PolishForums.com
POLAND . The Unofficial Guide
 Unanswered | Archives
Republic of Poland Online Witamy, Guest | PF Members | Gold Members

Polish Forums / History of Poland /

Why did Russia attack Poland in WW2?


page 6 of 6:  « Prev  1  2  3  4  5  6 posts: 175

FlaglessPoleThreads: 7
Posts: 1,394
Joined: Aug 19, 10 ♂ 		 May 15, 11, 17:50    #151
ConstantineK:
It is ridiculous, how you represent and understand current situation inside Russian society. Believe me, nobody here adore Stalin

Really? So why is Putin so hell-bent on sugar-coating Stalin's image??

It is designed for teachers to promote patriotism among the Russian young, and seems to follow an attempt backed by Prime Minister Vladimir Putin to re-evaluate Stalin's record in a more positive light.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/2672717/Josef- Stalin-acted-rationally-in-killing-millions-claims-Russian-textbook.ht ml
SeanusThreads: 22
Posts: 30,158
Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂ 		 May 15, 11, 17:51    #152
Names, please :)

Ah, that's Georgia's problem, is it? ;)
ConstantineKThreads: 35
Posts: 1,949
Joined: May 10, 07 ♂ 		 May 15, 11, 17:56    #153
FlaglessPole:
It is designed for teachers to promote patriotism among the Russian young, and seems to follow an attempt backed by Prime Minister Vladimir Putin to re-evaluate Stalin's record in a more positive light.


The key quotation is this "By Chris Irvine 8:25AM BST 03 Sep 2008". Can you please cite any Russian governmental source of Stalin adoration?
FlaglessPoleThreads: 7
Posts: 1,394
Joined: Aug 19, 10 ♂ 		Edited by: FlaglessPole  May 15, 11, 18:00    #154
ConstantineK:
The key quotation is this "By Chris Irvine 8:25AM BST 03 Sep 2008". Can you please cite any Russian governmental source of Stalin adoration?

do you deny the ongoing white-washing of Stalin's legacy in Russian textbooks???
ConstantineKThreads: 35
Posts: 1,949
Joined: May 10, 07 ♂ 		 May 15, 11, 18:10    #155
FlaglessPole:
do you deny the ongoing white-washing of Stalin's legacy in Russian textbooks???


Absolutely and Decisively
FlaglessPoleThreads: 7
Posts: 1,394
Joined: Aug 19, 10 ♂ 		Edited by: FlaglessPole  May 15, 11, 18:19    #156
ConstantineK:
Absolutely and Decisively

gee pardon my confusion and allow me to quote the article which in turn quotes the book, A History of Russia, 1900-1945:

The book, A History of Russia, 1900-1945, will be used as a teaching guide in Russian schools, 55 years after Stalin died.

It is produced by the country's leading school book publishers Prosveshenije, a state-supported company that used to have a monopoly on the supply of classroom texts in the Soviet era.

Editor Alexander Danilove said: "We are not defending Stalin. We are just exploring his personality, explaining his motives and showing what he really achieved."

Alexander Kamensky, of the Russia State University for the Humanities, said the manual was a sign that teaching history in schools has become "an ideological instrument."

as you can see Alexander Kamansky differs from your assessment, no offence but I'll take his word over yours
ConstantineKThreads: 35
Posts: 1,949
Joined: May 10, 07 ♂ 		 May 15, 11, 18:26    #157
FlaglessPole:
It is produced by the country's leading school book publishers Prosveshenije, a state-supported company that used to have a monopoly on the supply of classroom texts in the Soviet era.

FlaglessPole:
The book, A History of Russia, 1900-1945, will be used as a teaching guide in Russian schools, 55 years after Stalin died.


To your understanding of modern situation with education i Russia; there is no centralizing supply of teaching books in Russia. Each school is willing to choose its own textbooks for teaching process. The word "recommended" dose not automatically mean that exactly this book will be bought by the particular school.
FlaglessPoleThreads: 7
Posts: 1,394
Joined: Aug 19, 10 ♂ 		 May 15, 11, 18:28    #158
ConstantineK:
The word "recommended" dose not automatically mean that exactly this book will be bought by the particular school.

yet the initiative is backed by Putin, and let's not kid each other here, what he says goes...
ConstantineKThreads: 35
Posts: 1,949
Joined: May 10, 07 ♂ 		 May 15, 11, 19:09    #159
FlaglessPole:
yet the initiative is backed by Putin


Is it Putin himself who said you this?
SeanusThreads: 22
Posts: 30,158
Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂ 		 May 15, 11, 19:22    #160
He was said to have said it but then retracted it later, CK.

Now, those lands were?? ;)
ZIGGYPULASKI  May 15, 11, 21:42    #161
THANK YOU Flagless Pole for understanding the message I am trying to convey here.It took many years for me to move past my hatred of Germans and Russians.We all know what they did and so do they.Not one innocent life was brought back thru my hatred,but one life was slowly being poisoned...mine.I was taught to hate from my elders sense of powerlessness and victimhood.I can break the cycle,I can teach my sons not to forget,but at the same time not to hate.
Pro_Svet_SpbThreads: 1
Posts: 61
Joined: Apr 10, 10 ♂ 		 Jun 13, 11, 19:36    #162
On January, 12th
1940 Memorandum of the French ambassador with remarks concerning the breadboard model of the collection of the English-ex-Soviet negotiations prepared by the English party:
"As a result of reading of these documents the impression is made that from the very beginning and till the end of negotiations Russian government persistently aspired to giving to the discussed contract as much as possible universal and effective character.
It is represented that this aspiration of the Soviet government effectively to block all ways for the German aggression irrespectively from that, it is sincere or not, constantly faced the English-French restraint and obvious intention of two governments to limit sphere of Russian intervention … As a result in the planned collection will find the acknowledgement is glad those arguments who - is sincere or not - asserts that the government of the USSR was threw on the party of Germany only owing to fluctuations of England and France, their unwillingness unconditionally to act on the party of Moscow...
English "the Dark blue book" risks to cause thereby the extremely undesirable polemic in present conditions ". [PRO, FO, 371/24395, pp. 70-72.] [4]
On January, 18th
1940 Question on the publication "Dark blue book" is discussed at session of the British office. Halifax has spoken against her publication. As a result the office "has agreed that the offered publication" Dark blue book "about negotiations with the Soviet government in the summer of 1939 is represented now inexpedient". [PRO, FO, 371/24395, pp. 87] [4]
On January, 19th
1940 *) the French government under the agreement with the English government has offered the general M.Gamelenu and admiral F. Darlanu to develop the plan "Direct intrusion to caucasus". The Deputy нач. The General staff of the Air Forces of France a gene. Бержеро: "from r thow Near East approach to Baku … will begin Then it will develop in northern direction towards to the armies coming from Scandinavia and Finland to Moscow. [P.Stehlin. Temoignage pour l'Ristoire. Paris, 1964, p.215]
Spring
1940 *) the Plan "MA-6" (Great Britain) and "RIP" (France) about bombardment of Baku, Grozny and Batumi (intended to allocate 90-100 planes of type "Glenn Martin" and "Blenhejm" shown in 9 groups). ["Forses aeriennes francases", decembre 1961, p.842].
On March, 16th
1940 *) Doklad Gamelena about "war Conducting" (about intrusion into the Soviet Transcaucasia) [J.Bardoux. Journal d'un temoin de la troisieme. Paris. 1957. p.203-204]).
On March, 20th
1940 *) Meeting in Aleppo (Syria): by June 1940 building of 20 airdromes for performance of plans "MA-6" and "RIP" will be finished.
On April, 17th
1940 *) Vejgan (a clod. English forces in Syria and Lebanon) Gamelenu: "preparation of air blow will be finished by the end of June - to the beginning of July". [M.Weygand. Memoires. v.3. Paris, 1950, p.71].
Spring-summer
1942 London Polish government refuses to send the armies formed in territory of the USSR, on front and has deduced them to the Near East (it was just during Stalingrad fight).
Pro_Svet_SpbThreads: 1
Posts: 61
Joined: Apr 10, 10 ♂ 		Edited by: Pro_Svet_Spb  Jun 13, 11, 19:50    #163
• 1933 - Refusal of Poland to take part in the offered USSR "East pact". Poland and Germany have suggested the USSR to conclude such pact without France and Czechoslovakia but on such conditions the USSR has refused

• January 1934 - Nonaggression pact between Germany and Poland.

On March, 7th
1936 Introduction by Germany of armies in the Rhine area. Poland has supported this step. In the answer France has declared that has no more obligations to Warsaw. Great Britain has taken of a neutral position. Later Poland also has supported Anschluss Austria.

On October, 2nd
1938 Polish armies occupied Czech Teshin and territory adjoining to him (also [3]). Thus, Poland together with Hitlerite Germany participated in occupation and a partition of Czechoslovakia and input of the Soviet armies to Poland was not unique and not the first similar action of that time.

On April, 14th
1939 British government has suggested Soviet Union to give unilateral obligations to neighboring countries. Obligations to the USSR it was not provided.

1939 Soviet-Japanese conflict on the river the Halhin-goal. During the same time Great Britain concludes the contract with the Japanese government.
June
1939 Confidential negotiations of Great Britain with Germany on sections of spheres of influence. Germany was offered Russia and China.
October
1939 Consideration by committee of chiefs of staffs of Great Britain of a question "About positive and announcement negative sides Great Britain wars of Russia (it even before the Finnish war!).

It is obvious that the facts and the statements, similar the aforesaid, always try to trace foreign policy departments of all countries. And, most likely, appreciably then all it was known to a management of the USSR. Therefore there is nothing surprising in the followed list towards Germany. And to accuse Russia of it probably nevertheless hypocrisy. Or, the modern language, "display of double standards".
Pro_Svet_SpbThreads: 1
Posts: 61
Joined: Apr 10, 10 ♂ 		 Jun 13, 11, 21:50    #164
polak123:
If Russia was with the Allies why would they back stab Poland.Was it for revenge or Coal.


On September, 30th, 1938 Warsaw has sent official inquiry to Berlin: whether she can count on a benevolent position of Germany if as a result of forthcoming intrusion of the Polish armies into Czechoslovakia there will be a confrontation between Poland and the USSR?

It means that Poland was already ready to begin war with the USSR at any moment!

So whom at that point in time to Stalin followed be afraid more — Poland or Germany?
teflcatThreads: 6
Posts: 1,074
Joined: May 29, 11 ♂ 		 Jun 13, 11, 22:13    #165
ConstantineK:
Believe me, nobody here adore Stalin

I worked in St. Petersburg for two years, '96-'98. Every Sunday on Nevsky Prospect a fairly large group of (mainly elderly) people stood with placards bearing Stalin's image. They clearly adored the man. OK, that was a while ago and several of those acolytes are, no doubt, dead now. Still, I find it extremely hard to believe your assertion that nobody adores Stalin in the Federation.
legendThreads: 9
Posts: 819
Joined: Apr 23, 11 ♂ 		Edited by: legend  Jun 13, 11, 22:23    #166
Pro_Svet_Spb:
On September, 30th, 1938 Warsaw has sent official inquiry to Berlin: whether she can count on a benevolent position of Germany if as a result of forthcoming intrusion of the Polish armies into Czechoslovakia there will be a confrontation between Poland and the USSR?

It means that Poland was already ready to begin war with the USSR at any moment!

So whom at that point in time to Stalin followed be afraid more — Poland or Germany?


Again did Poland follow through on these actions? No.
Poland only attacked her weaker members (just like Germany and Russia).

teflcat:
Still, I find it extremely hard to believe your assertion that nobody adores Stalin in the Federation.


Im sure there is some that do, some that dont.
Pro_Svet_SpbThreads: 1
Posts: 61
Joined: Apr 10, 10 ♂ 		Edited by: Pro_Svet_Spb  Jun 13, 11, 23:04    #167
legend:
Poland only attacked her weaker members (just like Germany and Russia).


Bigger fish eat smaller fish... i 100% agree

legend:
Again did Poland follow through on these actions? No.


They done something before and if that happened ones it could happen again:

On April, 25th, 1920 — Poland without declaration of war has attacked Russia which is bleeding profusely in civil war, and under the Riga contract has appropriated a part of the Ukrainian and Belorussian earths.

In October, 1920 the Polish armies have grasped Vilno and Vilensky area at Lithuania, inconsiderately having broken the Suvalksky pact.

P.S. I like all people, Russia and Poland should stay together with other eastern countries, but they let Americans to rule them....
Marek11111Threads: 49
Posts: 1,954
Joined: Aug 6, 09  Pictures: 1 ♂ 		 Jun 14, 11, 06:25    #168
Pro_Svet_Spb:
P.S. I like all people, Russia and Poland should stay together with other eastern countries, but they let Americans to rule them....

the problem is governments all people want peace and job so they can raise their family but the governments are evil. I like the idea about Poland developing friendship with Slavic nations not with the Anglo-Saxon evil bastards.
Zman  Jun 14, 11, 16:01    #169
Pro_Svet_Spb:
On April, 25th, 1920 — Poland without declaration of war has attacked Russia which is bleeding profusely in civil war, and under the Riga contract has appropriated a part of the Ukrainian and Belorussian earths.


As a matter of fact, polish forces never attacked Russia and never even reached it during the war of 1920. They were only present in Belarus and Ukraine and that was just right.
1jolaThreads: 33
Posts: 2,737
Joined: Sep 23, 08 ♂ 		 Jun 14, 11, 16:28    #170
Pro_Svet_Spb:
On January, 12th

You got a source link for this short quote?
Pro_Svet_SpbThreads: 1
Posts: 61
Joined: Apr 10, 10 ♂ 		 Jun 15, 11, 20:32    #171
1jola:
1jola



Academician A.M.Samsonov. The Second World War. М: the Science. 1990. 638 with.
D.M.proektor. Fascism: an aggression and  destruction way. М: the Science. 1989. 584 with.
Z.Aldeber, J.Bender, I.Grusha, etc. History of Europe. 1996. 383 with. (Russian lane Histore de l'Europe, Hachette. 1992)
M.Pankratov. The English-ex-Soviet negotiations of 1939//the International life, 1989, № 8, with. 28-39.
Round the non-aggression pact (documents on the Soviet-German relations of 1939)//the International life, 1989, № 9, with. 90-123


The British ambassador in Finland: "Most likely, the winner will be not Hitler, and Stalin (in the future European war - a comment of recentury) and consequently he represents the greatest danger … As there is a question how to cause a damage to Soviet Union, I suggest to put a maximum of efforts to reaching the consent with Japan which sudden attack will be pushed by her inveterate enmity to the Bolshevism". [The Origins of the Second World War. London-N.Y. 1971, p.270]
Pro_Svet_SpbThreads: 1
Posts: 61
Joined: Apr 10, 10 ♂ 		 Jun 16, 11, 00:00    #172
Zman:
As a matter of fact, polish forces never attacked Russia and never even reached it during the war of 1920. They were only present in Belarus and Ukraine and that was just right.


On January, 31st, 1919 ССРБ left structure of RSFSR, and her independence officially recognized the government of the Soviet Russia.

On February, 2nd, 1919 in Minsk I Vsebelorussky congress of Councils of workers, soldier's and Red Army the deputies, accepted Constitution ССРB has gathered on February, 3rd.

On February, 27th, 1919 ССРB has united from the Lithuanian Soviet Socialist Republic in the Litovsko-Belorussian Soviet Socialist Republic (abbr. Litbel), existed till August, 1919. Thus the earths of the east of Belarus were a part of RSFSR.

In the Soviet and modern Belorussian historiography on January, 1st 1919 it is considered date of first declaration BSSR.

The Polish occupation

In February, 1919 the Polish armies have intruded on territory of Belarus. On August, 8th the Polish armies have occupied Minsk which has been beaten off by Red Army only in July of next year [19].

By results of the Riga peace treaty of 1921 to Poland the territories of the Western Belarus which are to the east from Linii Kerzona on which the Belorussian population prevailed departed.

http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/История_Белоруссии

Zman:
present in Belarus and Ukraine and that was just right.


Who said that was right, people who lived there?
SeanusThreads: 22
Posts: 30,158
Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂ 		 Jun 16, 11, 00:01    #173
The AK never attacked the Soviet Union? Really?? ;) ;)
saschaThreads: 13
Posts: 3,855
Joined: Jun 10, 10  Pictures: 2 ♂ 		 Jun 16, 11, 18:51    #174
Pro_Svet_Spb:
How about americans missiles for 200 millions of euro in Poland against who?

good question?

Marek11111:
I like the idea about Poland developing friendship with Slavic nations not with the Anglo-Saxon evil bastards.

comes naturally. :)

Seanus:
The AK never attacked the Soviet Union? Really?? ;) ;)

never heard about that either. ;)))
Wroclaw BoyThreads: 57
Posts: 5,478
Joined: Jul 3, 09  Pictures: 2  Gold Member MEMBER ♂ 		 Aug 4, 11, 00:43    #175
BRATWURST BOY: Don't sweat it, Poland was best in everything...they should have won! Mean enemies wouldn't let it! ;)


Ohh the German has spoken.

page 6 of 6:  « Prev  1  2  3  4  5  6

Home / History of Poland / Unanswered [this forum] | Similar


Similar discussions:

What do Poles owe to Russians?  Defeat at Rujan island, Arkona or story about western most boundaries of Poland


Random: Best places to visit in Poland

Only registered and logged-in users may post here. Please log in or register.


61 [Guests - 39 / Members - 22] users on live forums now


Home | Unanswered | Archives | Random | Statistics Time in Poland: 18:45 / May 26

About Us | Contact Us | Rules, Privacy | Poland Advertising
© 2005-12 PolishForums.com