 10, 09:48 #29
pawian: It seems that despite your Sick of it statements you like this thread. :):):):) ))) Well, of course when walking and coming across such, I doff my hat and say a prayer.

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Oct 31, 10, 22:34 #30

Polish society suffered heavy human losses during WW2. Polish Jews perished almost totally, ethnic Poles were exterminated too. Nazi Germans planned to get rid of the Polish elites and any opposition to their rule, then transfer 20 million Poles to Siberia, so that Poland could be settled by German colonists. The plan allowed a few million Poles stay as cheap labour force.

But all educated people were destined for extermination.

The same fate was planned for Polish elites by Soviet Russians.

The memory of Polish WW2 Golgota is honoured by thousands of monuments and memorial places all over Poland.

Chojnice, a monument to fallen teachers.

Człuchów, a plaque on the church to honour Poles deported to Siberia by Stalin`s bolsheviks: To our compatriots murdered, or killed by famine and cold, whose ashes remained for ever in Siberian forests and to those who survived. From Siberian prisoners of Człuchów area. Let them rest in peace.

Szydłów - A monument to the fighters and victims of WW2

Busko Zdrój - at this place, on 11 July 1944, Home Army diversion group executed a bloody butcher, Gestapo officer, responsible for crimes on partisans and civilians in Busko region - that`s what the street plaque reads.

Żnin - to Polish officers born in Żnin area in central Poland, murdered by stalinist NKVD in Katyń and other places.

The board lists officers names and jobs: lawyer, teacher, physician, farmer, engineer, merchant. Out of 13 officers only 4 were professional.

Gdynia
A memorial to Poles deported to Siberia.

A memorial to Polish Resistance during WW2

To 12.000 Poles murdered by Nazi in the Kaszuby area in 1939 alone

To the soldiers of the underground movement killed in combat with Nazi occupants in Stróże on 10.03.1944. One of the KIA was a British/American? - Sheady Frederick.

The town of Skalbmierz to the north of Krakow was one of many Polish settlements which experienced the horror of pacification during WW2. It was raided by joint German-Ukrainian forces (about 900 men) on 5 August 1944 while the Eastern front was close. Germans wanted to punish the town for its too close ties with partisans. Actually, the whole region of Pińczów was partisan infested. It is the land known for tough people, in the rest of Poland they are called Penknives, almost as tough as Highlanders.

Local Polish partisans tried to defend the town but greatly outnumbered in men and weapons got dispersed and had to retreat. Afterwards hell was unleashed because German occupants and their Ukrainian scum renegade helpers started murdering the inhabitants.
The commander of the dispersed partisan unit was fatally wounded and taken prisoner. His name was Franciszek Pudo, in conspiracy known as Sokół (Hawk). A German officer tried to interrrogate the partisan but without result, though they tortured him. Eventually, Pudo tore off the bandage off his head and threw it into German officer`s face. The latter ordered Ukrainians to execute the partisan, and they stabbed him with bayonettes.

The extermination of the residents continued. When more partisans arrived to the site to defend it, the battle began. In the evening, two Soviet tanks, which broke through the nearby front line, helped Polish partisans to repel the enemy.

64 inhabitants of the town were murdered, about 25 partisans were killed, and 100 Germans and Ukrainians. You can see the whole event on the monument`s carvings, together with the list of executed people, including infants and kids.

The plaque with names of killed partisans on the wall of the nearby church

Here is the book which tells this story
Heroic defenders of Skalbmierz

Franciszek Pudo, the brave underground fighter, nickname: Hawk - Sokół.

Around Skalbmierz there are more massacre sites. Here, on 28 January, 1944, 20 Polishmen were executed by Germans.

The monument to AK partisans who tried to assassinate Nazi governor of Poland Hans Frank by planting a bomb under the railway bridge. In retaliation, Germans rounded up and executed about 32 inhabitants of a nearby village as well as 50 hostages from Krakow.

A monument to Polish inhabitants of Niepołomice who died in WW2.

Here, in 1942, Polish left wing underground unit and Jewish Combat Organisation carried out a bomb attack on a cafe, causing serious losses to German occupants.

Krakow - A monument to Boy and Girl Scouts fallen for Poland. We always visit it on 1st November.

Krakow- a monument to 80 Poles executed by Germans at the site in 1944.

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