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Sabaton 40-1. Poland WW2 (updated with: Uprising)


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Warsaw8Threads: 7
Posts: 227
Joined: Jul 23, 08 ♂ 		Edited by: Moderator  Aug 17, 08, 13:11    #1
Im sure some of you know the old story. I was unaware untill one of my bands dedicated a song to it. Its about the invasion of germans into poland. Great song with cool pics. One scene you can see the poles fighting on horseback.

There is a few versions of it on youtube in Polish aswell.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epeQwq-aYV0

Germany got mitt unds Poland

broken link replaced by new one
Warsaw8Threads: 7
Posts: 227
Joined: Jul 23, 08 ♂ 		 Aug 22, 08, 01:41    #2
Would of thought the thread be a better hit then this.......
celinskiThreads: 83
Posts: 2,800
Joined: Nov 14, 07 ♀ 		 Aug 22, 08, 07:50    #3
Warsaw8:

Would of thought the thread be a better hit then this.......


It is a great song and a gesture long overdue I think the reason for lack of response is this was posted a few months ago.
McCoyThreads: 46
Posts: 1,756
Joined: Jul 3, 08 ♂ 		Edited by: McCoy  Mar 15, 09, 23:08    #4
and this one is from gerries about the warsaw uprising:
Eagle20Threads: 34
Posts: 130
Joined: Dec 12, 07 ♂ 		 Aug 10, 10, 20:45    #5
Thread attached on merging:
Sabaton - Uprising

Another one form Sabaton:

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=1 06077788
Monia  Jul 7, 11, 20:32    #6
Merged: did you know that ......



This track is a Swedish metal band Sabaton Fri "40:1". is devoted to the Battle of Wizna. In an interview for "Rzeczpospolita" group leader, Joakim Brodén said: Polish fans had sent us information about the battle of Wizna. When we read of the deeds of Captain Wladyslaw Raginisa and his friends, it was for us the story so improbable that we thought at first that may not be true. Such incredible courage of 720 soldiers resisted to 42 thousand of Germans! We recognized immediately that this is the most interesting battle of history, and of course we wrote a song about it, "40:1".
An ​​amateur video was made also to this song . There is also a comic book devoted to this battle.
skysoulmateThreads: 41
Posts: 3,039
Joined: Jan 10, 10 ♂ 		Edited by: skysoulmate  Jul 7, 11, 21:23    #7
Monia, the link doesn't work, do you have another??

PS. Do you live in Sverige?
WroclawThreads: 77
Posts: 7,404
Joined: Apr 1, 06  Pictures: 3 ♂ [Moderator] 		 Jul 7, 11, 21:29    #8
skysoulmate:
Monia, the link doesn't work, do you have another??


it works here. it might be down to your location.
skysoulmateThreads: 41
Posts: 3,039
Joined: Jan 10, 10 ♂ 		 Jul 7, 11, 21:51    #9
Wroclaw:
it works here. it might be down to your location


Interesting, thanks.

Must be an iPhone/iPad thing. Usually all YouTube videos work just fine?
szkotja2007Threads: 38
Posts: 2,544
Joined: Dec 29, 06 ♂ 		 Jul 7, 11, 21:59    #10
..........you could .try this link
Monia  Jul 7, 11, 22:35    #11
skysoulmate:
PS. Do you live in Sverige?


No , I live in Warszawa :)

Did you know about that song ?
OgorkiThreads: -
Posts: 131
Joined: Aug 4, 08 ♂ 		 Jul 8, 11, 00:36    #12
Warsaw8:
One scene you can see the poles fighting on horseback.

In 1939 a large percentage of the german army was horse drawn.
Both germany and Poland had cavalry units. Poland used the cavalry to attack german
infantry with success. Battle of Krojanty - Polish cavalry defeats german infantry advance.
Later after the battle german tanks arrive. An Italian journalist sees some dead Polish horsemen
and writes how brave the Polish were to attack tanks on horse back. And so the historical slur
was created - spread by Russians. Lots of WWII history is bollocks in the same way.
JonnyMThreads: 16
Posts: 4,487
Joined: Mar 9, 11 ♂ 		 Jul 8, 11, 00:44    #13
Ogorki:
And so the historical slur
was created - spread by Russians.

Not especially a slur. And a lot to do with some (famous at the time) newsreel footage of a Polish cavalry charge.
isthatu2Threads: 13
Posts: 5,225
Joined: Apr 3, 08 ♂ 		 Jul 8, 11, 00:45    #14
Ogorki:
Poland used the cavalry etc

There really should be a sticky thread with this in........
grubasThreads: 20
Posts: 1,452
Joined: Feb 1, 10  Pictures: 1 ♂ 		 Jul 8, 11, 07:47    #15
JonnyM:
And a lot to do with some (famous at the time) newsreel footage of a Polish cavalry charge.

I was not aware of any Polish cavalry charge newsreel footage,can you tell more about it ?Are you sure you are not talking about German propaganda movie Kampfgeschwader Lutzow from 1941?Lots of captured Polish equipment and Slovakian cavalry unit took part in this movie.
isthatu2:
There really should be a sticky thread with this in........

I don't see what's wrong with using cavalry?Anybody a little bit familiar with military history knows that cavalry units in 1939 existed in every army.
JonnyMThreads: 16
Posts: 4,487
Joined: Mar 9, 11 ♂ 		 Jul 8, 11, 10:19    #16
grubas:
I was not aware of any Polish cavalry charge newsreel footage,can you tell more about it ?Are you sure you are not talking about German propaganda movie Kampfgeschwader Lutzow from 1941?Lots of captured Polish equipment and Slovakian cavalry unit took part in this movie.

No. It was about 1938, staged by the Polish Army and filmed (I think) by Pathe News - it was the last true cavalry charge in Europe, with ceremonial uniforms, sabres etc. Worth watching - it must be on the internet somewhere.
1jolaThreads: 33
Posts: 2,737
Joined: Sep 23, 08 ♂ 		 Jul 8, 11, 10:36    #17
Ogorki:
In 1939 a large percentage of the german army was horse drawn.

Indeed. Around one million horses.

horses

More here: http://www.histomil.com/viewtopic.php?f=95&t=2253
RobertLeeThreads: 12
Posts: 133
Joined: May 26, 11 ♂ 		Edited by: RobertLee  Jul 8, 11, 11:34    #18
Ogorki:
In 1939 a large percentage of the german army was horse drawn.

Would be even more if they didn't "capture" thousands of supply trucks from Czechoslovakia.
Still, they had too few trucks/horses for their invasion of USSR.
PolskiMocThreads: 7
Posts: 488
Joined: Mar 15, 10 ♂ [Suspended] 		 Jul 8, 11, 12:54    #19
It is actually approx 58:1
As it was 720 Poles & 42,200 Germans in the battle of Wizna
isthatu2Threads: 13
Posts: 5,225
Joined: Apr 3, 08 ♂ 		Edited by: isthatu2  Jul 8, 11, 12:59    #20
grubas:
I don't see what's wrong with using cavalry?

Did I say there was anything wrong with using cavalry? It was just a call for this myth of charging tanks to be put to bed finally :)
JonnyM:
staged by the Polish Army and filmed

Its very famous footage,no one claims its of the war either as it was used in pre september 1939 newspapers in britain to show how "strong" the Polish forces were.
(and sorry 1jola,the nerd in me cannot resist ,that photo of german cavalry is pre 1936...)

Still from pre war newsreel
Still from pre war newsreel
PolskiMocThreads: 7
Posts: 488
Joined: Mar 15, 10 ♂ [Suspended] 		 Jul 8, 11, 13:05    #21
Ogorki:
In 1939 a large percentage of the german army was horse drawn.


Yes, 80 percent of the German Army was horse drawn in WW2.
NathanThreads: 33
Posts: 1,846
Joined: Feb 13, 09 ♂ 		 Jul 8, 11, 13:25    #22
PolskiMoc:
Yes, 80 percent of the German Army was horse drawn in WW2

No surprise, even if it is true. According to the Versaille which was discarded in 1935 (if I recall correctly) there were not many choices to practice militarily with. I saw a movie from 1934 where the show-training was mostly made up of cavalry and car-racing. And subsequently 4 years or so is not sufficient time to completely restructure the army. But it seems that as soon as the tanks presented all their capabilities, horses (thanks God) became absolete on the battlefield.
convexThreads: 46
Posts: 7,185
Joined: Nov 25, 09  Pictures: 2 ♂ 		 Jul 8, 11, 13:46    #23
Nathan:
horses (thanks God) became absolete on the battlefield.

Horses were used in logistics, not on the battlefield.
1jolaThreads: 33
Posts: 2,737
Joined: Sep 23, 08 ♂ 		 Jul 8, 11, 14:01    #24
convex:
Horses were used in logistics, not on the battlefield.


The German 1st Kavallerie-Brigade:
192 officers
6.492 NCOs and men
6.245 rifles
538 pistols
133 LMGs
44 HMGs
9 mortars 5cm
18 mortars 8cm
21 AT guns
- AT rifles
12 infantry guns 7,5cm
12 field howitzers 10,5cm
12 AA guns 2cm
6 armoured cars
- tankettes
205 cars (PKWs)
222 trucks (LKWs)
318 motorcycles
4.552 horses
409 horse wagons]

See the sabers hanging? 6 October 1939 in Warsaw.

horses
convexThreads: 46
Posts: 7,185
Joined: Nov 25, 09  Pictures: 2 ♂ 		 Jul 8, 11, 14:23    #25
1jola:
The German 1st Kavallerie-Brigade:

Interesting. Apparently they were used for patrol. Towards the end of the war they built up a couple of full cavalry divisions to act as scouts and for partisan warfare.

Have some reading to do.
1jolaThreads: 33
Posts: 2,737
Joined: Sep 23, 08 ♂ 		 Jul 8, 11, 15:29    #26
convex:
Towards the end of the war they built up a couple of full cavalry divisions to act as scouts and for partisan warfare.

Yes, the last charge of WWII was by Waffen SS in 1945. Clearly, it all depends on the terrain you are engaged in, so using tanks in mountainous or swampy terrain would be silly.
Despite all the advanced technology, U.S. will have to pack up and leave Afghanistan beaten by the low-tech shepherds, just like everyone had to do before them. We could say the Afghanies are invincible.
Monia  Jul 8, 11, 18:34    #27
convex:
Horses were used in logistics, not on the battlefield.


The cavalry used in WWII engaged in the most lightweight tasks assigned to special groups - operated on back the enemy by doing a quick raids, ambushes, attacking caravans and wreaking havoc actions afflicted.

The development of military technology, especially l arms and artillery caused a slow loss of
the importance of classic cavalry formations. Fixed lines of trenches, dam engineering, and especially machine guns prevented the use of cavalry

Further development of techniques focused primarily on armored vehicles and aircraft meant that in World War II, only few armies had cavalry units ( Polish and German both had cavarly units , not used as only logistic means ) .

Heroic action in the Polish cavalry in September Campaign (the famous riding charge of Krojanty), could not change the fact that the cavalry of the past go away already.

http://ulani.info/?p=816

Birth of a myth

General Heinz Guderian, commander of 19 Corps, wrote, "we were able to completely encircle the enemy in a wooded area north of Schwetz and west of Graudenz. Pomeranian Cavalry Brigade in total ignorance of our arsenal, made the charge at our works with sabers and lances incurring huge losses. "


But it was not an attack on tanks but on regular troops ( with heavy equipment at the disposal like cannons ) causing heavy losses in German army .

After this attack, the Germans were brutally destroyed and ridiculed , so they decided to take revenge by creating a false myth. German military officials brought to the place of the Polish cavalry charge two war correspondents:

William L Shirer and Indro Montanellego. Journalists were informed that the shambles we saw was the result of an attack Polish cavalry against German tanks. None of the correspondents did not watch live scenes of combat. The journalists could rely solely on verbal relations of Germans and what they saw on the spot.

Their relationship, along with the report of General Guderian, gave rise to the myth of Polish cavalry attacking tanks with lances .Shirer described his memories of his battle shown in the "Berlin Diary" in 1941 and in the book "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich" . In the latter, published in 1959 wrote a book: "Horses against tanks! Long lance cavalry against tanks ! Although brave, heroic and mad, attack the Poles had no chance against the German artillery. "

Mention of the alleged charge then appeared in many books, magazines and so-called "documents" of war, which often showed the scene of the attack the Polish cavalry armed with lances and only sabers against German tanks. More recently still, in 2007, World War II magazine in its special collector's edition titled "Blitzkrieg" put pictures of the Pomeranian Cavalry Brigade during maneuvers. The caption was: "Pomeranian Cavalry Brigade attacked with lances and swords as their medieval predecessors,"
HarryThreads: 62
Posts: 8,508
Joined: May 2, 07 ♂ [Suspended] 		 Jul 8, 11, 19:09    #28
40 to 1 when the 40 are attacking concrete bunkers and win? How about 50 to 1 when the one is defending nothing more substantial than 'walls' made of mud and bags of seed and the one wins? Now that is something to sing about.

Front rank, fire! Reload. Rear rank, fire! Reload. Front rank, fire! Reload. Rear rank, fire! Reload. Front rank, fire! Independent, fire at will.

That's very nice of him.
WroclawThreads: 77
Posts: 7,404
Joined: Apr 1, 06  Pictures: 3 ♂ [Moderator] 		 Jul 8, 11, 19:18    #29
Harry:
How about 50 to 1 when the one is defending nothing more substantial than 'walls' made of mud and bags of seed and the one wins?


yes, but rorkes drift is not in Poland.
HarryThreads: 62
Posts: 8,508
Joined: May 2, 07 ♂ [Suspended] 		 Jul 8, 11, 19:20    #30
Wroclaw:
yes, but rorkes drift is not in Poland.

Neither is Smolensk, but we still have a tiresome number of posts about that....

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