Wespazjan Kochowski and the messianism

LeonisThreads: 30 Posts: 60 Joined: Aug 15, 09 ♀	Edited by: Leonis May 23, 10, 19:58 #1
Hello! Can somebody tell me some words (only 1-2 sentences) about how Kochowski's name connected to the Polish messianism (or sarmatism)? I don't really find any sources about it, and I don't yet understand Polish enough to read original sources. Thank you very much!

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Edited by: nincompoop_not May 23, 10, 22:10 #2

ok, two sentences

Polish messianism grew strongly in the 19th century and Kochowski lived in 17th century.
Here about him in English - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wespazjan_Kochowski

In the 17th and 18th century Jews had many sects which were based on a charismatic leader they called messiah.
Because of the constant contact with the Jewish culture, or simply because of the deep religiosity of Poles, we seemed to adopted the same model - with regards to the whole nation. The first messianic elements began to appear in the Sarmatism during the Baroque period. Polish nation, supposedly derived from ancient people of the Sarmatians, had to have a special role in world history.
Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth was to be the bastion of Christianity, place of freedom and asylum in Europe. These ideas expressed Kochowski in psalms (Psalm V, Psalm VII, Psalm IX, XV, Psalm, Psalm XXVI, Psalm xxxvi). What Kochowski and his psalms were about you can read following the link above.

We used to learn at school that 'Polska Mesjaszem Narodow' - meaning - Poland the Messiah of all nations. And that's the idea behind.

LeonisThreads: 30 Posts: 60 Joined: Aug 15, 09 ♀	May 24, 10, 13:16 #3
Wow, thanks a lot for these two sentences. I only heard about Polska Christusem Narodów. Though that's the same. Thanks!

nincompoop_notThreads: 4 Posts: 229 Joined: Nov 3, 09 ♀	Edited by: nincompoop_not May 24, 10, 13:23 #4
yep - that's the same :) it's about how we are the 'chosen' ones and how we suffered over centuries like Christ suffered etc :)

LeonisThreads: 30 Posts: 60 Joined: Aug 15, 09 ♀	May 25, 10, 20:33 #5
nincompoop_not: it's about how we are the 'chosen' ones and how we suffered over centuries like Christ suffered etc :) It's a very nice idea though, I like learning about it. :-)

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Edited by: nincompoop_not May 25, 10, 21:06 #6

messianism peaked during partitions of Poland; in literature - Mickiewicz, Slowacki and they're the ones (among others) I blame personally for all those grandiose ideas about us ;)

It stayed with us; we are still 'the best and the chosen ones' as a nation ;) we've suffered centuries ago, we've suffered recently and still came up on the top of things
One of the reasons why Poles are so proud and almost to the point of being ostentatious and dismissive of others - 'because we are better'

Seeing you are in Hungary...there's a saying - Polak Wegier dwa bratanki i do bitwy i do szklanki - which means Poles and Hungarians are two best friends - in fight and in fun; or Pole and Hungarian — two good friends, joint fight and drinking are their ends.

I think it was because of our common king - the 'Varna' one - when WE saved the WHOLE of the Europe from 'infidel Tatars' ;) - another reason to be proud of

Off topic - I know Budapest a little but I remember two other places I've been to - Ash and Varpalotta.
btw - I assume it's a school project? all this info you need. May I ask what's about?

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Edited by: noreenb May 25, 10, 23:16 #7

nincompoop_not
messianism peaked during partitions of Poland; in literature - Mickiewicz, Slowacki and they're the ones (among others) I blame personally for all those grandiose ideas about us ;)

You should not to blame Słowacki.
He was against messianism poetry, what he has written in the introduction to the 3. volume of his "Poetry".

Two words for Kochowski?
"Golden freedom" for Polish people and Poland as an oasis of freedom surrounded by out-and-out monarchies.

nincompoop_notThreads: 4 Posts: 229 Joined: Nov 3, 09 ♀	May 26, 10, 00:39 #8
I've always known I should blame my wonderful Polish lit teacher :)

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Edited by: Leonis May 27, 10, 10:26 #9

nincompoop_not:

btw - I assume it's a school project? all this info you need. May I ask what's about?

I study polonystyka in the university, and I was preparing for the exam, that's why I needed help (there are a very few source to read so I'm grateful for your help).
Actually, I love Polish culture, it's so enchanting, and by the way don't you believe that these messianistic ideas existed only in Polish literature. You can fnd it the Hungarian, the Croatian, the Czech etc literature, and I think there's nothing wrong with it. In Central-Europe so much blood had been lost to protect Western European countries from Turkish threat. So this is truth that we were the defenders of Christianity. Anyway it's very interesting for me, how Polish people think about their own literature.

Polak Wegier dwa bratanki i do bitwy i do szklanki - which means Poles and Hungarians are two best friends

Yes I know this saying! :-D Polish and Hungarian history connect to each other at many points.

Off topic - I know Budapest a little but I remember two other places I've been to - Ash and Varpalotta.

Ash - I don't know what you think of, but hope you had a nice time here:-)

Two words for Kochowski?
"Golden freedom" for Polish people and Poland as an oasis of freedom surrounded by out-and-out monarchies

Thank you very much, too!

noreenbThreads: 4 Posts: 1,082 Joined: Apr 22, 09 ♀	May 27, 10, 20:33 #10
Thank you very much, too! You're welcome>

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