Tuchola - roots of Katyn?

IronsideThreads: 59 Posts: 6,786 Joined: Feb 26, 09 ♂	Feb 24, 11, 01:26 #211
Sasha: Had you knew one, Gee again the same - people we are discussing about civilisations, cultures and general trends, not a individual dastards ! I knew a few Russian, **** you are like fuzz, cause he didn't like a massage he attacked the messenger - yes fuzz I know a few Americans, so what ?

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Feb 24, 11, 06:55 #212

ConstantineK:

one simple truth that all reforms in such state like Russia need to pass several stages:

1. Government should realize that something is wrong
2. They should discern what is wrong specifically
3. They should formulate the idea of reform
4. THey should surge this idea into society
5. This idea should be discussed within the social groups
6. It should be adopted
7. and then carried out

Damn, it is a long, long way to get some decent reforms. I bet billioners on the top will be able to "discern what is wrong specifically" ;) I agree with Sasha here - "srannaja intelligencia" is more people of your caliber who got a cozy job sucking to some bureaucratic lackey and don't giving a sh*t of what is happening to the rest 90% of the population. I hope Russia will have some revolution some day which will bring democracy to its people. I have the same hope towards my coutry too.

ConstantineK:

Soviet Union had given you both education and opportunity to be scientists, poets or artists

Name me one country in Europe where there is no opportunity to become a scientist, an artist or a poet. Soviet Union sent Ukrainian artists and poets to Siberia, many of them were tortured and killed in prisons. Scientists were advanced only in the fields of rocket-building while medicine was on the level which makes one cry even to recall. Many people who graduated in the Soviet Union had no perspectives with their knowledge in the outside world because it was not competitive. That limited knowledge was worth something in the dump-hole which was called Soviet Union, but nowhere else.

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Edited by: ConstantineK Mar 4, 11, 20:52 #213

Nathan:

Damn, it is a long, long way to get some decent reforms.

And what do you want? Reforming big country requires patience and perseverance but the result will be amazing!

Nathan:

I agree with Sasha here - "srannaja intelligencia" is more people of your caliber who got a cozy job sucking to some bureaucratic lackey and

I like Sasha (for he is Russian and he is Sa-a-a-asha-a-a), but certainly he is not "founder of Marxism-Leninism" and, therefore, his "new reading" of Lenin's words cannot be valued higher than the sense Lenin himself put in term "sranaya intelligencia".

Let me give you brief lesson from "Short History of VKPb", for it seems to me I should complete your education. Apparently you were not as good in schooling in your past as your are skillful in painting now. Under the term "sranaya intelligentsiya" he (Lenin) means always reflecting, always dreamy intellectuals in Russia. They have ideas, they have ideals but, alas, always lack guts to resolve. I can only hope that paint roller "artists" IN independent Ukraine still able to read Gogol not in vulgar Surzhik but in pure Russian. Is that so? Well, the character of "Manilov" from his "Dead Souls" is perfect example of such intellectuals.

Nathan:

Soviet Union sent Ukrainian artists and poets to Siberia, many of them were tortured and killed in prisons.

Please tell me whom? Who knows, it might be well happened they were so "talented" that Soviet Union rendered a good service having delivered world civilization and culture from such artists and poets.

Nathan:

Scientists were advanced only in the fields of rocket-building while medicine was on the level which makes one cry even to recall.

Oh! What are you saying, babe? Even in the beginning of XX cent south of Ukraine permanently suffered from manifold cholera eruptions. And what is now? Hope that you are doing well?! However, I dare to conjecture that 20 years of independence ruined most of Soviet advantages on Ukraine.

Nathan:

That limited knowledge was worth something in the dump-hole which was called Soviet Union, but nowhere else.

Apparently "Bandera state" has more advantages. Paint! Paint well dude!

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Edited by: Nathan Mar 5, 11, 05:49 #214

ConstantineK:

Let me give you brief lesson

You may give me a lesson of the Communist ideology of a state which you mentioned in previous posts:

ConstantineK:

ConstantineK: one simple truth that all reforms in such state like Russia need to pass several stages:
1. Government should realize that something is wrong
2. They should discern what is wrong specifically
3. They should formulate the idea of reform
4. THey should surge this idea into society
5. This idea should be discussed within the social groups
6. It should be adopted
7. and then carried out

This is exactly what I mean. How shallow is your understanding of a state! You are willing to live like an ostrich all your life and wait for what others, or as for many Russians "tzar' batiushka", will tell you. It is not how overwhelming majority of the world wants to live. If you don't believe me, look around. Besides Cuba and North Korea (and people there are starving!) there is no one left. Even Chinese government would find your Leninism-Marxism trifle ridiculous. Both scumheads had no knowledge of economics or state-building and brought "sranaya intelligencyja" (I meant your type) to power for 70 years.

ConstantineK:

it might be well happened they were so "talented" that Soviet Union rendered a good service having delivered world civilization and culture from such artists and poets.

This is what I understand is the communism. And I am right. It is when "sranaya svora sobak" tells the rest how to breathe. FU.

MEMBER ♂

Edited by: Havok Mar 5, 11, 07:16 #215

By a rough count 3 million of Russians were killed by their own government back than. Written by a Russian researcher. I'm not saying two negatives make a positive but I think you should put the evil deeds in to a perspective. Think about the mentality of people who been there and lived it. Don't repeat it.

http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/COM.ART.HTM
http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/NOTE1.HTM

http://www.polishforums.com/off-topic-lounge-47/soviet-crimes-against- humanity-49880/

some of this could be used as well

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Jun 1, 11, 20:08 #216

Greetings!
I was just revisting this thread lately,and noticed, it has wandered away from orginal topic some?
Happy to meet your acquaintance ConstantineK!
Upon revewing your posts on Tuchola. I see our only point of agreement would be, on the point of number of lives lost in the Tuchola P.O.W.camps,and Katyn P.O.W.camps.
I think the Tuchola P.O.W. camps,had more in common with the German WWI P.O.W. camps, than Katyn.
My Great Uncle was a soldier in the Russian army during WWI,and was captured and sent to a P.O.W. camp in Germany.
He survived,the lack food,shelter,epidemics rampant in these camps, during the Allied Naval blockade of Germany at the time.
My Great Uncle,was released from the P.O.W. camp to serve as unpaid farm labour. During this he again,survived lack of food,shelter,and something new beatings from his new German "employers".
The most terrifying thing for him, about being outside the wire of a P.O.W. camp. Was avoiding the bands of armed Right Wing/Left Wing Extremists,who looted,summarily executed civilians,including women and children.
When my Great Uncle finally emigrated from Germany,he was glad to leave behind the land of the "Devil".
I am not sure,if,the conditions of Bolshevik P.O.W's in Poland,were worse than German WWI P.O.W. camps? But,I bet the material,medical conditions were similiar.
I don't know,if,there is any great debate of German WWI P.O.W. camp conditions going on today?
The only thing I can see feeding the Tuchola debate today.
Would be geopolitical rivialry still playing itself out in Eastern Europe.
ConstantineK, as far my Grandfather's stories about the Polish-Bolshevik War, being tales to frighten children?
Other Independent eye witness acounts to the events of 1919-1920, validate my Grandfather's recollections
Most notably, the great Soviet writer Issac Babel who served in Buddenny's Cavalry.

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Jun 1, 11, 20:31 #217

Yes, Well there is a reason I hate Germans & Not Russians.

With Germans Poland did nothing to them & even was friendly to them & they paid us Poles back with horror.

Also the Soviet Union was created because Germany sent the Bolsheviks to Russia during WW1 with half Volga German.

With Russia much of the time we Poles actually started the tensions.
Although not always sometimes it was Russians who did.

With Germans it is always them being primitive & starting non sense.

Poles & Russians should both be united against German slime.

NathanThreads: 33 Posts: 1,846 Joined: Feb 13, 09 ♂	Jun 1, 11, 22:47 #218
PolskiMoc: Yes, Well there is a reason I hate Germans & Not Russians PolskiMoc: Poles & Russians should both be united against German slime. Aren't Poles Not-Russians? ;) How do you unite with people you hate?

Zman	Jun 2, 11, 00:03 #219
LOL, Nathan you are so right. PolskiMoc most certainly has his keyboard inside MKAD. Imposter!!!

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Edited by: PolskiMoc Jun 2, 11, 00:17 #220

Nathan:

Aren't Poles Not-Russians? ;) How do you unite with people you hate?

I don't hate Russians.
I donh't get why many Poles seem to often make a bigger deal about Katyn where 40,000 Poles died.

Then Nazi Germany where 3 million Polish were put into Concentration camps, 500,000 Polish Blonde babies kidnapped, up to 10 million Poles enslaved.

You had Plan AB which was maybe even worse than Katyn where Nazis killed our Intellectuals. Like Polish Kazimierz Prószyński who invented the first hand held movie camera who died thanks to German slime in plan AB

With Katyn Georgian Stalin was behind it.

It makes me sick when I hear Poles loving Georgians & hating Russians.

WTF? Georgian Stalin murdered more Poles than Russia ever did. Georgian Stalin murdered much more Russians & Ukrainians sadly.

With the Soviet Union?
Germany sent the Bolsheviks with Lenin to Russia to destroy Russia. Lenin was Half Volga German & Not Russian at all Lenin actually hated Russians.

Even U.S president Woodrow Wilson HELPED create the Bolshevik Revolution with Woodrow Wilson sending JEw Leon Trotsky (Lev Bronstein) to help complete the Bolshevik Revolution

Under the Partitions of Poland Russia was under German Catherine the UNgreat who actually started the most Genocides against Poles during the time period.

Wake the F*ck up. Russians & Poles have suffered together thanks to Non Slavs

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Jun 2, 11, 12:01 #221

PolskiMoc:

It makes me sick when I hear Poles loving Georgians & hating Russians.

I don't know any people who hate Russians (it does not mean nobody Polish hates Russians - my grandpa who was a POW in Russia (was allowed to return home in the winter of 1940( as he lived in the Russian occupation those who lived in the German occupational zone were not ) - he never hated Russians - nor did he hate Germans

I do not love Georgians - I don't even know much about them - I just know if a bully comes to your neighbour we better help him out somehow or the bully comes again next time perhaps to us - united we stand, divided we fall

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Jun 2, 11, 12:05 #222

PolskiMoc:

I donh't get why many Poles seem to often make a bigger deal about Katyn where 40,000 Poles died.

You don't get it, because you're not Polish. You're just a dumb, racist American.

PolskiMoc:

It makes me sick when I hear Poles loving Georgians & hating Russians.

That's fine. You can be as sick as you want, as long as you keep out of our country.

Seriously, child - lay off Stormfront and actually visit Poland. You might have a hope of understanding then.

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Jun 2, 11, 12:06 #223

gumishu:

do not love Georgians - I don't even know much about them

I'm too lazy to read this thread, sorry.
Just thought i'd comment on this quick bit i read.

If you dont know much about about them as you say, then couldn't you begin to find out, or not comment on your dislike about a group of people you have no knowledge on.

There seems so much negativity around and sometimes it;s down to lack of education or knowledge.

gumishuThreads: 17 Posts: 3,943 Joined: Apr 6, 09 ♂	Jun 2, 11, 12:16 #224
stinkybugger: or not comment on your dislike about a group of people you have no knowledge on. I haven't quoted on my dislike towards Georgians - I have a pretty neutral stance towards them - it's been Georgia that has been bullied not Russia

stinkybuggerThreads: - Posts: 84 Joined: Apr 14, 11 ♀	Jun 2, 11, 13:00 #225
gumishu: I haven't quoted on my dislike towards Georgians Well you did say you didn't love them, but technically you didnt say you disliked them either..so i guess.....

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