Self-interest explains anti-Goyism, anti-Semitism

♂

Jul 29, 10, 19:29 #1

Chiding Poles for their real or alleged anti-Semitism is as unjustified and ahistorical as chiding Jews for their anti-Gentile agenda. This has been the case since time immemorial, long before any idiiots who thouht up up 'political correctness' which selectviely defends some groups while eagerly bashing others. And it is likely to be around long after PC is onyl a distant memory.
Political history is not about Christian charity, morality or altruism but about survival and power. Led by its elite, every nation behaves in a way it perceives best serves its political, economic, military and cultural self-interest working with the attributes it has at hand. At time it may reach for the assets of its neighbours.
The pronounced anti-Gentile thread of the Jewish identity has obviously worked because that small nation of a scant 15 million has not only survived for thosuands of years, but has actually prospered. At a given point in time, siding with Bolshevism was regarded as the only option by many Jews. And similarly, Poland's National Democrat ideology at a given time and place was also percevied by its founders as a justified way of asserting the country's identity and interests.
That the agendas of different nations are often in conflict with one anotehr should surprise no-one. Until all our planet's denizens evolve into a single race governed by a single state structure (if ever?), that will ubndoutbedly continue to be the case.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Jul 29, 10, 19:32 #2
That's right, yes.

♂

Jul 30, 10, 17:03 #3

Polonius3:

Chiding Poles for their real or alleged anti-Semitism is as unjustified and ahistorical as chiding Jews for their anti-Gentile agenda. This has been the case since time immemorial, long before any idiiots who thouht up up 'political correctness' which selectviely defends some groups while eagerly bashing others. And it is likely to be around long after PC is onyl a distant memory.

I believe there was anti-semitism in Poland as there was in the rest of Europe. And it would have been confined to small groups with an agender, but if so many Jews settled in Poland they must have found it a safer place to live. Jews are very far apart as regards to their religious beliefs from Catholics, frum Jews (frum=religious) live their lives according to the Torah. The Ten Commanders given to Moses on Mount Sinai, also the 613 Mitzvot also part of the commandments. Which to a frum Jew it is the word of G-d and must be followed without exception. The dietary laws, how to conduct the Sabbath, and all the other areas of a Jews life. The Commandments state "I am the Lord thy G-d thou shall not have a strange G-d before me." That is where the Jews are at odds with the Christians, the New Testament states three G-d's in one. To a Jew this is heresy and idolatry, Even his mother Mary conceiving a baby outside marriage, put him outside the the Jewish religion. It is a very complex situation and a very heard religion to belong to, and to follow its laws but they have lived and died for their beliefs as other religions have.

I have written G-d as I did, out of respect for any Jew who might read this and would like to correct any mistakes I may have made.

I am in total agreement with you about PC being carried to far, it is only by discussion and explaining what our fears and our life is like, that we will correct the mistakes we all made in the past

MareGaeaThreads: 45 Posts: 5,527 Joined: Feb 6, 08 ♂	Jul 30, 10, 17:44 #4
Polonius3: survival and power So you can explain me exactly how I can survive Evony? Would be great as I am surrounded by enemies of which quite a few are stronger than my city and army is... >^..^< M-G (great!)

♂

Jul 30, 10, 18:20 #5

Polonius3:

Until all our planet's denizens evolve into a single race governed by a single state structure (if ever?), that will ubndoutbedly continue to be the case.

One single race isn't going to solve anything, and if you want to know why you can just look at Rwanda or North and South Korea, India and Pakistan or Irak and Iran. A one single state structure will not ever become a reality either, simply because there are too many people who want to have power. Oh, and is it true they're going to build a Mosque on Ground Zero? Yeah, Globalism. That's the way to go.

:)

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂	Jul 30, 10, 18:35 #6
A J: One single race isn't going to solve anything, nods We started out as a group of ape-humans and couldn't wait to get away from each other and to evolve into different groups. It's not in our DNA to become one big, boring, grey mass!

♂

Jul 30, 10, 21:21 #7

A J:

One single race isn't going to solve anything, and if you want to know why you can just look at Rwanda or North and South Korea, India and Pakistan or Irak and Iran

Yet should the human race evolve that way (and it looks likely), we won't have any choice in the matter except to get on with things.

A J:

ng, and if you want to know why you can just look at Rwanda or North and South Korea, India and Pakistan or Irak and Iran. A one single state structure will not ever become a reality either, simply because there are too many people who want to have power.

They said that about the nascent US -the Roman Empire too, yet one thrived for centuries and the other is just about still thriving.

A J:

Oh, and is it true they're going to build a Mosque on Ground Zero?

No. There's an existing (and long-standing) one a few blocks away that might be rebuilt due to fire regulations - some knee-jerk conservative 'journalists' picked up on that in order to outrage their moronic readers.

A J:

Yeah, Globalism. That's the way to go.

It is historically inevitable and largely to be welcomed.

♂

Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Jul 30, 10, 21:25 #8

jonni:

Yet should the human race evolve that way (and it looks likely), we won't have any choice in the matter except to get on with thing

No, it doesn't look like it...We started out looking rather identically but we evolved.
Nature means diversity, not uniformity!

jonni:

No. There's an existing (and long-standing) one a few blocks away that might be rebuilt due to fire regulations - some knee-jerk conservative 'journalists' picked up on that in order to outrage their moronic readers.

Well, it's enough to hurt the feeling of alot of Americans, relatives of the victims too.
Decency would demand to stop any such plans if it's met with such resistance.
The mosque-planners are not directly helping reconciliation...

♂

Edited by: A J Jul 30, 10, 21:43 #9

jonni:

Yet should the human race evolve that way (and it looks likely), we won't have any choice in the matter except to get on with things.

I wouldn't call this evolving, because no one actually evolves. We will still be the same human beings, and we will still be affected by our surroundings. I would call this a loss of variety at best, and you'll see that people will bicker about the exact same things as they were bickering about before. Again, just look at Rwanda, North and South Korea or Iraq and Iran. Aren't all these people of the same races? (Still killing eachother?)

I believe change has to come from within. It's our mentality that should change if we want to achieve a peaceful co-existence, and not necessarily our skincolour, because I really fail to see how a change of looks will magically change the way we think and feel about eachother. I guess your way of thinking is a bit too superficial for me?

jonni:

They said that about the nascent US -the Roman Empire too, yet one thrived for centuries and the other is just about still thriving.

Only a small group of people are thriving, the majority of people are being treated as expendable. (I would almost call them modern-day slaves.)

jonni:

No. There's an existing (and long-standing) one a few blocks away that might be rebuilt due to fire regulations - some knee-jerk conservative 'journalists' picked up on that in order to outrage their moronic readers.

There was a debate about it here, and some politicians seem to take it very serious because it seems one of our ministers forgot to mention that they were actually financing something, so I guess we'll see what's true and what's not?

jonni:

It is historically inevitable and largely to be welcomed.

That's easy to say when you think it will not affect you, but it will affect you aswell in the long run. I doubt you'll still have the same opinion when it happens to you.

;)

guzzlerThreads: 6 Posts: 165 Joined: Mar 28, 10 ♂	Jul 30, 10, 21:44 #10
A J: Oh, and is it true they're going to build a Mosque on Ground Zero? Yeah, Globalism. That's the way to go. No two blocks away, and I heard it is a Muslim community centre. It sounds very insensitive to me.

♂

Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Jul 30, 10, 21:45 #11

A J:

It's our mentality that should change if we want to achieve a peaceful co-existence,

Our "mentality" are natural instincts and have served us very well and made us to survivors and were guarantors of our success.

They will only change if they are no longer needed and not because some PC-ideologists wants us to.

A J:

(I would almost call them modern-day slaves.)

Well...the slaves from former times would surely dream of living like a "modern day"-slave. ;)

♂

Jul 30, 10, 21:50 #12

A J:

Only a small group of people are thriving, the majority of people are being treated as expendable. (I would almost call them modern-day slaves.)

Isn't this a regrettable part of normal human society?

A J:

There was a debate about it here, and some politicians seem to take it very serious because it seems one of our ministers forgot to mention that they were actually financing something, so I guess we'll see what's true and what's not?

They don't want public funding; they do want to modernise their prayer house, which is in an old building and isn't on the site of ground zero.

A J:

That's easy to say when you're not affected, but it will affect you aswell in the long run. I doubt you'll still have the same opinion when that happened.

Promoting globalisation is how some of us make our living - and it's hard to see any benefits in retaining the pre-globalised nation-state system. Also largely impossible to turn back the clock. The big questions are what globalisation actually means and what, if any, the world's options are.

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂	Jul 30, 10, 21:57 #13
jonni: Isn't this a regrettable part of normal human society? That is commie speech! Against what they wrote in your manifesto, not everybody can be a boss...the economy goes down the drain as we all know.

♂

Edited by: A J Jul 30, 10, 22:08 #14

jonni:

Isn't this a regrettable part of normal human society?

I doubt that's what you'll tell yourself when you're the one who's about to end up homeless. (Again, easy talking when you're still nice and comfy.)

;)

jonni:

Promoting globalisation is how some of us make our living - and it's hard to see any benefits in retaining the pre-globalised nation-state system.

I've gathered that much. Just remember that you can only preach to your own followers, and it shouldn't be a mystery to you that most people usually stop following as soon as they're starting to lose everything.

jonni:

Also largely impossible to turn back the clock. The big questions are what globalisation actually means and what, if any, the world's options are.

It means a lot of young people will have no future, and will have to work for little to nothing, but thanks for selling us out.

:(

♂

Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Jul 30, 10, 22:14 #15

jonni:

They don't want public funding; they do want to modernise their prayer house, which is in an old building and isn't on the site of ground zero.

Sen. King is asking for an inquiry of that mosque founding...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/07/13/rep-king-investigate-grou_n_6 43925.html

I hope they do it!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/7731852/Gro und-Zero-mosque-plan-angers-New-Yorkers.html

...
A woman living in the apartment building next to the proposed mosque said she couldn't accept the project.

"I'd be lying if I said it didn't make me a little nervous," said Jennifer Wood, 36, as she took her young son for a walk. "It seems a little in the face, a little too much too soon. I don't know why it has to be here -- this is a big city."

Says it all really. If the muslims had an ounce of decency they would look for a place for their mosque elsewhere - it's a big city!

♂

Jul 30, 10, 23:30 #16

Except for masochists, survival is the name of the game in all circumstances. Even in the dire straits of Auschwitz, when death could occur at any moment, life developed. People fell in and out of love, engaged in a crude form of trade -- the onyl kidn possible int aht situaiton -- plotted ways to get extra food or even escape. The Jews who collabroated with the Soviets in Jedwabne after 1939 and the Poles who collaborated with the Germans after mid-1941 did not do so becuase they thought they'd be punished for it at a later date. They perceived that as being in their immediate self-interest.

aphrodisiacThreads: 22 Posts: 3,998 Joined: Apr 15, 09 ♀	Jul 30, 10, 23:30 #17
Bratwurst Boy: Says it all really. If the muslims had an ounce of decency they would look for a place for their mosque elsewhere - it's a big city! I don't see what the big deal is. Anyways, I bet it will be stopped somehow. Why would those people who have nothing to do with 9/11 suffer the consequences. For me it is a case of quilt by association.

♂

Edited by: jonni Jul 31, 10, 00:27 #18

A J:

I doubt that's what you'll tell yourself when you're the one who's about to end up homeless.

Again normal, unless you have communism, which in any case differs in practice and theory...

A J:

I've gathered that much. Just remember that you can only preach to your own followers, and it shouldn't be a mystery to you that most people usually stop following as soon as they're starting to lose everything.

With globalisation, more people will have a chance to get on - at least in the developing world. Interesting times ahead.

A J:

It means a lot of young people will have no future, and will have to work for little to nothing

And how many 'young people' have a great future now? And a hundred years ago?

Bratwurst Boy:

Says it all really. If the muslims had an ounce of decency they would look for a place for their mosque elsewhere - it's a big city!

Quite. And the mosque in question has been on that street a long long time. To force them to move would be tacky to say the least. There's a German restaurant on ul Mokotowska, scene of massacres by Germans during the Warsaw uprising and another in pl. Bankowy, in sight of the old ghetto gates - perhaps they should move out of their premises as you suggested the mosque do?

♂

Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Jul 31, 10, 00:51 #19

aphrodisiac:

Why would those people who have nothing to do with 9/11 suffer the consequences. For me it is a case of quilt by association.

Can Germans build a tennis parcour in Buchenwald? Or an amusement park in Ravensbrück?
We have nothing to do with it either...

jonni:

There's a German restaurant on ul Mokotowska, scene of massacres by Germans during the Warsaw uprising and another in pl. Bankowy, in sight of the old ghetto gates - perhaps they should move out of their premises as you suggested the mosque do?

It doesn't seem to disturb anybody...wonder why? Is it well visited?

aphrodisiacThreads: 22 Posts: 3,998 Joined: Apr 15, 09 ♀	Jul 31, 10, 00:55 #20
Bratwurst Boy: Can Germans build a tennis parcour in Buchenwald? Or an amusement park in Ravensbrück? We have nothing to do with it either... it is not the same.

jonniThreads: 26 Posts: 4,181 Joined: Nov 27, 07 ♂	Jul 31, 10, 01:01 #21
Bratwurst Boy: It doesn't seem to disturb anybody...wonder why? Is it well visited? Both have caused controversy in their time, and are very much expat places.

NorthMancPolakThreads: 6 Posts: 708 Joined: Jun 13, 10 ♂	Jul 31, 10, 01:03 #22
Seanus: Tis a joy to be a goy :) Strength Through Goy? lol :) I still can't believe that there's so many anti-Semitism/Jewish-obsessed threads on here. I live in a comparatively small area, in which most of our region's 35000 Jews reside; this is probably more than in the whole of Poland. Yet all these Poles on here seem to have this huge fear of "the Jew". It makes no sense! :D

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Jul 31, 10, 08:35 #23
The same. Most of them come through plastic Poles who are out of touch with the Jewish question in Poland now. Frankly, Jews just aren't discussed amongst all the Poles I know here.

♂

Aug 2, 10, 21:31 #24

Seanus:

The same. Most of them come through plastic Poles who are out of touch with the Jewish question in Poland now.

That's most likely it. I doubt if the average Pole would even be able to recognise a Jew these days (if not dressed in an Orthodox style).

Seanus:

Frankly, Jews just aren't discussed amongst all the Poles I know here.

And when they are, in my experience at least, it's mostly positive or simply neutral.
I've never met anyone Polish who ever had anything good to say about Muslims though.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Aug 2, 10, 21:36 #25
Exactly right! They just don't come into discussions.

Polonius3Threads: 1,005 Posts: 4,834 Joined: Apr 11, 08 ♂	Aug 2, 10, 21:52 #26
Poles are not afraid of a few Jews, but they hate being constantly bashed by the Jeiwsh-controlled media from the NYT to Michnik's rag.

NorthMancPolakThreads: 6 Posts: 708 Joined: Jun 13, 10 ♂	Aug 2, 10, 22:11 #27
Grrr, all this "Jew media" crap which Poles come out with really makes me want to convert to Judaism sometimes, so that when I walk past a group of boneheaded Poles and they make some "zasra*y Żyd" comment, thinking that I won't understand, they may be shocked to hear me respond in perfect Polish... just before I punch them out :D

♂

Edited by: A J Aug 2, 10, 22:37 #28

jonni:

Again normal, unless you have communism, which in any case differs in practice and theory...

Just a bit of social awareness and common sense works for me really.

;)

jonni:

With globalisation, more people will have a chance to get on - at least in the developing world. Interesting times ahead.

I'm all for chances for developing world. But! If you know you're poor, and if you know you can't offer your unborn child a decent life just yet, then you should do something about that first. You can blame our ancestors for a lot of things, but it's not our responsibility to provide houses for Africans in Europe. It just isn't. Truth is, a lot of African men refuse to do something useful with their lives and keep walking from one woman to another, without taking any kind of responsibility. I've seen the Townships, and I've asked people a lot of questions, so there's no point in trying to deny this.

jonni:

And how many 'young people' have a great future now? And a hundred years ago?

Not many, which is exactly why some people need to ask themselves if they can offer their unborn child a future, before they actually have their accidents. I fail to see how mass immigration and mixing will solve this problem. Not to mention all the friction and violence between certain cultures. My philosophy is that when you can't help yourself, then you can't help someone else either.

:)

♂

Aug 2, 10, 22:46 #29

A J:

Just a bit of social awareness and common sense works for me really.

Me too - but half the world ain't got is - just look at some of the doylans on here!

A J:

Truth is, a lot of African men refuse to do something useful with their lives and keep walking from one woman to another, without taking any kind of responsibility. I've seen the Townships, and I've asked people a lot of questions, so there's no point trying to deny this.

In the slums of Europe too. So many people just live for today - European poor people are just that bit luckier.

A J:

I fail to see how mass immigration and mixing will solve this problem.

And how would a lack of it solve anything?

Bratwurst Boy:

No, it doesn't look like it...We started out looking rather identically but we evolved. Nature means diversity, not uniformity!

And now nature has intercontinental travel and internet dating to help her along.

♂

Edited by: A J Aug 2, 10, 23:12 #30

jonni:

Me too - but half the world ain't got is - just look at some of the doylans on here!

I don't know everyone who posts here personally.

jonni:

In the slums of Europe too. So many people just live for today - European poor people are just that bit luckier.

A lot of poor people could die of loneliness though, a lot of poor people feel humiliated and isolated most of the time. It's easy to say they're lucky compared to other parts of the world, but you don't have to experience all the stress, all the frustration, all the violence and all the crime.

jonni:

And how would a lack of it solve anything?

We currently have 3.359.603 immigrants living in all of Holland, out of a total population of 16.574.989 people. Those are all the immigrants who settled down permanently. I live in North Holland. 80.000 Polish people work here, in my region alone. (And they're here on a temporary basis, so they don't actually belong to the group of immigrants who settled here permanently.) People tell me and many other Dutch guys that there's no work for us, and now we have waiting lists of ten years or even longer for apartments in larger cities. That's when you know you have enough immigrants.

;)

jonni:

And now nature has intercontinental travel and internet dating to help her along.

Not entirely true, because when I want to emigrate to Canada, Australia or America for example, I have to be either wealthy or highly educated in order to be able to obtain a Green Card. I mean, there has to be some sort of demand for my profession or qualities, right? It certainly makes you wonder how some uneducated immigrants are obviously able to obtain a Green Card, doesn't it?

;)

POLAND . The Unofficial Guide	Unanswered \| Archives
POLAND . The Unofficial Guide	Poland Now and Then	Witamy, Guest \| PF Members \| Gold Members

Home \| Unanswered \| Archives \| Random \| Statistics	Time in Poland: 18:46 / May 26
About Us \| Contact Us \| Rules, Privacy \| Poland Advertising	© 2005-12 PolishForums.com