Warsaw Uprising - The Forgotten Soldiers

David_18Threads: 111 Posts: 1,202 Joined: Jan 4, 07 ♂	Edited by: David_18 Jun 30, 10, 15:00 #1
A very interesting documentary made by CNN. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4738013458382009886# Hope you like it. Kinda sad how the poles were threated by their allies. I Didin't know that Franklin D. Roosevelt was that weak.

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Jun 30, 10, 16:14 #2

I wonder how much the polish government paid CNN for this obvious propaganda documentary! Poles saving jews? Risking their lives in the process? Have I been duped into believing that poles were jew-killers? Did they actually risk their lives to save jews? This is outrageous. Posters like Harry and his friends on this forum have for many months now told us that the poles were just as bad as the nazis, in some instances, even worse! And they call everyone debating them on this for idiots, haters, liars and anti-semites! They claim that poles put thousands of jews into barns and burned them, that they aided the nazis to their hiding-places and pointed them out wherever they could. In some instances the nazis didn't even have to lift their guns, as the poles killed the jews for them!

How can this documentary be true? This must be devastating for the Harry and the polish-hate-foundation on this forum...

Dariusz

lowfunk99Threads: 18 Posts: 435 Joined: Jan 7, 08 ♂	Jun 30, 10, 16:44 #3
I am sure that some helped and some didn't. I have read many books on the ghettos and learned that many Poles helped children escape. Probably, much has been hidden.

David_18Threads: 111 Posts: 1,202 Joined: Jan 4, 07 ♂	Jul 1, 10, 01:26 #4
To be honest i got really emotional when i watched the movie. Almost cryed when i heard how they saved the jews!!!

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Jul 1, 10, 01:59 #5

DariuszTelka:

How can this documentary be true? This must be devastating for the Harry and the polish-hate-foundation on this forum...

Because, despite your obsession with colour, the truth is neither black nor white. Some Poles were worse than the Nazis. Some were the polar opposite. The vast majority were somewhere in the middle. Not that an immigrant like you will ever admit that any Pole was ever anything like as bad as the Nazis (despite you holding political views very much like those of the Nazis).

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Edited by: Matowy Jul 1, 10, 02:15 #6

Harry:

(despite you holding political views very much like those of the Nazis).

Actually his views are pretty much identical to the Nazi racial hierarchy. All that's missing is the mystical element.

EDIT: And like Harry was saying, it's not a matter of "Poles doing X good things" or "Poles doing X bad things". No group of people is completely single-minded. In a morally ambiguous and vicious setting like World War 2, things become blurred, people will react as they will, and it usually doesn't depend upon national identity or sentimentalities. All that national pride crap goes out of the window when it comes down to it, and then you see which individuals are capable of misdeeds and which ones will take up the arduous task of re-asserting morality in the world.

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Edited by: enkidu Jul 1, 10, 02:24 #7

Harry:

Some Poles were worse than the Nazis.

For that reason the Germans were forced to build a huge wall around part of the town and employ a sentry. All in the vain attempt to protect the Jewish population from the Polish Jew-killers. Pro-Polish propaganda call this place a Warsaw Ghetto.

Here is the photo of this wall being build:

Unfortunately the angry Polish mob outside was so thirsty of a Jewish blood that Germans were forced to evacuate almost entire population of this "safety zone".
But that was exactly what the Poles hoped for. The Polish train drivers supposed to take the train full of Jews to the sunny beaches of southern France (as was the plan), instead turn straight to the famous Polish Concentration camp in Auschwitz-Birkenau.
Without noticing the Germans

Here is the photo of the Polish train driver. Please note the evil smile on his Jew-hating face:

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Jul 1, 10, 02:29 #8

Matowy:

All that national pride crap goes out of the window when it comes down to it, and then you see which individuals are capable of misdeeds and which ones will take up the arduous task of re-asserting morality in the world.

Well said. War can bring out the worst in ppl, but also the best. This is with every ppl. Too bad that some on here see it as black and white and after the war almost completely white.

>^..^<

M-G (the line is not that clear when your own life is at stake)

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Jul 1, 10, 02:31 #9

enkidu:

For that reason the Germans were forced to build a huge wall around part of the town and employ a sentry.

No, the Nazis employed Poles (both Jewish and gentile) to help them kill Jews. Clearly the fact that some Poles participated in the Holocaust does not fit with the myth of perfect Poles that you wish to spread. But do you really think that you're fooling anybody by claiming that there is a perfect master race? People know you're lying and they assume you're lying big: and that is why the lie about Polish death camps is so easy for non-Poles to believe.

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Jul 1, 10, 05:07 #10

Harry:

Because, despite your obsession with colour, the truth is neither black nor white. Some Poles were worse than the Nazis. Some were the polar opposite. The vast majority were somewhere in the middle. Not that an immigrant like you will ever admit that any Pole was ever anything like as bad as the Nazis (despite you holding political views very much like those of the Nazis).

If Harry is the same in real life as he is on this forum, he must be a sad pathetic person.

MatowyThreads: 1 Posts: 519 Joined: Jul 4, 09 ♂	Jul 1, 10, 06:01 #11
hague1cmaeron: If Harry is the same in real life as he is on this forum, he must be a sad pathetic person. Why? All he's done so far is run down a few historical facts

David_18Threads: 111 Posts: 1,202 Joined: Jan 4, 07 ♂	Jul 1, 10, 12:20 #12
Seriously guys, why do you have to make a kindergarden in here? So hard to watch the movie before crying out loud????

1jolaThreads: 33 Posts: 2,739 Joined: Sep 23, 08 ♂	Jul 1, 10, 13:08 #13
Harry: No, the Nazis employed Poles (both Jewish and gentile) to help them kill Jews. True, but a lot more Polish Jews were actively involved in sending their loved ones to death than Christian Poles were. Rarely talked about.

HarryThreads: 59 Posts: 7,995 Joined: May 2, 07 ♂	Jul 1, 10, 15:12 #14
1jola: True, but a lot more Polish Jews were actively involved in sending their loved ones to death than Christian Poles were. Rarely talked about. And a lot more Christian Poles than Jewish Poles were killing Jews for free, both during and after the war, which is also rarely talked about.

enkiduThreads: 18 Posts: 978 Joined: Sep 23, 08 ♂	Jul 3, 10, 16:48 #15
Harry: And a lot more Christian Poles than Jewish Poles were killing Jews for free, both during and after the war, which is also rarely talked about. Luckily almost 6500 Polish Jew-haters and criminals was forced to pay for their crimes.

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Jul 5, 10, 09:23 #16

dont listen to people here man

look at the voting Topic - 80% wanted stupid duck to win.

belive it or not but after 50 years of soviet boot this is not the same nation

there was posibly 700 poles that fouth in german forces (they were raised in germany - or born there)

im not saying they didnt hate jews (in 15th century) but im sure it didnt happen during war

there were jews fighting in polish army for polands independence (watch israli war documentry u will here about jews coming beck after wwII to israel )

If the fact about usa selling poland hungry , czeky to russia for peace is hurting dont worry
i fiquered it from other documentrys and dates ...

VarsovianThreads: 85 Posts: 531 Joined: Nov 23, 06 ♂	Edited by: Varsovian Jul 5, 10, 09:40 #17
My wife's great uncle "Z", who was in Bataliony Chłopskie, hid 2 Jews during the war. One became Bierut's adjutant after the war and repaid the debt by protecting Z's private business (timber yard) during Stalinism. The family has since prospered through their connections. Oh, perhaps I'm assuming you know who Bierut was ...

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Jul 7, 10, 01:35 #18

im asuming you talk about this guy wikipedia.org/wiki/Bierut

its still not on subject what i said is polish people themselfs didnt kill jews .

i'd expect it to happen nowdays (see them first in irak ^^[was actully Grom that was there first]) , they love germans russians usa and hate france

and yeah lets vote Kaczynski i bet he doesnt know how economy works but he can send some more troops to iran and somehow we go on ....

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Jul 11, 10, 11:20 #19

my mother witnessed thwe horror of those times, how the poles were treated was evil. war time will make you do all kinds of things, just put yourself in thier place, if it meant your life being saved by having to kill a jew, you would do it. these people wre starved out of exsistance. lets not forget, before all this, hitler and stalin had already decided that the polish people did not have a right to live, they were considered vermin. the polish peole suffered badly at that time, and when i watch these news reals, and we have lots of them here in uk, it makes me sad and very angry. i might even be called justified if i went and beat a german, but that was war, hitler is now dead, poland is free. she paid a high price for her freedom. i am going to poland to see the mass grave where my uncle ended up, so i feel sorrow for poland. dont you think we should be putting aside these views, and lets get on.
it was not enough for hitler to put down the uprising in the ghetto, he had to flatten the whole area. but on a good note, we flattened dresden and kicked ars in berlin. its just a shame the twisted freak had to take the easy way out.

chaza

David_18Threads: 111 Posts: 1,202 Joined: Jan 4, 07 ♂	Jul 16, 10, 20:37 #20
chaza: hitler and stalin had already decided that the polish people did not have a right to live They did? chaza: it was not enough for hitler to put down the uprising in the ghetto, he had to flatten the whole area. but on a good note, we flattened dresden and kicked ars in berlin. its just a shame the twisted freak had to take the easy way out. Polish flag over Berlin, May 1945

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Jul 21, 10, 13:20 #21

chaza:

i might even be called justified if i went and beat a german,

no you wouldnt,you'd be called a fookin lunatic! 65 years ago mate,you'd be called a nutter.

chaza:

it was not enough for hitler to put down the uprising in the ghetto, he had to flatten the whole area.

er,no "he" didnt....if the ghetto area was flattened what are all those buildings doing standing by the time of the 44 uprising?Ya know,the supposedly flattened buildings that the AK fought over and through to release the inmates .....

chaza:

but on a good note, we flattened dresden and kicked ars in berlin.

on a good note?? So the death of men women and children in horriffic ways is bad if they were Polish,good if they were "german"?? Really,btw i put german in "" because thousands were slave workers from the east including Poles.

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂	Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Jul 21, 10, 13:23 #22
David_18: Polish flag over Berlin, May 1945 Say thank you to the Russians, David! You paid for that longer than Germany! :)

David_18Threads: 111 Posts: 1,202 Joined: Jan 4, 07 ♂	Jul 21, 10, 13:29 #23
Bratwurst Boy: Say thank you to the Russians, David! :) Nah i would rather have the Polish Flag in Moscow ;) We even had plans to rebuild Moscow so it would be more modern ;)!!! Sigizmundian Plan of Moscow, engraved in 1610, is the last city plan compiled (by the Poles) before the destruction of the city in 1612 and subsequent changes to the street network.

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Jul 23, 10, 04:16 #24

Bratwurst Boy:

Say thank you to the Russians, David! You paid for that longer than Germany! :)

It doesn't matter.
The battle of good over evil is eternal.
Good will always win in the end :)

isthatu2:

er,no "he" didnt....if the ghetto area was flattened what are all those buildings doing standing by the time of the 44 uprising?Ya know,the supposedly flattened buildings that the AK fought over and through to release the inmates .....

Most of the ghetto area had been distroyed before 1944. Quite possibly some buildings remained. One street remains today.

Harry:

And a lot more Christian Poles than Jewish Poles were killing Jews for free, both during and after the war, which is also rarely talked about.

How do you know?

enkidu:

Luckily almost 6500 Polish Jew-haters and criminals was forced to pay for their crimes.

This is something you read that Torq posted. How do you know it's true?

isthatu2:

a good note?? So the death of men women and children in horriffic ways is bad if they were Polish,good if they were "german"?? Really,btw i put german in "" because thousands were slave workers from the east including Poles.

PS. Germans openly murdered children in front of their parents.
Mankind has not yet invented a bomb that distinguishes a child from an adult.

The Germans asked for it. The Poles did not. Simple.

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Jul 27, 10, 16:39 #25

Ogorki:

PS. Germans openly murdered children in front of their parents.
Mankind has not yet invented a bomb that distinguishes a child from an adult.

The Germans asked for it. The Poles did not. Simple.

Considering the little boy was talking about the bombing of Dresden etc I rather think my point stands.
So,please tell me how a 3 year old german girl asked to be firebombed by the RAF/PAF/USAAF. Id really love to hear this strain of thought. Was she a future member of the BDM? Maybe a runner for the flak 88 batteries? Did she vote for Hitler in 33?

z_dariusThreads: 22 Posts: 5,091 Joined: Oct 18, 07 ♂	Jul 27, 10, 20:22 #26
isthatu2: firebombed by the RAF/PAF/USAAF what's PAF?

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Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Jul 27, 10, 20:36 #27

Ogorki:

The Poles did not. Simple.

Sure they did...Hitler had been open for negotiating about Danzig and the corridor...even for an alliance against Stalin...
It was the Poles who preferred their far away buddies in Paris and London..fully trusting them to rescue their chestnuts out of the fire if pushes came to shove.

Otherwise Polish bragging and deliberately p*issing of their mighty neighbours and even demanding more german lands as the Treaty of Versailles already granted you can't be explained. YOU ASKED FOR AN ARSE KICK!

PaulinaThreads: 2 Posts: 561 Joined: Jan 31, 08 ♀	Jul 27, 10, 20:47 #28
Bratwurst Boy: Sure they did...Hitler had been open for negotiating about Danzig and the corridor...even for an alliance against Stalin... Bratwurst Boy, would you approve if Poland negotiated with Hitler or even created an alliance with that monster? Bratwurst Boy: YOU ASKED FOR AN ARSE KICK! O_O

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Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Jul 27, 10, 20:55 #29

Paulina:

Bratwurst Boy, would you approve if Poland negotiated with Hitler or even created an alliance with that monster?

I'm not a Pole...ask yourself what would had been better.

The german grievances about Silesia, Danzig, a corridor had been real and not unreasonable.
You should have negotiated.
A common enemy was stalinist Russia. There had been other, more agreeable, smarter and even neutral countries who came out of that WWII desaster nearly unscathed.

In the end you were forced to ally with another monster who invaded you first together with the other monster and who kept you afterwards under your thumb for 50+ more years as the Hitler nightmare was over after '45.

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Jul 27, 10, 21:05 #30

Bratwurst Boy:

Sure they did...Hitler had been open for negotiating about Danzig and the corridor

You're right about that one, Hermann Göring visited Poland many times with his wife, our foreign minister Jozef Beck and him were friends, went hunting together and all. Hitler's propositions about him just wanting Danzig and a railroad and highway connecting East Prussia with the rest of Germany, weren't empty promises. He said he admired the Poles for not being afraid like the Czech's over his threats and sticking with it, he was proposing to our Marshal Pilsudski a joint attack on the the Soviet Union, he respected Pilsudski for his tactical skills in warfare, and how he led Poland to defeat Russia in the 1920 Polish-Soviet War.

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