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Do Polish people in general dislike Russia or Germany more???


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samsungkoreaThreads: 1
Posts: 2
Joined: Feb 8, 12 ♀ 		 Feb 8, 12, 04:10    #1
i know the general history of Poland which kinda made me feel terribly sorry for Poland.
from what i know, both Russia and Germany did kind of terrible things to Poland like Japan did to Korea.

I want to ask, if you Poles don't mind, in general, which state do you guys hate more? : Russia or Germany? and if you can write, why?


but i guess these days Most young people are find with your neighbors, i hope so.
alexmacThreads: 4
Posts: 60
Joined: Feb 5, 12 ♂ [Suspended] 		 Feb 8, 12, 04:58    #2
Russians and Germans have done bad things to poles in the past the same can be said about poles doing bad things to Russians and Germans in the past. No nation is perfect. We need to move on
pgtxThreads: 49
Posts: 6,327
Joined: Feb 14, 09  Gold Member MEMBER ♀ 		Edited by: pgtx  Feb 8, 12, 05:00    #3
alex, what bad things Poles ( yes, you actually write it with a capital letter) did to Russians and Germans?
jasondmzkThreads: 31
Posts: 503
Joined: Jun 1, 11  Pictures: 3 ♂ 		 Feb 8, 12, 05:24    #4
My wife never refers to "Germans" and "Russians" in the context of past enmity between those nations. She ALWAYS refers to "the Nazis", or "the Soviets". She doesn't lump an entire country in with the acts perpetrated by the worst. It's a sound policy, and I wish I were open-minded enough to follow her in it.
WulkanThreads: 1
Posts: 344
Joined: Dec 28, 07 ♂ 		 Feb 8, 12, 05:28    #5
alexmac:
No nation is perfect. We need to move on


yes we need to move on and unite with Russians cause they are slavic and Germans are not lol
Polonius3Threads: 1,005
Posts: 4,834
Joined: Apr 11, 08 ♂ 		 Feb 8, 12, 05:39    #6
A joke I heard a number of years ago. A Pole was asked if he had to shoot a German and a Russian, whom would he shoot first, The reply: 'Naturally the German!' *Why?' 'Bo najpierw obowi您ek, potem przyjemno嗆! (Because duty comes first, then pleasure!).
gumishuThreads: 17
Posts: 3,943
Joined: Apr 6, 09  Pictures: 1 ♂ 		 Feb 8, 12, 09:00    #7
pgtx:
alex, what bad things Poles ( yes, you actually write it with a capital letter) did to Russians and Germans?


he most probably means things in the distant past - like 17th century (in case of Ukraine it would be 18th century) - in the early 17th century the protototype of Lisowczycy laid waste to big swaths of western Russia killing all that moved in their way
alexmacThreads: 4
Posts: 60
Joined: Feb 5, 12 ♂ [Suspended] 		Edited by: alexmac  Feb 8, 12, 09:06    #8
Exactly gumishu. And yes Poland and Russia are Slavic brothers
AlligatorThreads: -
Posts: 350
Joined: Dec 15, 10 ♂ 		 Feb 8, 12, 10:23    #9
alexmac:
Exactly gumishu.

Because he coudn't figure what Poles done to Germans and Russians. However Lisowszczycy not only took part in partisan war with Russia at that time, but also defended Vienna against Turks. Looks like alexmac would now need to take fast course in polish history to find something else.
Moreover I think it is pretty difficult for anyone (and probably somebody on this forum would try to do that), to compare atrocities of XVII and XXc. The sheer scale of killing and inflicting pain was on different level in XXc. Moreover I wouldn't be so ready to compare history of distant centuries. Between XVII and XXc. happened many things, that changed peoples mindsets, mentality, whole cultures (e.g. Enlighment, education, freedom for everybody). Despite that people in XXc. commited so many crimes against each other. If we wan't to compare distant centuries why not compare todays Poland, Germany and Russia to XIII c. P., G. and R.; or why should we put such restrictions, lets compare to 100000 B.C. whatever was in place of Poland. Russia and Germany.
That being said I don't have any grieviances toward Germans and Russians unless they try to forge history, show it as being relativistic, to diminish their crimes or in the worse case to blame Poles for what happened to them during WWII (unfortunately there are some people like that).
delphiandomineThreads: 42
Posts: 9,954
Joined: Nov 25, 08 ♂ [Suspended] 		 Feb 8, 12, 10:38    #10
Alligator:
in the worse case to blame Poles for what happened to them during WWII


I do partially blame the Polish politicians for it - the people are blameless (except for electing such morons) - but part of the tragedy of WW2 lies with Poland's absolutely senseless aggression towards Lithuania/Czechoslovakia, Poland's marginalising of her minorities and the other things that went on.

The people can't be faulted (especially given that Pilsudski was more or less a dictator) - but the politicians certainly should get some of the blame.
AlligatorThreads: -
Posts: 350
Joined: Dec 15, 10 ♂ 		 Feb 8, 12, 10:44    #11
delphiandomine:
but part of the tragedy of WW2 lies with Poland's absolutely senseless aggression towards Lithuania/Czechoslovakia, Poland's marginalising of her minorities and the other things that went on.

and that was the reason why Germany and Russia attacked Poland. I am sure they were very concerned about Polish minorities. Spot on delphiandomine.
Alligator:
they try to forge history, show it as being relativistic, to diminish their crimes or in the worse case to blame Poles for what happened to them during WWII (unfortunately there are some people like that).
delphiandomineThreads: 42
Posts: 9,954
Joined: Nov 25, 08 ♂ [Suspended] 		 Feb 8, 12, 10:48    #12
Alligator:
and that was the reason why Germany and Russia attacked Poland. I am sure they were very concerned about Polish minorities. Spot on delphiandomine.


Who said anything about that being the reason?

I only put it forward as one reason why Poland was annihilated - Poland was, at a time of need, marginalising and excluding her minorities when they could have played a vital role in Poland's defence. Likewise - with the aggression towards Czechoslovakia and Lithuania - both countries that could have helped, especially Czechoslovakia.

To this day, it confuses me why so many people in Poland fell for Dmowski's idiotic views when Pilsudski quite clearly had the right idea.
AlligatorThreads: -
Posts: 350
Joined: Dec 15, 10 ♂ 		 Feb 8, 12, 11:00    #13
Eaxtly because of Pi連udski's ideas Poland couldn't count on Lithuanians. Get your facts straight.
As for the Zaolzie (I think that what you are saying), Czechoslavakia took it from Poland in 1920, when Poland was fighting with bolszevics. Stab on the back, I would call it. But that wasn't so crucial in relationship with Czechoslovakia at that time, as their frindly relationship with bolshevic Russia. It wasn't Poland who didn't want to form an alliance with Czechoslovakia, but Czechs who at first didn't want to make difficult their relations with CCCR. When they tried to form this alliance ti was too late.
delphiandomineThreads: 42
Posts: 9,954
Joined: Nov 25, 08 ♂ [Suspended] 		 Feb 8, 12, 11:20    #14
Alligator:
Eaxtly because of Pi連udski's ideas Poland couldn't count on Lithuanians. Get your facts straight.


Can you blame them? After the tricks of Pilsudski, they wanted nothing to do with Poland - it was certainly not his finest hour.

Alligator:
It wasn't Poland who didn't want to form an alliance with Czechoslovakia, but Czechs who at first didn't want to make difficult their relations with CCCR. When they tried to form this alliance ti was too late.


Both sides need a good slap for their actions at that time, to be honest.

I still find it utterly bewildering that they didn't consider Germany/Soviet Union enough of a threat to put squabbles aside and form a military alliance against them. With Romania and possibly Hungary, they would've had a formidable defence.
AlligatorThreads: -
Posts: 350
Joined: Dec 15, 10 ♂ 		 Feb 8, 12, 11:33    #15
delphiandomine:
Can you blame them? After the tricks of Pilsudski, they wanted nothing to do with Poland - it was certainly not his finest hour.

I am not the one who should hear that, but that guy
delphiandomine:
To this day, it confuses me why so many people in Poland fell for Dmowski's idiotic views when Pilsudski quite clearly had the right idea.

delphiandomine:
I still find it utterly bewildering that they didn't consider Germany/Soviet Union enough of a threat to put squabbles aside and form a military alliance against them. With Romania and possibly Hungary, they would've had a formidable defence.

Even if such alliance was formed it still wasn't enough to fight with Germany and CCCR. They purpose was war and they prepared for it for a long time. Poland, Czechoslovakia etc. wasn't militarly and politicaly prepared for that. The result would be more or less the same.
I think that we shouldn't consider what Poland, Czechoslovakia etc. didn't do, but what Germany and Russia did do.
kondziorThreads: 2
Posts: 441
Joined: Oct 16, 09 ♂ 		 Feb 8, 12, 11:49    #16
Germans, at the very least, have been honest enemies. When they invaded, they did not call it "Brotherly help". When they occupied, they did not demand to be called "friends"
alexmacThreads: 4
Posts: 60
Joined: Feb 5, 12 ♂ [Suspended] 		 Feb 8, 12, 11:55    #17
One example is the forced Polanisation of the non polish population in then polish occupied Ruthenia and Lithuania.Forcing non polish people to learn polish at school and converting orthodox Christian churches to catholic ones. I find it funny that a lot of 'polish' heros are actually from polanized Lithuanian, Belarusian/ Ukrainian ethnicity example Tadeusz Kosciusko and J霩ef Pi連udski.
AlligatorThreads: -
Posts: 350
Joined: Dec 15, 10 ♂ 		 Feb 8, 12, 12:01    #18
kondzior:
Germans, at the very least, have been honest enemies. When they invaded, they did not call it "Brotherly help". When they occupied, they did not demand to be called "friends"

Why would they call slaves friends? They had a clear cut objective: turn Slavs into slaves and afterwards exterminate.
Germans were so honest that they attacked Gliwice radiostation and blamed for it Poles. That was honest reason to start war.
delphiandomineThreads: 42
Posts: 9,954
Joined: Nov 25, 08 ♂ [Suspended] 		 Feb 8, 12, 12:02    #19
Alligator:
I think that we shouldn't consider what Poland, Czechoslovakia etc. didn't do, but what Germany and Russia did do.


Both are important when it comes to analysing what happened, though.

Alligator:
Even if such alliance was formed it still wasn't enough to fight with Germany and CCCR


Given that the USSR was very opportunistic at this point - would they really have intervened if they saw Germany taking a beating from some military alliance in this part of the world?

Alligator:
I am not the one who should hear that, but that guy


Pilsudski's actions in 1918-1922 were somewhat different from his later ideas.

And "alexmac" - get lost.
alexmacThreads: 4
Posts: 60
Joined: Feb 5, 12 ♂ [Suspended] 		 Feb 8, 12, 12:11    #20
Poland needs to stop serving the illuminati EU, UK and USA and come back to its true Slavic roots and embrace its Slavic brothers again.
JonnyMThreads: 16
Posts: 4,487
Joined: Mar 9, 11 ♂ 		 Feb 8, 12, 12:12    #21
alexmac:
Poand needs to stop serving the illuminati EU, UK and USA

By that one word: 'illuminati' you have shown yourself to be a paranoid fantasist.
alexmac:
come back to its true Slavic roots and embrace its Slavic brothers again.

The Soviet Union?
delphiandomineThreads: 42
Posts: 9,954
Joined: Nov 25, 08 ♂ [Suspended] 		 Feb 8, 12, 12:13    #22
alexmac:
Poland needs to stop serving the illuminati EU, UK and USA and come back to its true Slavic roots and embrace its Slavic brothers again.


There's just the little issue that "Slavic brothers" have been murdering each other for centuries and, generally speaking, it's best to avoid meeting them when other people aren't present.

What's it like being unemployed in Australia?
hythornThreads: 6
Posts: 843
Joined: Feb 21, 08 ♂ 		 Feb 8, 12, 12:31    #23
alexmac:
Poland needs to stop serving the illuminati EU, UK and USA and come back to its true Slavic roots and embrace its Slavic brothers again.


says the man living in Melbourne
your knowledge of Poland comes from where exactly?

By illuminati, do you mean the Catholic church with its claws and fangs or is it a more mysterious New World order type of thing where people have secret handshakes?

a lot depends on which dates you are referring to
during partition, the majority of Polish people who I have spoken to disliked the Russians much more
the Russkies never invested in infrastructure in Poland and robbed the country blind

Poland B results in part from this lack of investment

there is one incident where I forget the details, however a town in Russian partitioned Poland had a narrow gauge railway
and the Russians felt that this was not right that Poles should have this and their Russian masters did not have it
so they shipped it to a Russian city
AlligatorThreads: -
Posts: 350
Joined: Dec 15, 10 ♂ 		 Feb 8, 12, 12:34    #24
delphiandomine:
Pilsudski's actions in 1918-1922 were somewhat different from his later ideas.

Pi連udski had idea of federation of Poland, Lithuania and Ukraine. The idea was formed long before 1918-1920. By the way his actions in 1918-1920 were part of implementation of those ideas. Again, get your facts straight.
delphiandomine:
Given that the USSR was very opportunistic at this point - would they really have intervened if they saw Germany taking a beating from some military alliance in this part of the world?

I don't think that Germany would take beating from such alliance. It takes time and some military exercises to coordinate actions of different armies. They didn't have both. Moreover attacking side always have upperhand, so for some time alliance would take beating anyway. In that time CCCR would probably attack. Another thing - CCCR was an aggresive, totalitarian state. They wanted attack anyway. They would do that sooner or later.
alexmac:
One example is the forced Polanisation of the non polish population in then polish occupied Ruthenia and Lithuania.Forcing non polish people to learn polish at school and converting orthodox Christian churches to catholic ones. I find it funny that a lot of 'polish' heros are actually from polanized Lithuanian, Belarusian/ Ukrainian ethnicity example Tadeusz Kosciusko and J霩ef Pi連udski.

Poles didn't forced polonisation. Acceptance of polish culture and language was voluntary. Nobility of those countries saw political freedom of Polish nobility and atractive culture and naturaly wanted to be part of it. Because of most of nobility of Luithuania and Ruthenia became culturaly Polish e.g. Pi連udcy, Mi這szowie etc. The same happened later with Polish nobility accepting French culture and language in later centuries.
Also Polish people didn't convert orthodox Christian churches to catholic one. Orthodox church in Poland was for a long time subordinate of Moscow Patriarch. Tsars started to take advantage of it and used Orthodox Church as excuse to meddle in Polish internal affairs. Because of that part of Polish Orthodox bishops breaked subordination to Patriarch and formed Union Church (they still were orthodox but were subordinate of Pope in Rome).
delphiandomineThreads: 42
Posts: 9,954
Joined: Nov 25, 08 ♂ [Suspended] 		 Feb 8, 12, 12:35    #25
hythorn:
during partition, the majority of Polish people who I have spoken to disliked the Russians much more


It does seem to be the general opinion - when you look at how prosperous Galician cities were, as well as how developed the Prussian part was - it's obvious to see that the Russian part was neglected.
Fjodor1980Threads: -
Posts: 7
Joined: Feb 8, 12 ♂ 		 Feb 8, 12, 13:38    #26
He-he, after reading posts above, suppose it would be better to paraphrase the topic into: Whom are you afraid most - Russians or Germans? There is no need to answer it. But the whole historiy of relationship between Russia Germany, Poland shows that
1. Russia and Poland are much more closer than Poland and Germany (due to tradition relationship, economic basis)
2. Poland must have it's own way to move, do not glancing to Germany or to Russia.(Have your own point of view)
3. Before dislike someone try to dislike yourself :)
HarryThreads: 62
Posts: 8,508
Joined: May 2, 07 ♂ [Suspended] 		 Feb 8, 12, 13:42    #27
Alligator:
Poles didn't forced polonisation.

Historical facts very much show the exact opposite.

As for the question of whether Polish people in general dislike Russia or Germany more, one can make strong arguments either way but it's hard to argue against the fact that Polish people most of all dislike people who claim to be Polish but in fact are idiots who blacken the name of Poland with their idiocy.
AlligatorThreads: -
Posts: 350
Joined: Dec 15, 10 ♂ 		 Feb 8, 12, 13:48    #28
Harry:
Historical facts very much show the exact opposite.

Which one? Elaborate please.
alexmacThreads: 4
Posts: 60
Joined: Feb 5, 12 ♂ [Suspended] 		 Feb 8, 12, 13:49    #29
Haha you have no idea what I'm talking about when i say illuminati, oh well. I was wrong to assume that most of you were shepards not sheep. But I guess I was right you can't help it it's genetic.
delphiandomineThreads: 42
Posts: 9,954
Joined: Nov 25, 08 ♂ [Suspended] 		 Feb 8, 12, 13:49    #30
Alligator:
Which one? Elaborate please.


Surpressing the Ukrainian minority was one such example.

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