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Are Polish territories natively German?


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KoalaThreads: 1
Posts: 433
Joined: May 4, 11 ♂ 		 May 11, 11, 23:16    #1
Bratwurst Boy in a thread about Polish minorities in Germany stubbornly claims that Poland is in fact natively German. Sice other people are sick of this discussion in that thread, I suggest we move it here. :)
SeanusThreads: 22
Posts: 30,158
Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂ 		 May 11, 11, 23:19    #2
There is no question that they had an influence but natively?? Nah, that's imperialistic dreaming.
guesswhoThreads: 23
Posts: 3,326
Joined: Mar 17, 10 ♀ 		Edited by: guesswho  May 11, 11, 23:25    #3
Koala:
Are Polish territories natively German?


Some parts of Poland use to be a part of Germany in the past.
Antek_StalichThreads: 6
Posts: 1,533
Joined: May 6, 11 ♂ 		Edited by: Antek_Stalich  May 11, 11, 23:26    #4
Does Bratwurst Boy mean whole Poland? ;-)

guesswho:
Some parts of Poland use to be German in the past.


Some parts of Ukraine, Belarus, Lithuania used to be Polish in the past and so what? Some parts of Poland were Czech in the past, then overtaken by German. So what? Some parts of Germany were Slavonic in the past and so what? I could say Ruegen IS natively Slavonic ;-)
Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11
Posts: 14,563
Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂ 		Edited by: Bratwurst Boy  May 11, 11, 23:26    #5
That's lame Koala...you should ask that question on a german board! :)

Antek_Stalich:


Does Bratwurst Boy mean whole Poland? ;-)


No, he does NOT!
Piast PolandThreads: 3
Posts: 272
Joined: Aug 28, 10 ♂ 		 May 11, 11, 23:27    #6
SOME parts had influences, Greater Poland and area around it including most likely Brandenburg were slavic in origin
Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11
Posts: 14,563
Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂ 		Edited by: Bratwurst Boy  May 11, 11, 23:28    #7
Piast Poland:
SOME parts had influences, Greater Poland and area around it including most likely Brandenburg were slavic in origin


No it was not!

How can it be slavic "in origin" if the Slavs had been the last people to wander into central Europe, AFTER the Celts and AFTER the Germanics??? *insert slapping on forhead smiley*
Piast PolandThreads: 3
Posts: 272
Joined: Aug 28, 10 ♂ 		Edited by: Piast Poland  May 11, 11, 23:29    #8
And why is that? Its already proven slavs are native to parts of todays Germany, like the Sorbs

and where did Germans wander from
Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11
Posts: 14,563
Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂ 		 May 11, 11, 23:30    #9
Piast Poland:
And why is that?


Why is what? That you came latest??? Not my fault...
Antek_StalichThreads: 6
Posts: 1,533
Joined: May 6, 11 ♂ 		Edited by: Antek_Stalich  May 11, 11, 23:30    #10
I have seen Slavonic excavations down there in Ruegen, done by German ;)
Piast PolandThreads: 3
Posts: 272
Joined: Aug 28, 10 ♂ 		 May 11, 11, 23:31    #11
Bratwurst Boy:
That you came latest


Link? And again, where did Germans themselves come from?
Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11
Posts: 14,563
Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂ 		 May 11, 11, 23:31    #12
Antek_Stalich:
I could say Ruegen IS natively Slavonic ;-)


No it's not...it was germanic before (Rugians) and again after the Slavs left.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R%C3%BCgen#History
SokratesThreads: 19
Posts: 4,464
Joined: Jan 19, 09 ♂ [Suspended] 		 May 11, 11, 23:33    #13
Bratwurst Boy:
How can it be slavic "in origin" if the Slavs had been the last people to wander into central Europe, AFTER the Celts and AFTER the Germanics??? *insert slapping on forhead smiley*

Because the only civilisation there was slavic one? Germans vacated the place, there's not a single germanic city preserved found in the area, how is that possible?

The title is incorrect however, the land is not natively Slavic but Slavs are the first people who created permanent lasting settlements and a fully developed civilisation in the region.
southernThreads: 116
Posts: 10,955
Joined: May 17, 07 ♂ 		 May 11, 11, 23:34    #14
Berlin was grounded by Slavs.It is Slavic name Barlin sth to do with mud.
Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11
Posts: 14,563
Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂ 		Edited by: Bratwurst Boy  May 11, 11, 23:34    #15
Piast Poland:
Link? And again, where did Germans themselves come from?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Germanic_tribes_(750BC-1AD).png

Sokrates:
Because the only civilisation there was slavic one? Germans vacated the place, there's not a single germanic city preserved found in the area, how is that possible?


Poles live in Ascaugalis....you live in Breslau...Poles live in Danzig...you live on german lands in german towns.

I understand if for some that is uncomfortable..*pats Soks head*

Sokrates:
The title is incorrect however, the land is not natively Slavic but Slavs are the first people who created permanent lasting settlements and a fully developed civilisation in the region.


Where had been all the slavic towns and villages at 200 A.D ???? I can't see any....only germanic ones!
Piast PolandThreads: 3
Posts: 272
Joined: Aug 28, 10 ♂ 		 May 11, 11, 23:41    #16
Bratwurst Boy:
Poles live in Danzig.


rightly so as we founded it and built it.
AmathystThreads: 30
Posts: 3,968
Joined: Nov 10, 06  Pictures: 2 ♀ 		Edited by: Moderator  May 11, 11, 23:52    #17
Koala:
Bratwurst Boy in a thread about Polish minorities in Germany stubbornly claims that Poland is in fact natively German.


Where did he do that?
Antek_StalichThreads: 6
Posts: 1,533
Joined: May 6, 11 ♂ 		 May 12, 11, 00:02    #18
Bratwurst Boy, isn't it right that the German had conquered the original ancient Prussians (a Baltic tribe) and even stole their name? ;-)
PennBoyThreads: 157
Posts: 3,441
Joined: Dec 7, 08  Pictures: 2 ♂ 		 May 12, 11, 00:07    #19
Koala:
Are Polish territories natively German?

Supposedly the western half is. Eastern Poland is where we come from eastern Poland and western Ukraine (just north of the Carpathians) is the homeland of Slavs. At least the West and East Slavs.
Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11
Posts: 14,563
Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂ 		 May 12, 11, 00:08    #20
Antek_Stalich:
Bratwurst Boy, isn't it right that the German had conquered the original ancient Prussians (a Baltic tribe) and even stole their name? ;-)


The mod slapped me and now I don't dare to answer anymore...

*takes helmet and leaves*
SokratesThreads: 19
Posts: 4,464
Joined: Jan 19, 09 ♂ [Suspended] 		 May 12, 11, 00:11    #21
Bratwurst Boy:
Poles live in Ascaugalis....you live in Breslau...Poles live in Danzig...you live on german lands in german towns.

Danzig was built by Poles, Wroc³aw? No argument there its a former german city.
Bratwurst Boy:
I understand if for some that is uncomfortable..*pats Soks head*

BB you're talking to a guy who owns hundreds of german postcards of Lower Silesia and openly admits it used to be german, the problem is neither Greater Poland, nor eastern Silesia have been german.
Bratwurst Boy:
Where had been all the slavic towns and villages at 200 A.D ???? I can't see any....only germanic ones!

Where have been all the germanic villages in 700AD? Or for that matter at 200 A.D? Why are all the towns in that area built by Poles?

Oh wait its because we erased all archeological sign of Germans there right?
Des EssientesThreads: 11
Posts: 2,318
Joined: Feb 6, 10  Pictures: 4 ♂ [Suspended] 		 May 12, 11, 00:14    #22
Polish territories are not natively German, nor are they natively Polish, nor even natively Celtic. All three of these ethnicities are originally from somewhere in the East- where the Proto-Indo-Europeans are from.
Archaeologists have proven that before any Indo-Europeans arrived in Central Europe there were already people living there.
Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11
Posts: 14,563
Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂ 		Edited by: Bratwurst Boy  May 12, 11, 00:16    #23
Sokrates:
BB you're talking to a guy who owns hundreds of german postcards of Lower Silesia and openly admits it used to be german, the problem is neither Greater Poland, nor eastern Silesia have been german.


You are my chum and you know it! :)

Sokrates:
Oh wait its because we erased all archeological sign of Germans there right?


You are meanies! :(

Des Essientes:
Archaeologists have proven that before any Indo-Europeans arrived in Central Europe there were already people living there.


Neanderthals or Cro Magnons are not here with us to discuss...so.....
KoalaThreads: 1
Posts: 433
Joined: May 4, 11 ♂ 		 May 12, 11, 00:18    #24
Bratwurst Boy:
No it's not...it was germanic before (Rugians) and again after the Slavs left.

No, Slavs didn't leave those territories, they were conquered in rather bloody wars and then marginalised. German expansion was luckily stopped in its track at one point when they encountered more established state structures (Polish state).

Regardless, BB, what is amusing is that you won't acknowledge that:
a)Germanic influence vanquished after Slavs settled in those territories. They were scarcely populated to begin with, after Germanic tribes went off to plunder Roman civilization there was even fewer people there and Slavs did find mostly deserted lands
b)Germanic is not not equal to German. Similarly, Slavic is not equal to Polish! You falsely assume that tribes that inhabited today's Poland in 2nd century are ancestors of Germans. They weren't, at least most of them weren't.
Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11
Posts: 14,563
Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂ 		Edited by: Bratwurst Boy  May 12, 11, 00:20    #25
Koala:
No, Slavs didn't leave those territories, they were conquered in rather bloody wars and then marginalised. German expansion was luckily stopped in its track at one point when they encountered more established state structures (Polish state).


Sure...as always...everything Germanics did was bloody conquering and everything Slavs did was wandering peacefully into empty lands...suuuuuure!

Koala:
They weren't, at least most of them weren't.


Well, if the Germanics aren't the ancestors of the Germans then what is? Please clue me in...
KoalaThreads: 1
Posts: 433
Joined: May 4, 11 ♂ 		Edited by: Koala  May 12, 11, 00:22    #26
Bratwurst Boy:
Sure...as always...everything Germanics did was bloody conquering and everything Slavs did was wandering peacefully into empty lands...suuuuuure!

Germanic invasions of Roman empire are well documented. German invasion on Slavic tribes in X century is well documented. Where's documentation of wars between native Germanic tribes and bloody Slavics in IV century?
Well, if the Germanics aren't the ancestors of the Germans then what is? Please clue me in...

Some Germanic tribes were. Most of them weren't. Most of ancient Slavic tribes are not ancestors of Poles.
Antek_StalichThreads: 6
Posts: 1,533
Joined: May 6, 11 ♂ 		Edited by: Antek_Stalich  May 12, 11, 00:22    #27
Ease up, Bratwurst Boy. Sometimes all of us get carried away, quite unnecessarily. You don't need to answer my question related to East Prussia; you know the history. You should however bear in mind that the history of places such as Danzig or Breslau was rather complex. So rarely Czech presence is ever mentioned in the Silesia talks, and the history of Danzig involves many nations, not only Poles and Germans.

If the Moderator saves my posts, let me tell you a story on a lighter note.
Some Silesian friends of mine -- acting as the real Silesian do, with specific sense of humour (they are Poles to German and German to Poles etc...) -- were participating in some 'Ritterorden" (I do not know the right English word for that), and as living in Poland they chose the Teutonic Order of course. You know, white coats with black crosses, helmets, shields etc. They had been wandering through Bieszczady Mts., visiting Marienburg/Malbork and had a lot of fun seeing panicked locals ;-)

Once, in some bar there in Katowice, there was a big dispute between some Polish history professor and the acting Grand Master of the Ritterorden. The professor was doing very well and the Grand Master was losing ground. The final question from the professor was:

-- So, how many Teutonic Knights were there in the battle of Tannenbaum/Grunwald, exactly?

The Grand Master had to say something to save his face. So he boldly answered:

-- TOO FEW!

;-))))
Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11
Posts: 14,563
Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂ 		Edited by: Bratwurst Boy  May 12, 11, 00:24    #28
Koala:
b)Germanic is not not equal to German.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanic_peoples

Koala:
Some Germanic tribes were. Most of them weren't.


So some germanic tribes are the ancestors of the Germans??? REALLY! I would never had thought....

Antek_Stalich:
Ease up, Bratwurst Boy. Sometimes all of us get carried away, quite unnecessarily. You don't need to answer my question related to East Prussia; you know the history.


I answered already...but my answer got thrown into the bin of random + a stern warning of the mod :(
Antek_StalichThreads: 6
Posts: 1,533
Joined: May 6, 11 ♂ 		Edited by: Antek_Stalich  May 12, 11, 00:26    #29
BTW, BB, you should claim German rights to Bergen, Norway. It was a Hansa city, too. :-)
Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11
Posts: 14,563
Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂ 		Edited by: Bratwurst Boy  May 12, 11, 00:27    #30
Antek_Stalich:
BTW, BB, you should claim German right to Bergen, Norway. It was a Hansa city, too. :-)


Tomorrow....

Koala:
Where's documentation of wars between native Germanic tribes and bloody Slavics in IV century?


The men were all out to sack Rome!

Antek_Stalich:
were participating in some 'Ritterorden" (I do not know the right English word for that), and as living in Poland they chose the Teutonic Order of course. You know, white coats with black crosses, helmets, shields etc. They had been wandering through Bieszczady Mts., visiting Marienburg/Malbork and had a lot of fun seeing panicked locals ;-)


Heh:)

But...panicked locals??? ;)

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