Should visitors to Auschwitz pay an entrance fee?

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Apr 30, 10, 05:38 #1

after 7 decades of exposure to the elements, auschwitz is crumbling and much of it is deemed unsafe for visitors

ongoing conservation efforts are being made to try and preserve the camp's disintegrating infrastructure but is this the way forward or should we allow the site to be slowly reclaimed by nature

if we are to continue its preservation who is to fund this?

poland has for many years provided the vast majority of funding for auschwitz but many believe, understandably, that this responsibility should fall to germany

others are arguing that visitors should pay an entrance fee and that this money should be used for the memorial’s upkeep

what are your thoughts?

plk123Threads: 30 Posts: 6,410 Joined: Aug 29, 07 ♂	Apr 30, 10, 06:46 #2
why shouldn't israel pay?

1jolaThreads: 33 Posts: 2,739 Joined: Sep 23, 08 ♂	Apr 30, 10, 07:06 #3
90% of costs for this particular museum are covered by Polish taxpayers, but recently, answering the appeal to the international community several nations have answered. From memory: Germany, Sweden, and UK.

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Apr 30, 10, 07:09 #4

plk123:

why shouldn't israel pay?

Would you make a raped woman pay for her rape kit tests too? Although many nationalities were killed there the majority were of the Jewish faith. Don't know who should be paying for this but it sure isn't Israel, nor should it be Poland. I guess either Germany or some kind of UN fund should take care of it.

...or maybe each time a journalist writes about the "Polish concentration camp" his/her newspaper should be assessed a fine and that money should go to the maintenance of the camp. Those fines alone would pay for the camps maintenance for generation to come... (sarcasm smiley if I had one)

1jolaThreads: 33 Posts: 2,739 Joined: Sep 23, 08 ♂	Apr 30, 10, 07:13 #5
skysoulmate: Don't know who should be paying for this but it sure isn't Israel Yet cemetaries need upkeeping, no?

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Edited by: ItsAllAboutME Apr 30, 10, 07:17 #6

skysoulmate

well, a lot of museums and memorials where I live have free admission, but they also ask for voluntary donations. I think a lot of Jewish people would donate money to see the place where so many of their fellow people suffered died is kept up and in good repair, don't you?

it's sad that people still think of Auschwitz in terms of costs and politics, and I'm sure there are other items in the Polish national budget where way more money is spent wastefully and nobody cares. I don't think Auschwitz is going to be the one thing that makes Poland go bankrupt, but if foreigners, Jews or otherwise, would be willing to donate money, I say we take it and use it for the intended purpose.

1jolaThreads: 33 Posts: 2,739 Joined: Sep 23, 08 ♂	Apr 30, 10, 07:20 #7
ItsAllAboutME: well, a lot of museums and memorials where I live have free admission Are Holocaust museums free where you live?

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Edited by: skysoulmate Apr 30, 10, 07:22 #8

1jola:

Yet cemetaries need upkeeping, no?

---

ItsAllAboutME:

skysoulmate

well, a lot of museums and memorials where I live have free admission, but they also ask for voluntary donations. I think a lot of Jewish people would donate money to see the place where so many of their fellow people suffered died is kept up and in good repair, don't you?

it's sad that people still think of Auschwitz in terms of costs and politics, and I'm sure there are other items in the Polish national budget where way more money is spent wastefully and nobody cares. I don't think Auschwitz is going to be the one thing that makes Poland go bankrupt, but if foreigners, Jews or otherwise, would be willing to donate money, I say we take it and use it for the intended purpose.

All good points and as I said I don't know the answer but to single out Israel to pay for it simply because most of the victims were Jewish seems wrong.

Ideally all nations who lost their citizens there along with Germany should pay for it collectively as a sign of a new beginning.

Also, each time a neo-Nazi gets convicted for a hate crime an additional monetary fine should be assessed for him/her to pay toward the maintenance of all former concentration camps.

1jolaThreads: 33 Posts: 2,739 Joined: Sep 23, 08 ♂	Apr 30, 10, 07:45 #9
There are Holocaust museums popping up like mushrooms, and there seems to be always money for that. KL Auschwitz is the main museum and there is no interest from the Jewish side, yet they are very vocal what should be there.

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Edited by: plk123 Apr 30, 10, 07:59 #10

skysoulmate:

Ideally all nations who lost their citizens there

what about that rape kit??? hmmm

the jews always want to dictate what should be done about AB so let them put their money where their mouth is.. like others said, they have no problems coming up with the dough for the many holocaust museums.. and as you said, poles died there too but they are hardly ever included in holocaust memorials.. hmmm

i'm ok with an entry fee, however or maybe even letting the nature take its course..

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Edited by: skysoulmate Apr 30, 10, 08:13 #11

plk123:

what about that rape kit??? hmmm

the jews always want to dictate what should be done about AB so let them put their money where their mouth is.. like others said, they have no problems coming up with the dough for the many holocaust museums.. and as you said, poles died there too but they are hardly ever included in holocaust memorials.. hmmm

i'm ok with an entry fee, however or maybe even letting the nature take its course..

Have you ever been to the Holocaust museum in Washington, DC? I have and can tell you Poland is indeed included in that memorial and in a very tasteful, one could say pro-Polish way (talks about the many Poles who died saving the Jews, etc.)

I was raised in Sweden so I'm very proud of the fact the museum is located on Raoul Wallenberg Street (or Place?) in Washington, DC. Named after a Swede who saved many Jews in Hungary (where he was a diplomat) despite the prevailing anti-Jewish racism in Sweden at a time. Many Swedes sympathized with the Nazis not because of the ideology but because they helped Finland to defend themselves from the Soviet invasion.

Today, lots of people let their anti-Israeli feelings excuse their anti-Jewish racism. That was my main point.

skysoulmateThreads: 41 Posts: 3,039 Joined: Jan 10, 10 ♂	Edited by: skysoulmate Apr 30, 10, 08:46 #12
Something else - This thread does NOT belong in the Travel & Tourism section, we're not talking about the Eiffel tower or the Trafalgar Square, we're talking a place where a mass murder took place. That's actually insulting to all the victims. It should be in the History section.

1jolaThreads: 33 Posts: 2,739 Joined: Sep 23, 08 ♂	Apr 30, 10, 08:46 #13
WTF?! In today's Telegraph: During the war, Ida Grinspan, now 79, was deported to the Polish death camp in 1944 but was one of the few survivors to make it back to France. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/7652641/French -Jewish-grandmother-banned-from-telling-school-gendarmes-handed-her-ov er-to-Nazis.html

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Edited by: skysoulmate Apr 30, 10, 08:49 #14

1jola:

WTF?!

In today's Telegraph:

During the war, Ida Grinspan, now 79, was deported to the Polish death camp in 1944 but was one of the few survivors to make it back to France.

That was my point - this racism and denial still exists in many countries... "Others committed those crimes but NOT us..."

"...She wrote a letter about her wartime experiences to children at a school in Parthenay, western France.

But when the town's deputy mayor, Michel Birault, a former policeman, found out she was to tell the children it was "gendarmes" who arrested her aged 14, it was censored..."

1jolaThreads: 33 Posts: 2,739 Joined: Sep 23, 08 ♂	Edited by: 1jola Apr 30, 10, 08:54 #15
Yes, but my immediate focus falls on newspapers which with total impunity publish the Polish death camp lie. Our official reaction to these is too weak. They should sue once and it would stop.

plk123Threads: 30 Posts: 6,410 Joined: Aug 29, 07 ♂	Apr 30, 10, 09:01 #16
skysoulmate: This thread does NOT belong in the Travel & Tourism section, yes it does.. the thread is about visiting the site, and whether one should pay to see it and not the history of it.

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Apr 30, 10, 09:38 #17

1jola:

answering the appeal to the international community several nations have answered. From memory: Germany, Sweden, and UK.

*cries about Norway being ignored*
Why remember Sweden?! WHY?! :((

1jola:

During the war, Ida Grinspan, now 79, was deported to the Polish death camp in 1944 but was one of the few survivors to make it back to France.

Wow they used a HUUUGE letter how refreshing!
*Stay optimistic, stay optimistic, stay optimistic and stay optimistic*

BubbaWooThreads: 46 Posts: 4,438 Joined: Sep 26, 06 ♂	Apr 30, 10, 09:43 #18
skysoulmate: This thread does NOT belong in the Travel & Tourism section as uncomfortable as it might make you feel, auschwitz is poland's leading tourist site

1jolaThreads: 33 Posts: 2,739 Joined: Sep 23, 08 ♂	Apr 30, 10, 09:44 #19
Memory fails, but yes Norway: http://blog.norway.com/2009/06/24/norway-offers-aid-for-auschwitz-upke ep/

Mr GrunwaldThreads: 34 Posts: 2,354 Joined: Dec 16, 08 ♂	Apr 30, 10, 09:50 #20
1jola: Memory fails, but yes Norway: Ahh thank you for the link <3

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,160 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Apr 30, 10, 10:19 #21
No, money should not be involved here. It is in the collective interest of humanity to see what happened or have the picture painted. Coffers don't need to be lined at all. The tour guide should be paid as it's their profession and they put time and effort into getting their info straight and in presenting it.

skysoulmateThreads: 41 Posts: 3,039 Joined: Jan 10, 10 ♂	Apr 30, 10, 15:20 #22
Seanus: No, money should not be involved here. It is in the collective interest of humanity to see what happened or have the picture painted. Coffers don't need to be lined at all. The tour guide should be paid as it's their profession and they put time and effort into getting their info straight and in presenting it. Well, I agree with the first part but how should the maintenance be paid for?

z_dariusThreads: 22 Posts: 5,091 Joined: Oct 18, 07 ♂	Apr 30, 10, 15:37 #23
skysoulmate: Well, I agree with the first part but how should the maintenance be paid for? Perhaps Bank of England could take over the maintenance costs. After all they helped Hitler come to power, financed his military and benefited from the gold and other valuables looted from the victims.

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Edited by: skysoulmate Apr 30, 10, 15:43 #24

z_darius:

Perhaps Bank of England could take over the maintenance costs. After all they helped Hitler come to power, financed his military and benefited from the gold and other valuables looted from the victims.

Well, using that analogy Russia (and Germany) should pay too since Nazi-Germany in cohesion with the Soviet Union invaded Poland and thus they both started WWII? See the point you're trying to make but a realistic suggestion maybe?

WroclawThreads: 74 Posts: 7,276 Joined: Apr 1, 06 ♂ [Moderator]	Apr 30, 10, 15:45 #25
''was deported to the German death camp in 1944 but was one of the few survivors to make it back to France.'' (telegraph, today.) 1jola: During the war, Ida Grinspan, now 79, was deported to the Polish death camp in 1944 but was one of the few survivors to make it back to France. The telegraph seem to have put right their mistake.

skysoulmateThreads: 41 Posts: 3,039 Joined: Jan 10, 10 ♂	Apr 30, 10, 15:46 #26
Wroclaw: The telegraph seem to have put right their mistake. Awesome, the fine is cancelled. ;)

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Edited by: MareGaea Apr 30, 10, 16:06 #27

I would agree to an entrance fee. After all, Auschwitz rises above Poland and the rest of the world as a monument and testimony of how cruel mankind can actually be. I have no problem as such to pay a tenner (Euro that is) to get in as long as the money is well spent on maintaining the buildings and, if pssble, improving documentation for visitors, paying the guides, etc. I don't think the Polish taxpayers should pay for this; after all, it's not their fault that Auschwitz is on Polish territory. So yes, good idea. Only objection could pssbly be that it should be accessible for everybody (a bit like the UK and Irish museums) in order to grasp a bit of history and "cultural" inheritance. But in that case, I think it should be jointly paid by all the members of the EU.

>^..^<

M-G (maybe introduce an entrance fee for all the former KZs?)

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Apr 30, 10, 16:13 #28

I'd very much support the idea of a suggested minimum donation (with people being given a free ticket if they ask for one).

The museum at Sobibor is paid entry but the parking is free. The museum at Belzec is free but you have to pay for the parking.

z_darius:

Perhaps Bank of England could take over the maintenance costs. After all they helped Hitler come to power, financed his military and benefited from the gold and other valuables looted from the victims.

I never thought I'd see somebody so Polish that they even applied the Polish logic of "Blame the Jews. If you can't blame the Jew, blame the British" to the extent that they even blame the British for Auschwitz. But then I suppose you have to try harder, given that you aren't actually Polish.

Lyzko

Apr 30, 10, 16:16 #29

Problem is, folks, Auschwitz is NOT just any other ordinary "memorial" site, but rather the place of eternal witness for the most unspeakable crime in history.

Think Polish tax revenues can (not so) gently take a back seat to basic values, whilst the Poles and other gentiles decry us Jews as putting profits before people-:))

Seems a bit hypocritical now, not to mention a trifle obscene, doesn't it?

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Apr 30, 10, 16:18 #30

Harry:

Blame the Jews

Unfortunately there will always be ppl like that, Harry. These ppl are generally not happy with themselves and try to defer attention of this by shouting at other groups. I personally think that Auschwitz and the likes have not so much to do with Jews alone, but with all mankind. First of all because it weren't only Jews that were killed there, but also all kinds of other ppl. Auschwitz is (or at least should be) a monument for all mankind. And if they need money to maintain it, I have no problem paying a fee to get in.

>^..^<

M-G (but enjoy, today is Queensday and everybody is Dutch today:) )

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