How was Poland compensated after World War 2

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May 1, 10, 21:55 #31

rychlik:

Don't have time to go through all of this BUT Poles who were murdered by Germans or lost property and personal possessions were not compensated monetarily? Nobody got anything??!! How the hell did Jews get personally compensated? No wonder modern day Poles hate their neighbours.

Well, that's not entirely true. There are plenty of victims (or better descendents of victims) that didn't get compensated, not only Poles, among them the majority of the Jews. My grandparents weren't compensated, for example. 3 things go to show that: firstly, if the current German government were to compensate all the victims of WW2, the German state would be bancrupt, which in turn could lead to much worse circumstances for the future; and secondly, why the heck should the current German government (or the current Russian government for that matter) pay for crimes committed by their ancestors? Germany for one has paid on plenty of occasions and I personally think that there comes a time that it should be done with. At one point in time, Germany cannot be held responsible anymore for what happened in the past. How long should it go on then? 500 years? If that is true, I know a lot of countries that should still be paying for sth that happened in the Middle Ages. And thirdly, right after WW2, Poland disappeared behind the Iron curtain, which made it kinda impssbl to compensate victims living there as they were supposed to be the enemy as of that moment.

And pls don't say that Poland was devastated after WW2. It was, that's true, but there were more countries devastated, more cities destroyed, and not all of them, not to say most of them, did not get compensated as well.

>^..^<

M-G (just watched Grumpy Old Men and was reminded what a great movie it actually is)

TheOtherThreads: 5 Posts: 1,584 Joined: Jul 13, 09 ♂	Edited by: TheOther May 1, 10, 22:31 #32
rychlik: No wonder modern day Poles hate their neighbours. Yeah, that's why the biggest Polonia in Europe is in one of the neighboring countries...

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Edited by: Sokrates May 1, 10, 22:58 #33

TheOther:

Yeah, that's why the biggest Polonia in Europe is in one of the neighboring countries...

So UK is bordering Poland or did you "bend" the facts again?:) If you're meaning german Polonia the one thats experiencing the rough edge of german tolerance (softcore prejudices) then its fairly small compared to UK though much larger than the Germans are willing to admit.

MareGaea:

And pls don't say that Poland was devastated after WW2. It was, that's true, but there were more countries devastated,

No country was devastated anywhere close to the level of Poland, not even Russia.

Poland lost virtually all of its industry, two of its three main cultural centres (Lwów was given away by America and Warsaw completely destroyed) one out of six citizens dead.

As compensation Poland received some former german provinces completely destroyed by war, no nation suffered more during and after WW2, Jews for example were allowed to steal Arab land as compensation, Poles were simply shoved under the carpet of european history and everyone tried to pretend Poland wasnt there.

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Edited by: TheOther May 1, 10, 23:03 #34

Did you see how fast we ended up in Random...?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polonia
"The second largest Polonia in the world, and the largest in Europe, is the Polish German community"

Maybe the UK Polonia has become the biggest one in the past years, I don't know. But that wasn't my point. To claim that all Poles hate their neighbors, as Rychlik said, is simply nonsense. Or do I bend the facts again? :)

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Edited by: Sokrates May 1, 10, 23:08 #35

The problem with Polonia in Germany is that due to chauvinist german policies we can't establish how many Poles are there exactly, Wiki is full of sh*t since even detailed studies are unable to establish correct data (Germans do everything possible to disrupt the process of finding out).

Last official surveys point to 2 milion Poles (german citizens embracing their polish heritage).

Also to adress your second point, thats not because of great love between us and Germany, loads of people were left over after partitions during which Poles moved relatively freely within german territories, life of people wanting to keep their polish heritage in Germany is pretty difficult since Germans do everything to abuse and control these people.

TheOther:

To claim that all Poles hate their neighbors

Obviously not hate but the crushing majority of Poles "moved on" at a skin deep level only, the West being the fags they are is not helping.

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Edited by: TheOther May 1, 10, 23:13 #36

Seems as if Poles are in second place when it comes to immigration:

http://www.destatis.de/jetspeed/portal/cms/Sites/destatis/Internet/EN/ Content/Statistics/Bevoelkerung/AuslaendischeBevoelkerung/Tabellen/Con tent75/EinbuergerungStaatsangehoerigkeit,templateId=renderPrint.psml

Sokrates:

Obviously not hate but the crushing majority of Poles "moved on" at a skin deep level

"Skin deep level" meaning what? You can hardly hide your hatred? You don't care about the nationality of others so much anymore? Relationship between Poland and Germany/Russia is not cozy, but back to a normal level? Can you elaborate?

SokratesThreads: 19 Posts: 4,464 Joined: Jan 19, 09 ♂ [Suspended]	May 1, 10, 23:15 #37
TheOther: Seems as if Poles are in second place when it comes to immigration: Second? Unless i'm reading it wrong there's plenty countries ahead of Poland.

TheOtherThreads: 5 Posts: 1,584 Joined: Jul 13, 09 ♂	Edited by: Moderator May 1, 10, 23:20 #38
Sorry, Poland came in third when you take Serbia & Montenegro into account. Please, make an effort to stay on topic. Thank you.

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Edited by: Sokrates May 1, 10, 23:26 #39

Mods:

Please, make an effort to stay on topic.
Thank you.

Nothing more on topic, Poland was not compensated in any way, some pocket change was given by the West but stolen by Russia, the intact eastern provinces were exchanged for ruined german provinces etc.

TheOther:

Sorry, Poland came in third when you take Serbia & Montenegro into account.

Can't beat the money, which doesnt change the fact that it sucks to be Polish in Germany, their goverment makes sure of that every step of the way.

♂

Edited by: MareGaea May 1, 10, 23:30 #40

Sokrates:

Arab land

The lands in question were a British protectorate at the time plus the lands were originally Jewish, but Arabs went to live there - why do you think, were there crusades? Because Arabs threatened to steal the holy land - Jewish land. If we're going to claim lands on historical grounds, then Israël was originally Jewish. You should be able to comprehend that when you take the territories Poland retrieved from Germany after the war. Hundreds of years before the Germans took them they were Polish, then Poland got them back. Same goes for Israël. It was Jewish originally, then the Arabs took it, or better, mingled with the original Jewish population and after the war, the Jews took back what was theirs.

>^..^<

M-G (tiens)

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂	May 1, 10, 23:32 #41
Sokrates: Can't beat the money, which doesnt change the fact that it sucks to be Polish in Germany, their goverment makes sure of that every step of the way. I never heard of that... Did they all tell you about it? Why are they still here if it sucks so much??? Face it...they love it here...so many 'skis became such good Germans over the centuries, we would miss them! :)

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Edited by: Sokrates May 1, 10, 23:39 #42

Bratwurst Boy:

Did they all tell you about it? Why are they still here if it sucks so much???

No you did not, unless you're Polish you wont bump into any trouble and regular german people are just people they dont really participate in any abuse.

For example the Poles in Germany do not enjoy the same state funding as Germans in Poland, any funding of any Polonia organisation is typically dependent on whether representatives of german administration come into the ruling bodies of the organisations.

The very fact that over 1.5 mlion to 2 milion Poles do not receive the minority status is alarming in itself, your goverment is not stupid, its not incompetent so why does it ignore requests to give such minority status to Poles?

Bratwurst Boy:

Why are they still here if it sucks so much???

Moolah sir, same reason why most Poles hate/dont like/mildly dont enjoy UK but go and work there, Poland is Wild West compared to your cushy Western Europe so you just grit your teeth ignore the polack jokes and roll with the paychecks.

Bratwurst Boy:

Face it...they love it here...so many 'skis became such good Germans over the centuries, we would miss them! :)

Something both our nations have in common, we dont assimilate quickly one another, it took Germans in Lesser Poland 2 centuries to fully drop their german heritage, Poles in Germany often keep theirs strong 3rd century in a row.

The main problem German govt appears to have is its afraid of Poles for some reason, one theme that keeps repeating are almost obsessive attempts to control any polish cultural initiative in Germany.

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Edited by: Bratwurst Boy May 1, 10, 23:54 #43

Sokrates:

For example the Poles in Germany do not enjoy the same state funding as Germans in Poland, any funding of any Polonia organisation is typically dependent on whether representatives of german administration come into the ruling bodies of the organisations.

What do you mean with state funding? And why should the Poles get some???
What entitlement have they?

Sokrates:

The very fact that over 1.5 mlion to 2 milion Poles do not receive the minority status is alarming in itself, your goverment is not stupid, its not incompetent so why does it ignore requests to give such minority

Again (I told that repeatedly again), Poles in Germany don't get an minority status because they are immigrants.
Minority status is reserved for...well....native minorities. For example the Sorbs or the danish minority who fell under german rulership as borders changed.

Why do you think Poles in GB don't demand and wouldn't get minority status? The same in Germany.
The Germans in Poland get minority status because of the same reason the Danes get in Germany, they are native to the lands and the change of the borders made them to a minority.

But if I would resettle in Breslau I would be neither entitled to polish state funding nor any minority rights....

You know, all member states subscribed to the same rules...treatment of minorities is part of this. Germany would give Poles in Germany minority status if they were entitled, but that isn't so, nothing mean about it! ;)

Sokrates:

The main problem German govt appears to have is its afraid of Poles for some reason, one theme that keeps repeating are almost obsessive attempts to control any polish cultural initiative in Germany.

I really don't know what you mean!
I never heard of that....who told you all that????

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May 2, 10, 00:17 #44

Bratwurst Boy:

What do you mean with state funding? And why should the Poles get some???
What entitlement have they?

None except for good will however Germans in Poland do receive such aid from the state even though they're not even a minority.

Bratwurst Boy:

Poles in Germany don't get an minority status because they are immigrants.

Even the ones that are around since the XVII century?

Bratwurst Boy:

The Germans in Poland get minority status because of the same reason the Danes get in Germany, they are native to the lands

This has nothing to do with being native and everything with legislature, polish legislature never even considered the fact of germans being native, they simply fell under the paragraph that allows them minority status.

Bratwurst Boy:

I really don't know what you mean!
I never heard of that....who told you all that????

Every major minority organisation in Germany, its not too bad but someone in your govt must be sh*tting their pants, Poles are treated like a potential fifth column for some reason.

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Edited by: Bratwurst Boy May 2, 10, 00:29 #45

Sokrates:

None except for good will

What good will???
Good will for whom, for what, from whom??? As a one time gift? Regular??? Who should get it??? WHY??? Can I apply too??
To get official "state funding" you need a bit more than just demanding "good will"!

Sokrates:

Germans in Poland do receive such aid from the state even though they're not even a minority.

Well, Germans in Poland are entitled to and have minority rights if I remember it correctly, so they are entitled to such things. (That's what minority rights are for in the end)

Sokrates:

Even the ones that are around since the XVII century?

We can call them Germans, can't we...;)

Sokrates:

This has nothing to do with being native and everything with legislature, polish legislature never even considered the fact of germans being native, they simply fell under the paragraph that allows them minority status.

Exactly, they fell under "the paragraph"....Poles in Germany do not.
Sorbs and Danes aren't "native" either but "native minorities". Get your brain around that concept.
The Danes in Schleswig Holstein get minority rights in Germany because they are native to this land but the border and the government changed, from Danish to German...(it wasn't their fault) ;)
The same with the Germans in Poland, they didn't change but the country did.
Poles on the other hand immigrated actively into Germany, they are neither native to Germany nor native immigrants due border changes. Sorbs had always been here but aren't native Germans hence entitled to minority rights.
You spot the differences?

Sokrates:

Every major minority organisation in Germany, its not too bad but someone in your govt must be sh*tting their pants, Poles are treated like a potential fifth column for some reason.

Better you bring some proof or stop talking such crap!
The Poles are the least of our immigrants we have problems with....

PS: I once read that 14 percent of the Germans have a slavic/polish family name - but nobody sees them as Poles, so no minority rights here either! ;)

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