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Why does the idea of a "Slavic Union" seem so popular on this site?


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Joined: Jun 20, 11 ♂ [Suspended] 		 Jun 21, 11, 00:21    #1
I must say, I've never met any Poles or Polish-Americans in real life that possess this view. So the idea of a "Slavic Union" seems strange. I've read several posts by PF members who are very adamant about it (such as Crow). I find it interesting that you folks are so keen on building a union around a language group...
ShortHairThugThreads: -
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Rebirth:
building a union around a language group...

Are you for real? That’s all it is in your opinion? A language group? LOL
Des EssientesThreads: 11
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Joined: Feb 6, 10  Pictures: 4 ♂ [Suspended] 		 Jun 21, 11, 00:25    #3
Rebirth:
I find it interesting that you folks are so keen on building a union around a language group...

I am in favor of an even greater union based on a language group that would be called the Satum Union. It would comprise not only all the Slavic countries but also Iran, Afganistan, Tadjikistan, Ossetia, Armenia, Pakistan, and India.
delphiandomineThreads: 42
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Joined: Nov 25, 08 ♂ [Suspended] 		 Jun 21, 11, 00:27    #4
ShortHairThug:
Are you for real? That’s all it is in your opinion? A language group? LOL


That's all it is.

Do you see much in common with Sorbs and Poles, for instance?
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Joined: Jun 20, 11 ♂ [Suspended] 		 Jun 21, 11, 00:29    #5
ShortHairThug:
Are you for real? That’s all it is in your opinion? A language group? LOL


It's a lingoethnic group. Some Slavs might date back to the early Slavic tribes but certainly not all.
Des EssientesThreads: 11
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Joined: Feb 6, 10  Pictures: 4 ♂ [Suspended] 		 Jun 21, 11, 00:30    #6
delphiandomine:
That's all it is.

Denying the common ancestry, and the shared cultural affinities, of the Slavs is what douchebags do.
ShortHairThugThreads: -
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Joined: May 1, 09 ♂ 		 Jun 21, 11, 00:31    #7
delphiandomine:
Do you see much in common with Sorbs and Poles, for instance?

Much more than any other western culture, if you read just some of the things Crow posted here on PF over the years you would know that.
SokratesThreads: 19
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Joined: Jan 19, 09 ♂ [Suspended] 		 Jun 21, 11, 00:31    #8
Rebirth:
It's a lingoethnic group. Some Slavs might date back to the early Slavic tribes but certainly not all.

Yes all, thats what makes them Slavs.
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Sokrates:
Yes all, thats what makes them Slavs.


Nope, not all.
delphiandomineThreads: 42
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Joined: Nov 25, 08 ♂ [Suspended] 		Edited by: delphiandomine  Jun 21, 11, 00:35    #10
Des Essientes:
Denying the common ancestry, and the shared cultural affinities, of the Slavs is what douchebags do.


Haahaa.

You really do know absolutely nothing about Poland if you think that there's any support for "common ancestry" among Slavs. Perhaps pan-Slavic (usually Russians, who want their old influence back) types might support such theories, but every other ordinary Slav would be at pains to point out their separate ancestry.

As for "shared cultural affinities" - again, that's an American viewpoint. Those of us actually living here can tell the differences between Polish and other Slavic culture.

Typical non-educated polaczek comment.
SokratesThreads: 19
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Joined: Jan 19, 09 ♂ [Suspended] 		Edited by: Sokrates  Jun 21, 11, 00:35    #11
Rebirth:
Nope, not all.

So which Slavs are the ones who according to you do not share the common "lingoethnic" ancestry?
delphiandomine:
You really do know absolutely nothing about Poland if you think that there's any support for "common ancestry" among Slavs.

Common ancestry is not supported because its not a theory, its a scientific and antropologic fact and as such it is acknowledged.

If you meant there's no support for Panslavism, you're correct there's none but Panslavism says all Slavs should unite based on their ethnicity, that there is a common ethnic background to Slavs is a fact, the issue is what to do with it, majority of Poles think - nothing.
delphiandomine:
As for "shared cultural affinities" - again, that's an American viewpoint. Those of us actually living here can tell the differences between Polish and other Slavic culture.

Which does not change the fact that there are shared cultural affinities between all Slavis peoples.
delphiandomineThreads: 42
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Joined: Nov 25, 08 ♂ [Suspended] 		Edited by: delphiandomine  Jun 21, 11, 00:38    #12
Sokrates:
Common ancestry is not supported because its not a theory, its a scientific and antropologic fact and as such it is acknowledged.


Wrong.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavic_peoples#Genetics

Which does not change the fact that there are shared cultural affinities between all Slavis peoples.

They're shared as much as Anglo-Dutch affinities are.
SokratesThreads: 19
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Joined: Jan 19, 09 ♂ [Suspended] 		Edited by: Sokrates  Jun 21, 11, 00:41    #13
The article you posted actually proves that quoting: According to eastern homeland theory, prior to becoming known to the Roman world, Slavic speaking tribes were part of the many multi-ethnic confederacies of Eurasia - such as the Sarmatian, Hun and Gothic empires

All Slavs share a common heritage.

According to the authors most Slavic populations have similar Y chromosome pools — R1a. They speculate that this similarity can be traced to an origin in the middle Dnieper basin of Ukraine during the Late Glacial Maximum 15 kya.[29]


Another quote.

Stop humiliating yourself posting articles that prove my point:)
delphiandomine:
They're shared as much as Anglo-Dutch affinities are.

Quite a bit more i'm afraid :) Linguistic similarities, cuisine, music, there's much much more in common between say Poles, Slovaks and Russians then between French, British and Dutch.
delphiandomineThreads: 42
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Joined: Nov 25, 08 ♂ [Suspended] 		Edited by: delphiandomine  Jun 21, 11, 00:44    #14
Sokrates:
According to eastern homeland theory, prior to becoming known to the Roman world, Slavic speaking tribes were part of the many multi-ethnic confederacies of Eurasia - such as the Sarmatian, Hun and Gothic empires


"according to the eastern homeland theory".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_Slavs#Ethnogenesis

Seems to me that common ancestry is by no means proven - as can be seen by the total inability to determie where they came from.
SokratesThreads: 19
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Joined: Jan 19, 09 ♂ [Suspended] 		 Jun 21, 11, 00:46    #15
delphiandomine:
"according to the eastern homeland theory".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_Slavs#Ethnogenesis

Seems to me that common ancestry is by no means proven.

I just quoted the article you poted:
According to the authors most Slavic populations have similar Y chromosome pools — R1a. They speculate that this similarity can be traced to an origin in the middle Dnieper basin of Ukraine during the Late Glacial Maximum 15 kya.[29]


You can't argue with genes, the common ancestry is proven and the fact that you dont like it doesnt change the fact that you were idiot enough to post something that disproves your opinion:))))
delphiandomineThreads: 42
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Joined: Nov 25, 08 ♂ [Suspended] 		 Jun 21, 11, 00:47    #16
Sokrates:
According to the authors most Slavic populations have similar Y chromosome pools — R1a. They speculate that this similarity can be traced to an origin in the middle Dnieper basin of Ukraine during the Late Glacial Maximum 15 kya.[29]


Most Slavic populations - therefore, not all Slavs have the same.
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Sokrates:
All Slavs share a common heritage.


Yes, a cultural and linguistic heritage...

Sokrates:
According to the authors most Slavic populations have similar Y chromosome pools — R1a.


R1a is not exclusive to Slavic countries.
SokratesThreads: 19
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Rebirth:
R1a is not exclusive to Slavic countries.

No but when its present in an ethnic group it decisively proves a common ancestry:)))
delphiandomine:
Most Slavic populations - therefore, not all Slavs have the same.

Of course they're not f*cking clones:))) But they do share a common ancestry.
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Joined: Jun 20, 11 ♂ [Suspended] 		 Jun 21, 11, 00:52    #19
Sokrates:
So which Slavs are the ones who according to you do not share the common "lingoethnic" ancestry?


If a Pole doesn't date back to the early Slavic tribes, that doesn't mean he/she is not Slavic.

Sokrates:
No but when its present in an ethnic group it decisively proves a common ancestry:)))


Not necessarily. Also, according to modern science, we all have a common ancestry in Africa. :-)
Des EssientesThreads: 11
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Joined: Feb 6, 10  Pictures: 4 ♂ [Suspended] 		 Jun 21, 11, 00:54    #20
Rebirth:
If a Pole doesn't date back to the early Slavic tribes, that doesn't mean he/she is not Slavic.

That doesn't answer Socrates' question.
SokratesThreads: 19
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Joined: Jan 19, 09 ♂ [Suspended] 		 Jun 21, 11, 00:54    #21
Rebirth:
If a Pole doesn't date back to the early Slavic tribes, that doesn't mean he/she is not Slavic.

All ethnic Slavs date back to the early Slavic tribes, thats what makes them Slavs, if a Pole doesnt date back to the early Slavic tribes via his geenes he's not a Slav.
Rebirth:
Not necessarily. Also, according to modern science, we all have a common ancestry in Africa. :-)

Yes neccesarily thats how genetic mapping works in antropology, thats also how we suppose we came from Africa.
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Joined: Jun 20, 11 ♂ [Suspended] 		 Jun 21, 11, 00:55    #22
Des Essientes:
That doesn't answer Socrates' question.


So he wants me to name specific Slavs?
SokratesThreads: 19
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Joined: Jan 19, 09 ♂ [Suspended] 		Edited by: Sokrates  Jun 21, 11, 00:56    #23
delphiandomine:
Clearly, English isn't your first language, otherwise you'd know that "most" means "not all".

Yes all, thats why all of them have the specific common genes straight from the article you posted :)))))

Piece of advice Dolphin, read the stuff you post it helps avoid humiliation when a nosy bugger like me who actually does read what he's given catches you on a massive blooper like that :)))
delphiandomineThreads: 42
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Joined: Nov 25, 08 ♂ [Suspended] 		 Jun 21, 11, 01:00    #24
Sokrates:
All ethnic Slavs date back to the early Slavic tribes, thats what makes them Slavs, if a Pole doesnt date back to the early Slavic tribes via his geenes he's not a Slav.


What percentage of Poles do date back to those times?
RebirthThreads: 7
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Joined: Jun 20, 11 ♂ [Suspended] 		 Jun 21, 11, 01:01    #25
Sokrates:
All ethnic Slavs date back to the early Slavic tribes, thats what makes them Slavs, if a Pole doesnt date back to the early Slavic tribes via his geenes he's not a Slav.


I didn't know that definition of Slav was set in stone officially.

Sokrates:
Yes neccesarily thats how genetic mapping works in antropology


Anthropologists do not state that two people with R1a must be part of the same ethnic group.
SokratesThreads: 19
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Joined: Jan 19, 09 ♂ [Suspended] 		Edited by: Moderator  Jun 21, 11, 01:03    #26
delphiandomine:
What percentage of Poles do date back to those times?

Genetically, i imagine some 95-99% WW2 took care of that.
Rebirth:
I didn't know that definition of Slav was set in stone officially.

The Slavic people are an ethnic and linguistic branch of Indo-European peoples, living mainly in Eastern Europe and Central Europe.
Rebirth:
Anthropologists do not state that two people with R1a must be part of the same ethnic group.

If the combination appears in the correct recurring order, yes they do.

See how many things you learned tonight?:))))
delphiandomineThreads: 42
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Joined: Nov 25, 08 ♂ [Suspended] 		 Jun 21, 11, 01:07    #27
Sokrates:
Genetically, i imagine some 95-99% WW2 took care of that.


Worth a read - http://polishgenes.blogspot.com/

Some interesting stuff there.
SokratesThreads: 19
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Joined: Jan 19, 09 ♂ [Suspended] 		 Jun 21, 11, 01:09    #28
Rebirth:
I'm uneducated? LOL ethnic does not mean you need a genetic commonality special ed dork.

It does not change the fact that Slavs do enjoy a genetic common root:))))
A JThreads: 19
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Joined: May 21, 10 ♂ 		 Jun 21, 11, 01:13    #29
Sokrates:
It does not change the fact that Slavs do enjoy a genetic common root:))))


Just like every other human being.

;)
SokratesThreads: 19
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Joined: Jan 19, 09 ♂ [Suspended] 		 Jun 21, 11, 01:16    #30
A J:
Just like every other human being.

To a point, yes.

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