remember, forget, forgive, blame ... Holocaust Memorial Day

BzibziohThreads: 6 Posts: 3,648 Joined: Oct 15, 08 ♀	Jan 29, 10, 19:52 #181
Bratwurst Boy: Another far away country...isn't it interesting that your bestest friends where always from "far away"???? You've got any? Better 'far away' than none.

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂	Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Jan 29, 10, 19:53 #182
Bzibzioh: You've got any? Better 'far away' than none. Now we are all friends! :) Poles are even lending us their best football players... In South Africa we will also play for Poland, jawoll! ;)

MEMBER ♂

Edited by: Torq Jan 29, 10, 20:14 #183

Bratwurst Boy:

made the Hungarians natural german allies

Yeah - especially in WW2, when they gave shelter to thousands of Poles,
organised Polish schools and government institutions, allowed Polish intelligence
to openly operate form Budapest etc. etc. - some German allies ;)

BB:

I find it always curious that your "understanding" of Hungarians is sooo great...

The understanding (again - quotation marks not needed) comes from the fact that
Poland, just like Hungary, was a much bigger country in the past and that we lost
many of our provinces and major cities - just like Hungarians did. The history was
often very similar for Poland and Hungary and the mutual sympathy was equally
present on high-elite level (kings, generals, politicians, poets), just as on average
people level. Two nations from different ethnic backgrounds, with completely
different languages have formed such a formidable bond... eh, if only I was a poet
like Herbert (or at least Gałczyński ;)).

♂

Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Jan 29, 10, 20:16 #184

Torq:

The understanding (again - quotation marks not needed) comes from the fact that
Poland, just like Hungary, was a much bigger country in the past and that we lost
many of our provinces and major cities - just like Hungarians did.

Eh...Poland got land - Hungary and Germany lost land last time I looked.

Torq:

some German allies ;)

Well, yes, they were! ;)
Since 1879

http://wwi.lib.byu.edu/index.php/The_Dual_Alliance_Between_Austria-Hun gary_and_Germany

It was to honor our alliance with Austria-Hungary that Germany got to war 1918.
It was Polands allies who defeated us and took land away from Germany AND Hungary as punishment.
This grudge (between others) led to a new alliance between Germany and Hungary in WWII, to regain what was stolen.

How you are able to build from that an eternal friendship between Poland and Hungary is beyond me...

But maybe it's a slavic, romantic-polish thing! ;)

I'm leaving now....

A beer for all brave participants!

TheOtherThreads: 4 Posts: 1,440 Joined: Jul 13, 09 ♂	Edited by: TheOther Jan 29, 10, 20:21 #185
Torq: ... and the mutual sympathy was equally present ... just as on average people level. How would that be possible, Torq? Ordinary people of the 18th century (or earlier) didn't have a chance to meet foreigners; at least not in such large numbers to form a "bond" between countries on a peasant level.

MEMBER ♂

Edited by: Torq Jan 29, 10, 20:24 #186

Bratwurst Boy:

Eh...Poland got land - Hungary and Germany lost land last time I looked.

Look deeper - currently both Poland and Hungary are deprived of huge number
of their former provinces and even after WW1, Poland, even though regained
her independence, was much smaller than before partitions.

Bratwurst Boy:

Since 1879

Pffff... 131 years? You gotta be kidding me. Poles and Hungarians had common
kings back deep in Middle Ages! Sorry, you can have Klose and Podolski, you can
even have a half of Copernicus, but you can't have Hungarians - they're OUR
brothers! Period.

;)

BB:

But maybe it's a slavic thing! ;)

No, it's not - Hungarians are not Slavic and they have identical feelings towards
Poles - so there :-)

TheOther:

How would that be possible, Torq?

Of course, first the bond was formed on the noblemen level (in Poland szlachta
at some point constituted 10% of Polish society, so their ideas were filtered
and spread among peasantry relatively quickly) and then came to the lower classes.
But also, simple, peasant soldiers, fighting alongside Hungarians in Middle Ages
spreaded the friendship among lower classes.

♂ [Suspended]

Jan 29, 10, 21:44 #187

Bratwurst Boy:

Why? Because Hungarians and Poles never shared disputed borders? Could hence uphold their "friendship"?

Oh we did share a border and even had a "war" directly after Grunwald, the Hungarian king wanted to invade Poland with 10.000 men but because his nobles told him to go f*ck himself as far as invading Poland he was left with nothing.

The borders werent disputed because there was no political contest they were not disputed because both nations valued each other so highly any disputes got kicked under the rug immidiately.

Bratwurst Boy:

But maybe it's a slavic, romantic-polish thing! ;)

Last i checked Hungarians are Ugro-finnish ethnicity and its not a Polish thing though i admit the gig we have going with Hungary is special and unprecedented its about 700 years old too.

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂	Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Jan 29, 10, 22:04 #188
Sokrates: valued each other so highly any disputes got kicked under the rug immidiately. So....no re-fighting wars still 65 years afterwards or partying battles from 600 years back? Now then...no wonder...;)

♂ [Suspended]

Edited by: Sokrates Jan 29, 10, 22:35 #189

Bratwurst Boy:

So....no re-fighting wars still 65 years afterwards or partying battles from 600 years back? Now then...no wonder...;)

Well they didnt try to exterminate us and resettle survivors to Siberia, what conflicts we had were purely political and even then no one tried to annex anyone etc.

Both the Tuetonic Knights and Nazis tried to wipe Poland out completely its only natural that people celebrate Polands survival.

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂	Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Jan 29, 10, 22:41 #190
Sokrates: Well they didnt try to exterminate us and resettle survivors to Siberia, what conflicts we had were purely political and even then no one tried to annex anyone etc. They just didn't know you well enough....;)

♂ [Suspended]

Jan 29, 10, 22:47 #191

Bratwurst Boy:

They just didn't know you well enough....;)

And whats so bad about us? When we were power we let Germans from then much poorer Germany in, you came to a wealthy country that since its beginnings never knew hunger or poverty, you've been treated with respect, no one ever tried to forbid you your way of life etc.

In the end even when the Turks came and you were helpless Poland was there to help you, when you were fighting the 30 years war Poland though a regional power did not invade, we've been the most benevolent European power in our continents history (if you dont count exploiting Nathans grandparents:) ) especially in regards to Germany.

AmathystThreads: 30 Posts: 3,898 Joined: Nov 10, 06 ♀	Jan 29, 10, 22:52 #192
Bratwurst Boy: Look at a map of Europe Shelley, I know exactly how it looks, but if you what you say is true, how come they had the time to build many observation towers and extensive underground tunnels on Jersey? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupation_of_the_Channel_Islands

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂	Jan 29, 10, 22:56 #193
Amathyst: I know exactly how it looks, but if you what you say is true, how come they had the time to build many observation towers and extensive underground tunnels on Jersey? I think they were bored...

♀

Jan 29, 10, 23:25 #194

Bratwurst Boy:

I think they were bored...

Well, we should say thanks, our bobsleigh team use them to practice (you couldnt make it up if you tried!) also one guy has turned another tunnel into a fish farm...so they've been useful :D

Look, I find this thread pretty harsh and I dont think anyone in their right mind blames your average German for the mass murder of millions of people...I also think its about time, we all moved on..Terrible things happened on all sides...After a lively debate on here a couple of years ago, I took time to read about Dresden and it made me cry...I think people seem to forget that innocent Germans died in WWII too.

♂

Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Jan 29, 10, 23:29 #195

Amathyst:

I think people seem to forget that innocent Germans died in WWII too.

Who dishes out should take it...
The real problem I have is that many people want to have it as if the Germans woke up one morning and decided to run amok...it wasn't that way!

I still believe we Germans had just and fair reasons to be pissed off....I'm not judging my ancestors.

Amathyst:

Well, we should say thanks, our bobsleigh team use them to practice (you couldnt make it up if you tried!) also one guy has turned another tunnel into a fish farm...so they've been useful :D

Our pleasure! :)

♂

Edited by: Nathan Jan 30, 10, 05:01 #196

1172: German emperor Friedrich I Barbarossa defends the independence of the Polish dukes
1226: Konrad Mazowiecki asks the Teutonic Knights, a Crusading Order based in Germany, to help subdue the pagan north-eastern tribes of Prussia
1241: the Mongols invade Poland and defeat a joint army of Henry the Pious (Pajac :) of Silesia and the Teutonic Knights at the battle of Liegnitz/Wahlstatt

What all this fight is about? There was so much love, support and understanding between both of you. Now put aside your halbas of beer and gaily squeeze each other, mf (my firends ;)

Torq:

How glorious, eternal and pure the Polish-Hungarian friendship is!

1444: the Polish-Hungarian army is defeated by the Ottomans at Varna, Wladyslaw III is killed and Poland loses Hungary
1526: Ludwig Jagiellonian dies at the battle of Mohacs and the Jagiellonians lose Hungary and Bohemia

It seems like Hungary wanted to be "lost" from this "friendship" ;) It looks like Polish wanted to hump everything they saw around, even "friends" ;)
And to link this multitude of love and glorious "eternelity and purity":

Abandoned by its allies and threatened with civil war, Czecho-Slovakia was unable to fight its neighbors. Instead, it allowed Germany, Hungary, and Poland to bite off pieces

http://www.weeklyuniverse.com/2003/poland.htm
Perfect love triangle?!

Bratwurstboy:

Our pleasure!

Everybody knows - you haven't had to say it.

Sokrates:

Poland though a regional power did not invade (Germany)

Haha, with what? You left your army in Ukrainian fields together with its gay feathers ;). Now we have nice crops of sweet beets (Poles are sweet when they are asleep or dead:()

MEMBER ♂

Edited by: Torq Jan 30, 10, 08:17 #197

Nathan:

1226: Konrad Mazowiecki asks the Teutonic Knights, a Crusading Order based in Germany, to help subdue the pagan north-eastern tribes of Prussia

Which until today is considered one of the greatest Polish blunders of all time
and Mazowiecki is remembered as a traitor or a fool (or both).

Nathan:

It seems like Hungary wanted to be "lost" from this "friendship" ;)

Epic fail, Nathan.

The dates you mentioned are the best examples of Polish-Hungarian brotherhood
in arms, fighting muslim invaders and the loss is mentioned because Poles and Hungarians
had common kings back then - Władysław Warneńczyk and Ludwik Jagielończyk were kings
of both Poland and Hungary.

If two nations say that they are brothers today, just like they were for many
centuries and they express authentic, genuine sympathy and feelings of kinship
towards each other on countless occasions (elites as well as ordinary people)
then I guess it's not for others to question their friendship.
You can be jelaous of course, that's understandable when you have no friends
of your own. Ukraine - "Billy nae mates" of Europe ;)

Nathan:

Poles are sweet when they are asleep or dead

What? Have you been drinking so early in the morning, Nat?

SokratesThreads: 19 Posts: 4,464 Joined: Jan 19, 09 ♂ [Suspended]	Jan 30, 10, 14:19 #198
Nathan are you jealous because Ukraine has no friends or allies and nobody wants it as anything more then a tool? At no point in history was your country equal to Poland or treated as equal, today we're trying to make up for it but still there's little monkeys like you that make our job difficult:)

♂

Edited by: Nathan Jan 31, 10, 05:18 #199

Torq:

What? Have you been drinking so early in the morning, Nat?

Yes, it was Ukrainian horilka made out of outstanding sweet beets (*Nathan scratches his head not completely understanding where that sweetness comes from* ;) I am just testing my radar of tolerance, Torq ;)

Sokrates:

because Ukraine has no friends or allies

Well, off the hook I may mention Georgia, which is our friend and ally. But I see also many warm feelings coming from Poland and Germany and I dearly want to hug all of you, guys and girls. Also I feel that Crow will raise his whole country to help his brothers in time of hardship. So - plenty, sweety.

Sokrates:

At no point in history was your country equal to Poland or treated as equal

I don't know why you always feel subservient, Sokrates. I consider you as my peer. Please, don't bow - I like you the way you are, my little old brat (English word, not Ukrainian ;)

Sokrates:

still there's little monkeys like you that make our job difficult

Nobody asked you to enter our jungle - the rules here are different from those of pampered little diaper-destroyers like yourself. Learn to survive or get the hell out ;)

joepilsudskiThreads: 44 Posts: 2,521 Joined: Apr 27, 07 ♂	Jan 31, 10, 08:18 #200
Remember and forgive. 'Blessed are the merciful, For they shall receive mercy' Bolshevik Revolution, Holodomor, Holocaust all in a continuum. 'Satan must be let loose for a little while'

Easy_TerranThreads: 4 Posts: 473 Joined: Mar 31, 08 ♂	Feb 2, 10, 03:00 #201
Bratwurst Boy: Prussia was good for you - we should just annex you again and be done with it! Prussia - a mostly stolen land which grew wider by the sword and murder, out of a tiny shithole given to the Gerries by the ruler of Mazowsze, if I remeber correctly. Prussians kissed Polish king's shoe once. They will again. PS. BB, you lost your cool completely, matey.

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