Polish president Mościcki and Hermann Göring hunting together in 1938

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Edited by: Nathan Nov 20, 10, 07:35 #1

Very interesting documentary about a hunting trips to Bialowieza forest by Polish president and Nazi Germany Commander-in-Chief of the Air Force during 1936-38. That same Air Force destroyed Polish aviation within two weeks just 1 year later. H. Göring looked very happy then. Did he know about the upcoming war? Did Moscicki offer to raise claims on Czechoslovakia land as soon as the Munich conference would touch the issue? Since the forest lies on the current border with Bielorus', was the ultimatum to Lithuanians made in 1938 discussed there too - way of cutting out the spheres of influence in the future of Eastern Europe? What do you think?

hague1cmaeronThreads: 21 Posts: 1,652 Joined: Mar 30, 10 ♂	Edited by: hague1cmaeron Nov 20, 10, 08:03 #2
Just diplomacy I guess. Here is Mosicki + Beck with Anthony Eden in Warsaw more clips of Mosicki

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Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Nov 20, 10, 08:32 #3

Most interesting if seen in the later "slavic subhuman" context what many now (thanks to after war history writing) see as the most driving force behind the Nazi actions which I started to doubt for awhile now.
You don't go hunting with a subhuman, not even diplomatically.

Göring wouldn't want to found dead with a Jew for example...

Another hint that the interwar Poland had a choice (between rock and a hart place admittedly) but still a choice...

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Edited by: Borrka Nov 20, 10, 12:39 #4

Bratwurst Boy:

Most interesting if seen in the later "slavic subhuman" context what many now (thanks to after war history writing) see as the most driving force behind the Nazi actions which I started to doubt for awhile now.

There are at least two subcategories in German (not Nazi only) attitude towards Slavs:
"good" Slavs having their national agenda fully in line with German chauvinistic objectives and
"bad" Slavs opposing it.
Just some examples:
Poles and Serbs were bad (even today they are) for well known reasons and Slovaks, Croats, Ukrainians were "good" or at least useful.
There was always some DNA-magic behind these stereotypes like "Ukrainian peasants are less spoiled with Jewish blood than Polish Mischlings" but it was a nice good nite story only for Helmut and Helga in SS, HJ and BDM uniforms.
Useful and useless are the keywords.

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Nov 20, 10, 12:41 #5

Nathan:

That same Air Force destroyed Polish aviation within two weeks just 1 year later.

it is a side issue I know - but Polish fighter force was not destroyed by Germans in these two weeks - it just could not operate anymore because of shattered logistic of the country - it's repair and support columns were caught up in ground fighting or could not reach possible new operation areas in the east of Poland for various others reasons - also those pre-war main bases of Polish air force, among them those in eastern Poland, were destroyed by German bombing - it is also noteworthy even in these 17 - 18 days of operation Polish fighter force claimed a considerable share of German air force - it is estimated that Luftwaffe lost well over 200 airplanes in combat over Poland and I guess some 100 of these were downed by Polish fighters (the rest was mostly air defense fire)

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂	Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Nov 20, 10, 12:43 #6
Borrka: There are at least two subcategories in German (not Nazi only) attitude towards Slavs: "good" Slavs having their national agenda fully in line with German chauvinistic objectives and "bad" Slavs opposing it. You really like this stuff, don't you... Borrka: Poles and Serbs were bad (even today they are) They are? ROFL

BorrkaThreads: 49 Posts: 770 Joined: Apr 25, 08 ♂	Nov 20, 10, 12:56 #7
Bratwurst Boy: You really like this stuff, don't you... Just visit any BdV Internet site, East-Prussian or like that and enjoy LOL.

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Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Nov 20, 10, 13:14 #8

Borrka:

Just visit any BdV Internet site, East-Prussian or like that and enjoy LOL.

You are mixing things up here...again...but then, who cares.
If it rocks your boat hating Germans (all 80 millions of us) for allegedly hating Poles (and all other Slavs btw. by default) be my guest! *yawn* It get's boring soon (for most of us that is)...

Borrka: "They hate us!"

Me: "No, they don't"

Borrka: "They hate all Slavs, especially Poles"

Me: "What? All 82 Millions of us?"

Borrka: " They always hated us..since ever!"

Me: "Really! And how about all this intermingling
and mixing and the generations of Poles living
in Germany and vice versa? What about all
the mutually enrichments?"

Borrka: " They hate us! I know it! Oh how I hate them!!!"

;)

PennBoyThreads: 157 Posts: 3,441 Joined: Dec 7, 08 ♂	Nov 20, 10, 15:28 #9
Nathan: Polish president Mościcki and Hermann Göring hunting together in 1938 Göring went hunting with Jozef Beck also

southernThreads: 116 Posts: 10,955 Joined: May 17, 07 ♂	Nov 20, 10, 15:30 #10
The point is who they were hunting.

PennBoyThreads: 157 Posts: 3,441 Joined: Dec 7, 08 ♂	Nov 20, 10, 16:00 #11
Bratwurst Boy: Borrka: "They hate us!" Me: "No, they don't" Borrka: "They hate all Slavs, especially Poles" Me: "What? All 82 Millions of us?" Borrka: " They always hated us..since ever!" Bratwurst Boy i know you'll never admit it but most Germans do hate Poles, and it's been proven with statistics few feel sympathy for us, Poles have a worse image in German society than Turks!!

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂	Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Nov 20, 10, 16:03 #12
PennBoy: Bratwurst Boy i know you'll never admit it but most Germans do hate Poles, If they would I would say it, believe me! I'm not a PC-kind of guy as you should know by now! Where should the hate come from in the first place? What did you do? Between "not feeling sympathy" and "hate" lie worlds, won't you agree? And it is nigh impossible than to have a worse image than Turks here...

PennBoyThreads: 157 Posts: 3,441 Joined: Dec 7, 08 ♂	Nov 20, 10, 16:09 #13
Bratwurst Boy: Where should the hate come from in the first place? What did you do? Between "not feeling sympathy" and "hate" lie worlds, won't you agree? And it is nigh impossible than to have a worse image than Turks here... HAHA that was funny with the Turks. Bad stereotypes and people believing them, that Poles are drunks, uneducated, thieves, stole "your" land, uncivilized Slavs.

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂	Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Nov 20, 10, 16:20 #14
PennBoy: Bad stereotypes and people believing them, that Poles are drunks, uneducated, thieves, stole "your" land, uncivilized Slavs. Again, where should the hate come from? Germans are seen by you as humourless, brutal, clinical robotics who opressed and destroyed your country and killed the half of your people.. do you hate me/the Germans?

PennBoyThreads: 157 Posts: 3,441 Joined: Dec 7, 08 ♂	Nov 20, 10, 16:24 #15
Bratwurst Boy: Again, where should the hate come from? Good question but somehow i felt it, or maybe i was just being a bit paranoid

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂	Nov 20, 10, 16:42 #16
PennBoy: Good question but somehow i felt it, or maybe i was just being a bit paranoid What...did you wear a placard "Kick me, I'm a Pole!" ? ;)

PennBoyThreads: 157 Posts: 3,441 Joined: Dec 7, 08 ♂	Nov 20, 10, 16:51 #17
Bratwurst Boy: What...did you wear a placard "Kick me, I'm a Pole!" ? ;) Nah nah not like that, i just felt it, not a friendly vibe

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂	Nov 20, 10, 17:02 #18
PennBoy: Nah nah not like that, i just felt it, not a friendly vibe Nothing personally though! ;)

PennBoyThreads: 157 Posts: 3,441 Joined: Dec 7, 08 ♂	Nov 20, 10, 17:06 #19
Bratwurst Boy: Nothing personally though! ;) I know many German Americans and they're all nice so i dunno

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂	Nov 20, 10, 17:31 #20
PennBoy: I know many German Americans and they're all nice so i dunno Why don't they hate Poles? ;)

PennBoyThreads: 157 Posts: 3,441 Joined: Dec 7, 08 ♂	Nov 20, 10, 17:45 #21
Bratwurst Boy: Why don't they hate Poles? ;) They forgave us ;)

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂	Nov 20, 10, 18:00 #22
It's the weather here, I tell ya! :)

PennBoyThreads: 157 Posts: 3,441 Joined: Dec 7, 08 ♂	Nov 20, 10, 18:15 #23
Bratwurst Boy: It's the weather here, I tell ya! :) Yea in Poland too little sun in the fall and winter, lack of Vitamin D i guess, people walk around looking depressed or mad

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂	Nov 20, 10, 18:24 #24
PennBoy: Yea in Poland too little sun in the fall and winter, lack of Vitamin D i guess, people walk around looking depressed or mad nods ...being grumpy and all that...

hague1cmaeronThreads: 21 Posts: 1,652 Joined: Mar 30, 10 ♂	Edited by: hague1cmaeron Nov 20, 10, 23:39 #25
PennBoy: Bratwurst Boy i know you'll never admit it but most Germans do hate Poles, and it's been proven with statistics few feel sympathy for us, Poles have a worse image in German society than Turks!! I think you are being hard on BB and the Germans. If you met Germans on a face to face basis I am certain you would change your mind! Poles are also prone to stereotyping you know.

PennBoyThreads: 157 Posts: 3,441 Joined: Dec 7, 08 ♂	Nov 21, 10, 02:53 #26
hague1cmaeron: I think you are being hard on BB He knows i'm only kidding

SokratesThreads: 19 Posts: 4,464 Joined: Jan 19, 09 ♂ [Suspended]	Nov 22, 10, 17:02 #27
Diplomacy at work, big deal. It might interest you Nathan that they were hunting wild Ukrainians :))))))

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Edited by: Nathan Nov 23, 10, 19:02 #28

Sokrates:

Diplomacy at work, big deal. It might interest you Nathan that they were hunting wild Ukrainians :))))))

Seems like you deeply suck in diplomacy, don't you? Maybe, Moscicki hunted his fantasies, but Göring was examining the places where his tanks will be a year later just a few weeks after the start of the war :) But there is nothing out of unusual - not only diplomacy that you seem to suck in ;)

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Edited by: wildrover Nov 23, 10, 19:06 #29

[quote=Nathan]but Göring was examining the places where his tanks will be a year later ....

Goring was the head of the German air force....Kliest and Guderian were the Panzer boys...

Incidentally...did you know that the reason there are racoons in Poland is due to Herman himself...?

Being a keen hunter her decided that raccons would be good to hunt , so had a pair imported from the USA... they bred , and the rest is history...

HarryThreads: 62 Posts: 8,508 Joined: May 2, 07 ♂ [Suspended]	Nov 23, 10, 19:59 #30
Nathan: Very interesting documentary about a hunting trips to Bialowieza forest by Polish president and Nazi Germany Commander-in-Chief of the Air Force during 1936-38. Was this before or after Poland and Germany had teamed up to invade Czechoslovakia?

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