Ukrainians working in Poland in the 90s

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Edited by: Ksysia Feb 4, 10, 22:20 #1

ok, we have some threads around about Brits complaining about Poles. Some points were raised, and this caught my interest: "if Poland had many work immigrants, Poles would react the same".

First of all, Poland has immigrants.
Most notably they were visible in the 90s. They were are Neighbours, the Ukraininas.

Background: after the thaw we have anjoyed very fast economic growth. Suddenly we started to create companies, jobs, etc. (up until Balcerowicz was broken and betrayed the country, turning it into the sad financially exploited colony it is now). Our currency was wrth more to the Ukrainians, and their growth was not so fast. They started coming. MOstly to do refurbishments and construction. Ukrainian doctors were washing floors in Polish houses.

Question - do you remember anti-Ukrainian riots? No? How odd! Apparently Poland has not got this aggression level.

BUt - I'm sure that on personal level not everything was cool. I know that it isn't due to the history, Polish Panowie and Ukrainian Molodcy. It's not cool due to Ukrainians feeling poor, like my maternal Uncle's Wife, Sveta. They still clean here, like my Paternal Uncle's Warsaw house.

What I am saying is that there are no anti-immigrant riots prevalent in our culture. We were never insular. It's OK to work here. Not that moronic people don't live in Poland, they do. But luckily they don't get to rule.

But I am a little chuffed, why would doctors wash floors? It's OK to ratify your diploma, you know? It probably takes 3 months for the Urząd to do it, but you can.

On the other hand, I have started very low in England as well, until I learned a little about their agencies.

ExiledThreads: 5 Posts: 729 Joined: Jan 17, 10 ♂	Feb 4, 10, 22:42 #2
Ukrainians and Poles are both Slavs so they get along easily.English are not Slavs,they are Germanics and tend to get along with Germanics.That is why there is no anti-dutch or anti-German riot in the UK,nor any anti-polish in Russia.

KsysiaThreads: 39 Posts: 545 Joined: May 6, 09 ♀	Feb 4, 10, 22:51 #3
You reckon? So it's the inherent Germanic Xenophobia again?

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Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Feb 4, 10, 22:56 #4

Ksysia:

Question - do you remember anti-Ukrainian riots? No? How odd!

Nope...possible protestors were elsewhere in Europe....looking for work....;)

Ksysia:

What I am saying is that there are no anti-immigrant riots prevalent in our culture.

When you become an attractive country for would be immigrants and they are beginning to swarm you like Western Europe....we can talk again!

Exiled:

Ukrainians and Poles are both Slavs so they get along easily.

Poles and Russians are both Slavs too....so they get along easily too?

Exiled:

English are not Slavs,they are Germanics and tend to get along with Germanics.

Yeah....two world wars! Beat that love!!!

ExiledThreads: 5 Posts: 729 Joined: Jan 17, 10 ♂	Feb 4, 10, 23:11 #5
Germanic xenophobia?Yes,if you mean you have to live by their laws and they seldom have foreigners as close friends.

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Feb 4, 10, 23:16 #6

Bratwurst Boy:

When you become an attractive country

Typical German. I'm sure you enjoy the compliment.

There is so much German rudeness, stuffiness, slander to take that in any other place on
Earth it would be prohibited by court.

I went to England, am here now, and I tell you, that attractiveness of the West is a myth. No forests, no automatic flushes in the toilets, no plumbing in most houses, sink drains leak out to open canals, cinemas are old, cinema screens are ancient, no food that would have taste apart from beef. The people are not gentlemanly but crass.

The belief in Poland of poor little Poland and poor Poles is created by Germans.

I say we have forests, excellent food like you wish you tasted, kind people, beautiful architecture that you BB have destroyed. Millenia od culture. (the Wojewoda of Poznań was one of the most powerful)

The thing is that to justify your trechery against Poland...

(relax, Brits. no alliance here. but they started a war without declaration, wore our uniforms and denied help to the wounded)

...you compensate with telling youself stories of Polish thieves and horse carts. Crass beyond belief. Horses are part of Polish culture, and the Germans to ridicule horses after taking our fashion of wearing cavalry boots for your army - is just another part of your scheming.

And talk about Poland being poor, when we haven't got the contribution money from you? (I know that Russia took it, but we didn't receive it.)

Tell you a story - in '95 my Father sold a lorry of our product to a German guy named Schroeder. The barbarian thought he didn't have to pay. That's a big problem with German business partners. They steal. We got him through the court

Then they turn around and spread the Goering propaganda about how Poland is inferior.

TheOtherThreads: 4 Posts: 1,438 Joined: Jul 13, 09 ♂	Feb 4, 10, 23:26 #7
Ksysia: The belief in Poland of poor little Poland and poor Poles is created by Germans. Typical Pole. In your words: I'm sure you enjoy the compliment. :)

KsysiaThreads: 39 Posts: 545 Joined: May 6, 09 ♀	Feb 4, 10, 23:29 #8
More proud, I hope! Not so receptive to the Germanic myth of them being cleaner than East, because they were dirtier than the Romans. It really annoys me. As depicted above.

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Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Feb 4, 10, 23:37 #9

Ksysia:

Typical German. I'm sure you enjoy the compliment.

Erm...Kysia?
What did I say wrong???

It's still a fact that more people leave Poland in search of work than the other way around.
The same holds true for most would-be immigrants from the third world...

My error was what exactly?

Ksysia:

Then they turn around and spread the Goering propaganda about how Poland is inferior.

Huh???

Ksysia:

The belief in Poland of poor little Poland and poor Poles is created by Germans.

Wot????

TheOtherThreads: 4 Posts: 1,438 Joined: Jul 13, 09 ♂	Edited by: TheOther Feb 4, 10, 23:39 #10
Ksysia Sweeping generalizations are not very helpful, IMHO.

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Feb 5, 10, 18:57 #11

Okay, Okay, sorry. I'm aggressive, and proud of it.

Sweeping generalizations withdrawn.

My point - go to any country OUTSIDE the circle of mutual adoration calling itself Rich Europe, and Poland is not a poor country. Poor is Nicaragua, BB.

You just refuse to see it and Poles refuse to see it. I feel rich in Poland.

Would you say that Spain, and Iceland, are rich Western countries? Because if you would, you would be working with a myth. Spain offers less jobs and more expensive life, as expressed with food basket. I know. i have friends living there. They went to the Rich Countries, since Poland was so unacceptable, to take matters in their hands. They have not found much...

ExiledThreads: 5 Posts: 729 Joined: Jan 17, 10 ♂	Feb 5, 10, 19:34 #12
Why this obsession with being rich?Mainly you have to be able to fek their asses constantly.Look at Russia.

KsysiaThreads: 39 Posts: 545 Joined: May 6, 09 ♀	Feb 5, 10, 19:37 #13
yes, that's how they do it. Mainly with flashing money. Russia has oil, yes? well, in Russian shops it's hard to buy proper petrol much less engine oil for winter conditions. Some Empire!

ExiledThreads: 5 Posts: 729 Joined: Jan 17, 10 ♂	Feb 5, 10, 19:46 #14
If you have noticed Russians have bought some of the most expensive properties in London where Poles work as cleaners.This creates quite a different perception for the two groups.

KsysiaThreads: 39 Posts: 545 Joined: May 6, 09 ♀	Feb 5, 10, 20:04 #15
And have you noticed to whom the best properties in Chicago belong? It's really had for another reason. That woman who owns Mokate is one of the richest women. She once went to some club meeting in a hotel somewhere in the world, and she was the only one to have come with one bag. It's just Polish.

ExiledThreads: 5 Posts: 729 Joined: Jan 17, 10 ♂	Feb 5, 10, 20:07 #16
You are obsessed with money while Russians value more power.

KsysiaThreads: 39 Posts: 545 Joined: May 6, 09 ♀	Feb 5, 10, 20:59 #17
this is simplistic. do you say that because you've lived there? money is my working theory for wtf we only hear scorn and scorn from Gerries. Either it's money or they hate religion

ExiledThreads: 5 Posts: 729 Joined: Jan 17, 10 ♂	Feb 5, 10, 21:02 #18
Germans are upset for their lost lands probably.

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Edited by: Ksysia Feb 5, 10, 22:20 #19

Well for 200 years those lands have been our lost lands. In reality we got them as means of payment.
Why do you think I keep mentioning the Voivod od Poznań? We were there before Germans. Poznań, Gniezno - those are old roki sites. There were five kingly aces, and the Kind was always travelling between them.
Ostrów Tumski was the prominent religious site, in Wrocław.
in Nysa, there is the coronation church of Władysław IV.

I have no way of feeling for their loss. Shouldn't have taken in the fist place.

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Edited by: convex Feb 6, 10, 02:54 #20

Ksysia:

My point - go to any country OUTSIDE the circle of mutual adoration calling itself Rich Europe, and Poland is not a poor country. Poor is Nicaragua, BB.

Uh everything is relative, Nicaragua looks at the Congo as a poor country. So yea, Poland to about 300 million people is a poor country.

Ksysia:

Russia has oil, yes?
well, in Russian shops it's hard to buy proper petrol much less engine oil for winter conditions.

I didn't notice that. I noticed fairly cheap fuel, modern gas stations, new highways linking major cities (in the northern caucasus and western siberia at least).

Ksysia:

I have no way of feeling for their loss. Shouldn't have taken in the fist place.

How far do you want to go back on that? You want to talk about the tribes in the lands pre-Piast?

The idea of land having eternally belonged to any particular modern nation doesn't make sense.

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Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Feb 6, 10, 04:19 #21

God Kysia, get a grip on your emotions! *backs away slowly*

My comment was about your notion that Poles lack generally the complaints-about-immigrants-like-the-Brits comment.

To this I tried to remind you that Poland till now never experienced the masses of immigrants like Great Britain or other countries in Europe do/did, so you just can't know how they will react once Poland get's a place on the want-to-go-there-list of masses of third worlders.

Next time you are about to fire another anti-german grenade you should be sure what your "enemy of the day" really said!

KsysiaThreads: 39 Posts: 545 Joined: May 6, 09 ♀	Feb 6, 10, 11:30 #22
OH, BB - I said I was sorry. Veryvery sorry - OK? GB is indeed sucking people out for their market. Not sure why they complain since they offer people jobs on job market fairs in Poland. But there you go.

ExiledThreads: 5 Posts: 729 Joined: Jan 17, 10 ♂	Feb 6, 10, 15:39 #23
You apologize to a German?Have you seen any German apologizing to a Pole?

convexThreads: 47 Posts: 7,189 Joined: Nov 25, 09 ♂	Feb 6, 10, 15:51 #24
Exiled: You apologize to a German?Have you seen any German apologizing to a Pole? sure.

KsysiaThreads: 39 Posts: 545 Joined: May 6, 09 ♀	Feb 6, 10, 19:26 #25
Excuse me but WTF? Should we not be personal about everything? At least i think so.

SzwedwPolsceThreads: 12 Posts: 1,915 Joined: Feb 21, 09 ♂	Edited by: SzwedwPolsce Feb 6, 10, 22:25 #26
Exiled: Have you seen any German apologizing to a Pole? Many times. Bundeskanzler Brandt even apologized to Poland on his knees.

ExiledThreads: 5 Posts: 729 Joined: Jan 17, 10 ♂	Feb 6, 10, 22:47 #27
Sometimes in slavic countries you wonder:how is it possible that everything is so feked up?But then you think of the West,brrrr.

SzwedwPolsceThreads: 12 Posts: 1,915 Joined: Feb 21, 09 ♂	Feb 6, 10, 23:07 #28
Exiled: Sometimes in slavic countries you wonder:how is it possible that everything is so feked up? The majority of Polish people want Poland to be in the EU. That is a statistic fact.

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Feb 7, 10, 12:49 #29

"On December 7, 1970, West German Chancellor Willy Brandt travelled to Warsaw, Poland on a state visit meant to improve relations with Poland and the USSR. On that day, Brandt attended a commemoration of the Jewish victims of the Warsaw Ghetto uprising of 1943. Although it had been decades since the historic uprising and the end of the Holocaust, Brandt was aware of the importance of this official state visit. He would later describe his thoughts leading up to the event."

He didn't apologize to Poland, he apologized to the jews in Poland.

As to more apologies, I really don't need one. What was done was done, todays German people are not responsible for what the government did back in the 30's and 40's. If we go around playing the blame game, we would do no other thing. The only thing we can do is to make sure somehting like this never happens again. By that I mean no more brothers war. The Germanic and Slavic people may have their disitinct differences, but there is more that unites us than divides us.

The only people who still want to rip up old wounds and continue to "remember", are the chosen ones. They will NEVER forget. We, the poles, and the germans must get on with our lives, and make a better future for our children. Not instill them from birth with old war stories and atrocities. Yes, the history books should tell of them, but organized, institutionalized and publicly funded rememberance should be buried with the people who lived through and are now leaving us.

Dariusz

KsysiaThreads: 39 Posts: 545 Joined: May 6, 09 ♀	Edited by: Ksysia Feb 7, 10, 12:52 #30
SzwedwPolsce: That is a statistic fact. No, we want to be in the free movement agreement, not in the Super State. Besides, I think it's down to 40% now. Besides, in real life I've got German friends and have been in Germany just for leisure. It's only the forum ranting time when I b*tch.

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