WW2 - The other side. What USSR, also that the Polish government has made not to admit WW2

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Edited by: Pro_Svet_Spb Jun 13, 11, 20:39 #1

All that happens in relations between our states was a consequence of the accepted decisions of our heads of the states, and they not always are will of the people...

Here is some facts:

On March, 16th 1933 At the World conference on disarmament the British prime minister has suggested to allow Germany to double number of German army and on as much to reduce number of the French army.

1933 - Refusal of Poland to take part in the offered USSR "East pact". Poland and Germany have suggested the USSR to conclude such pact without France and Czechoslovakia but on such conditions the USSR has refused

January 1934 - Nonaggression pact between Germany and Poland.

1936 Introduction by Germany of armies in the Rhine area. Poland has supported this step. In the answer France has declared that has no more obligations to Warsaw. Great Britain has taken of a neutral position. Later Poland also has supported Anschluss Austria.

On October, 2nd
1938 Polish armies occupied Czech Teshin and territory adjoining to him . Thus, Poland together with Hitler's Germany participated in occupation and a partition of Czechoslovakia and input of the Soviet armies to Poland was not unique and not the first similar action of that time.

1939 British government has suggested Soviet Union to give unilateral obligations to neighboring countries. Obligations to the USSR it was not provided.

1940 *) the French government under the agreement with the English government has offered the general M.Gamelenu and admiral F. Darlanu to develop the plan "Direct intrusion to caucasus". The Deputy The General staff of the Air Forces of France a gene. Berjoro: "from r thow Near East approach to Baku(USSR) … will begin Then it will develop in northern direction towards to the armies coming from Scandinavia and Finland to Moscow. [P.Stehlin. Temoignage pour l'Ristoire. Paris, 1964, p.215]
*) Certainly, the most part of these plans it has been caused by the Soviet-Finnish war. But it is interesting to compare them to statements during time of "strange war" (after an attack of Germany to Poland)

1942 London Polish government refuses to send the armies formed in territory of the USSR, on front and has deduced them to the Near East (it was just during Stalingrad fight).

It is obvious that the facts and the statements, similar the aforesaid, always try to trace foreign policy departments of all countries. And, most likely, appreciably then all it was known to a management of the USSR. Therefore there is nothing surprising in the followed list towards Germany. And to accuse Russia of it probably nevertheless hypocrisy. Or, the modern language, "display of double standards".

If have something to add from your side you are most welcome...

P.S. From my own: i like people from around the world, just government makes them look bad.

With Kind Regards,

From Russia.

Grzegorz_Threads: 81 Posts: 6,213 Joined: Nov 16, 06 ♂	Jun 13, 11, 21:01 #2
Pro_Svet_Spb: From Russia. Who woulda guess :)) Pro_Svet_Spb: If have something to add from your side you are most welcome... Thank you...

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Edited by: Pro_Svet_Spb Jun 13, 11, 21:02 #3

Map of Europe

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Jun 13, 11, 21:10 #4

Pro_Svet_Spb:

If have something to add you are most welcome...

Soviet Union under Stalin was an evil empire. It was guilty of genocide of millions of people of many nationalities, Russian included, long before the war started. Making pacts with Stalin and believing in his good intentions was pure stupidity with tragic consequences. Actually the only pacts that made sense were the likes of Molotov-Ribbentrop, when you expected to break them anyway.

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Jun 13, 11, 21:13 #5

Pro_Svet_Spb:

1936 Introduction by Germany of armies in the Rhine area. Poland has supported this step. In the answer France has declared that has no more obligations to Warsaw. Great Britain has taken of a neutral position.

This actually was a step to admit the WWII, at least indirectly. The Wehrmacht was not prepared for war in 1936 and if the allies really followed the decisions of the Versaille Treaty and responded with weapons, the history could have taken different turns. Hitler wrote somewhere that the 2 days after they entered the Rhine area were the most stressful in his life, since his army could have been crushed within days.

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Edited by: Pro_Svet_Spb Jun 13, 11, 21:23 #6

RobertLee:

Soviet Union under Stalin was an evil empire

On April, 25th, 1920 — Poland without declaration of war has attacked Russia which is bleeding profusely in civil war, and under the Riga contract has appropriated a part of the Ukrainian and Belorussian earths.

In October, 1920 the Polish armies have grasped Vilno and Vilensky area at Lithuania, inconsiderately having broken the Suvalksky contract.

On May, 3rd, 1921 Poland a military way has begun capture of the Top Silesia. Allies have warned Berlin that intervention рейхсвера will mean war. As a result by October, 1921 to Poland the considerable part of the Top Silesia from 80 % of all industry and the basic part of coal stocks has departed.

In October, 1938 Poland has attacked Czechoslovakia, having snipped off at last Teshinsky area where lived 80 thousand Poles and 120 thousand Czechs. Thus the industrial potential of the grasped territory was the main acquisition of Poles: the enterprises located there gave in the end of 1938 almost half of pig-iron and a steel, made in Poland.

During all 20-30th years Poland didn't leave intentions to annex Lithuania. Have especially inspired Warsaw Hitler's aggressive actions in Austria in March of 1938. By the way, with Hitler's fascist mode the Polish management long time was in rather good fellowship, having concluded the non-aggression pact in 1934. When Hitler 1938 carried out on March, 11-12th annex Austria, Warsaw has tried to do the same with Lithuania (which called precisely «the Polish Austria»). On March, 15th, 1938 in Warsaw and Vilno have passed the Antilithuanian demonstrations under the general slogan «Forward on Kovno!» (To Kaunas — capital of Lithuania of that time). To Lithuania the ultimatum has been delivered, and to the Lithuanian border is concentrated over 100 thousand Polish armies. And only the position of the USSR and France has kept Poland from military intrusion.

The Poland does not looks very peaceful country at all ))

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Edited by: Pro_Svet_Spb Jun 13, 11, 21:37 #7

RobertLee:

Making pacts with Stalin and believing in his good intentions was pure stupidity with tragic consequences

What else to do if everybody against you :

Poland constantly tried to grasp the free city of Danzig, arranged provocations, and only protests of Germany and a resolute position of England and France haven't allowed it to carry out the plans.

On December, 28th, 1938 just appointed the envoy of Poland in Iran J.Karsho-Sedlevsky has told in conversation with the adviser of embassy of Germany in Poland R.Shelija:

«The political prospect is clear for the European East. In some years Germany will be at war with Soviet Union... For Poland it is better to support absolutely definitely to the conflict Germany as territorial interests of Poland in the west and political ends of Poland in the east, first of all in Ukraine, can be provided only by in advance reached Polish-German agreement. He, Karsho-Sedlevsky, will subordinate the activity as the Polish envoy in Teheran to realization of this great east concept as it is necessary to convince and induce eventually also Persians and Afghans to play an active role in the future war vs USSR.

Recognition of Ribbentropa after a meeting with the Minister for Foreign Affairs of Poland Bekom on January, 26th, 1939: «Mr. Bek didn't hide that Poland applies for the Soviet Ukraine and on an exit to Black sea».

Or here the deputy minister of foreign affairs of Poland count Shembek directs on December, 10th, 1938 the instruction to the Polish ambassador in Moscow Grzhibovsky:

«It is extremely difficult to us to keep balance between Russia and Germany. Our relations with last completely are based on concept of the most responsible persons of the Third Reich which assert that in the future conflict between Germany and Russia Poland is the natural ally of Germany».

In December, 1938 in the report of 2nd (prospecting) department of a general staff of the Army Polish it was in plain terms specified:

«The partition of Russia underlies the Polish policy in the east... Therefore our possible position will be reduced to the following formula: who will take part in section. Poland shouldn't remain passive during this remarkable historical moment. The problem consists in that it is beforehand good to be prepared physically and spiritually... The Overall objective — easing and defeat of Russia» («Z dziejow stosunkow polsko-radzieckich. Studia i materialy», T.III. Warszawa, 1968, S. 262, 287)

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Edited by: legend Jun 13, 11, 22:00 #8

Of course Poland isnt innocent but it sure as hell is less guilty then some countries.
We took some of Lithuania, Czech sure.

But Bolshevik Russia is a whole other story.
The Russian people are good. I respect them.
But bastards like Trotsky, Lenin, Grigory Zinoviev, Yuri Andropov.

These were ALL JEWISH ATHEISTICAL 'Russians'. If you want I can give proof if you ask.
In their policies MILLIONS of slavs died. Russians, Ukrainians, Belurussians, Poles, etc.

Stalin was no better. He used your people (he was Georgian) and TENS OF MILLIONS of Russians, Ukrainians, Poles died.

The only reason Russia should pay respect to him is because he helped rally your people to beat the Nazis (In particular Germany and some Romanians who also were attacking Russia).
And the world is thankful.

Other than that he was a bastard. There is no other word to describe him.

I hope you at least realize what these 'people' did to your people also.

Why do you think slavic people have such a 'suspicion' of Jewish people? Its because of their leaders.

Speaking of WWII...

Those were very complicated times. Personally I wish Russia would have allied with Poland sooner then Germany. Russians used this time to mobilize while Germany was attacking the west.
Alot of hate would be gone today. Again though it was the people following leaders orders.

What are your opinions as a Russian when it comes to those Bolshevik 'leaders'?

PS Good chances this will be modded. Cant even tell the truth anymore these days.

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Jun 13, 11, 22:05 #9

Pro_Svet_Spb:

Or here the deputy minister of foreign affairs of Poland count Shembek directs on December, 10th, 1938 the instruction to the Polish ambassador in Moscow Grzhibovsky:

«It is extremely difficult to us to keep balance between Russia and Germany. Our relations with last completely are based on concept of the most responsible persons of the Third Reich which assert that in the future conflict between Germany and Russia Poland is the natural ally of Germany».

And in the same year Poland refuses the offer to join Anti-Comintern Pact? Something is missing from your quote, Mr. H.

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Jun 13, 11, 22:24 #10

Marynka11:

And in the same year Poland refuses the offer to join Anti-Comintern Pact? Something is missing from your quote, Mr. H.

I think everything is clear :Minister for Foreign Affairs Molotov has well told about efforts of Soviet Union on a preservation of peace in Europe at session of the Supreme body of the USSR on August, 31st, 1939:

«You know that the English-ex-Soviet negotiations about the conclusion of the pact of mutual aid mind aggression in Europe have begun in April. However, the first offers of the English government, as it is known, were absolutely unacceptable. They ignored the basic preconditions of such negotiations — ignored a principle of reciprocity and equal obligations. Despite this, Soviet government hasn't refused negotiations and has in turn brought the offers... But these negotiations have encountered absolute obstacles... These negotiations have encountered that Poland which should guarantee in common England, France and the USSR, has refused the military help from Soviet Union. To overcome these objections of Poland and it was not possible. More than that, negotiations have shown that England and doesn't aspire to overcome these objections of Poland, and, on the contrary, supports them. It is clear that at such position of the Polish government and his main ally to business of rendering of the military help from Soviet Union on an aggression case, the English-ex-Soviet negotiations couldn't give good results. After that it became clear to us that the English-ex-Soviet negotiations are doomed to a failure.

What have shown negotiations with England and France?

The English-ex-Soviet negotiations have shown that the position of England and France is penetrated through by glaring contradictions. Judge.

On September, 25th, 1938 in conversation with the American colleague the Polish ambassador in Paris Lukasevich has declared:

«Religious war between fascism and the Bolshevism begins, and in case of rendering of the help of Czechoslovakia by Soviet Union Poland is ready to war from the USSR shoulder to shoulder with Germany. The Polish government is assured that within three months Russian armies will be completely crushed also Russia won't represent more even similarity of the state»

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Jun 13, 11, 22:56 #11

legend:

What are your opinions as a Russian when it comes to those Bolshevik 'leaders'?

My Grand-grandfather was a guard of the last Russian Tsar, by the way he was a half Polish, so what i can say...

I've never was a member of the communist party, and i hate that in 1st class there was portrait of Lenin in front of textbooks..

But was a good side of that time...no drugs, no desease, free education, appartments, good medicine, less crime....

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Jun 13, 11, 23:08 #12

Pro_Svet_Spb:

But was a good side of that time...no drugs, no desease, free education, appartments, good medicine, less crime....

Free education in the Communist propaganda machine sweet!

What about the empty stores?

Ow yea the GREAT russian communists gave us the shitiest apartments in Europe, seen the blocks in eastern europe?

And ofc there was less crime, since it was legal for the state to play criminals.

So no there was NOTHING good from that time. Maybe the cheap vodka that you Russians like so much. But here in Poland we only like pemium stuff so you can keep that cheap *** vodka and put it up your *****.

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Jun 13, 11, 23:24 #13

David_18:

Ow yea the GREAT russian communists....

The GREAT EU will do better :

The authorities of the European Union demand from Poland to give the plan of closing of a considerable part of an unprofitable shipyard in Gdansk where there was trade union "Solidarity".

As has informed the Polish agency of FATHERS, the deputy minister of economy of Poland Pavel Pontsiliush has declared that the country won't dismantle two of three building berths of Gdansk shipyard as that is demanded by the European commission.

The former shipyard of a name of Lenin in Gdansk where in 1980 independent trade union "Solidarity" led by Lehom Valensoj has arisen, is unprofitable also long time kept afloat at the expense of the state grants.

The majority of the Polish ship-building enterprises on Baltic was subsidized: since 2002 of shipyard of Gdansk, Gdynia and Szczecin have received at least 1,3 billion euro.

By EU rules, the state help in ship-building branch should be combined with radical plans of re-structuring.

In all similar projects should participate and a private sector, and "the deforming effect of the help should be compensated by reduction of capacities", the Eurocommission has declared.

For this reason on July, 20th EU executive office has suggested to leave from Gdansk shipyard only one building berth from three existing, or to return all grants received from the state that will lead to full bankruptcy of the enterprise.

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Jun 13, 11, 23:34 #14

Pro_Svet_Spb:

My Grand-grandfather was a guard of the last Russian Tsar, by the way he was a half Polish, so what i can say...

I've never was a member of the communist party, and i hate that in 1st class there was portrait of Lenin in front of textbooks..

But was a good side of that time...no drugs, no desease, free education, appartments, good medicine, less crime....

Kinda sucks that those 'Russian' JEWS killed the royal family (not only that but they took his money.. he was considered one of the richest people on earth... a Jew taking money THATS SOMETHING NEW LOL).

In the time of the Bolsheviks definitely not a good side. People were starving to death (Holodomar, etc).

Later on perhaps Im not sure.

Remember that 'communism' in Russia, China, etc are not real communism.

Pro_Svet_SpbThreads: 1 Posts: 61 Joined: Apr 10, 10 ♂	Jun 13, 11, 23:35 #15
David_18: David_18 EU is a big trap for eastern europe, they will lend you a money, destroying you production at the same time and they know that you can't pay back, 'cause you've nothing to produce to sell, prices are rising up, wages are down, easy to rule countries like that, they will tell you what to do..

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Edited by: David_18 Jun 13, 11, 23:37 #16

Pro_Svet_Spb:

The GREAT EU will do better :

I was just testing you :)

Now i know what you stand for Mr Soviet propaganda machine.

Pro_Svet_Spb:

EU is a big trap for eastern europe, they will lend you a money, destroying you production at the same time and they know that you can't pay back, 'cause you've nothing to produce to sell, prices are rising up, wages are down, easy to rule countries like that, they will tell you what to do..

Wait wait are we talking about Russia now?

Pro_Svet_SpbThreads: 1 Posts: 61 Joined: Apr 10, 10 ♂	Jun 13, 11, 23:47 #17
David_18: Now i know what you stand for Mr Soviet propaganda machine. Dear David, Today is year 2011, but you are somewhere in 1970-80th still fighting like a partisan against Ghost named "USSR" and if you can only judge Russia by " David_18: so you can keep that cheap * vodka and put it up your *** , i feel very sorry to you 'cause you know nothing about what is the country like....

David_18Threads: 111 Posts: 1,212 Joined: Jan 4, 07 ♂	Jun 13, 11, 23:50 #18
Pro_Svet_Spb: i feel very sorry to you 'cause you know nothing about what is the country like.... And i don't want to know.

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Jun 13, 11, 23:51 #19

David_18:

Free education in the Communist propaganda machine sweet!

Hm... Someone who never been there trying to teach everyone? ;)

Yes, of course, it was nominally free. Another thing that it was paid from taxes - direct or indirect.

Schools was free all the time, for all legal residents (one of my classmates was citizen of one of Latin america countries and I never heard that he paid anything). Universities was free too, of course, for citizens (but you have to pass entry exams and your exam score should be in the top of the list of that year - usually there was 1.5-4 pretendents to one budget funded place in engineering specialities and up to 100 pretendents to one place in foreign affairs and international trade high schools). I don't think, though, that some average, not extremely bright, boy or girl would pass entry exams in MGIMO sucessfully - there was a lot of childs of high ranked officials (often not bright at all) that need some good start in their life, somewhere in ministry of foreign affairs or some embassy in Africa. ;)

Pro_Svet_SpbThreads: 1 Posts: 61 Joined: Apr 10, 10 ♂	Jun 14, 11, 00:21 #20
legend: Remember that 'communism' in Russia, China, etc are not real communism. 100% agree The was a good idea, but dose not work...

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Edited by: legend Jun 14, 11, 00:24 #21

Pro_Svet_Spb:

EU is a big trap for eastern europe, they will lend you a money, destroying you production at the same time and they know that you can't pay back, 'cause you've nothing to produce to sell, prices are rising up, wages are down, easy to rule countries like that, they will tell you what to do..

In general I dont like what the EU leaders are doing but there is some things they do 'okay'.

I dont understand clearly if you dislike/hate the EU though?

Some people realize that nowadays its US boss and EU puppet states saying YES SIR at her command.
The ones in command are the obvious ones + zionists.

In any future conflict the US leads while ass lickers like Britain instantly follow.

I certainly understand why Russia would not like this. Its basically all white people against Russia.

Unfortunetly the days of Russian power are mostly over (except the nukes and some guys who are good at foreign policy).

There is no one to oppose the US zionist bastards.

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Jun 14, 11, 00:46 #22

legend:

I dont understand clearly if you dislike/hate the EU though?

I like EU in general, but that system remind me something....good idea (something behind this), but money not enough for all countries, the strongest economies : Germany, France... Mix together all the nations makes them "without a sort and a tribe", destroy your history, culture, they will not take care about new members, use them as a cheap labor, no respect.They need young people to keep there populations and bring you 1000's refugees from Africa or else were and you can't deny, You are not belong to your self... Sorry, We are...

You might be interesting in this movie, name: "End of Game"(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-CrNlilZho)

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂	Jun 14, 11, 00:47 #23
Oh gawd.....not another doom-sayer! Why don't you clean up your own country first before you advise others.

Pro_Svet_SpbThreads: 1 Posts: 61 Joined: Apr 10, 10 ♂	Jun 14, 11, 01:01 #24
Bratwurst Boy: Oh gawd.....not another doom-sayer! It's just a point of someones view, why you so worry? Are you one of "THEM" -)))))))))) Bratwurst Boy: Why don't you clean up your own country first before you advise others. I've got the question and just answering on it, you might have different view of this...

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂	Jun 14, 11, 01:02 #25
sinister laugh "We will survive you all!" ;)

Pro_Svet_SpbThreads: 1 Posts: 61 Joined: Apr 10, 10 ♂	Jun 14, 11, 01:07 #26
Bratwurst Boy: "We will survive you all!" The Reds are coming !!! - Scared? - i don't )))))))))))))))))))))))))))) Some thing is just good to know rather put a head in sand

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Edited by: legend Jun 14, 11, 01:32 #27

Pro_Svet_Spb:

You might be interesting in this movie, name: "End of Game"(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-CrNlilZho)

Oh the Alex Jones movie.
I am well versed in so called conspiracy theories. I "researched" them in my spare time for many years. The craziest time was 9/11. In summary I always thought something was not right with this world so I listened/read/etc on the topics. But now after 10 years of this stuff I have come to the conclusion that the majority of it is BS.

I realize that if you talk about this stuff in public or maybe even here you will get bashed for it.
All I will suggest is come to your own conclusion dont let any media full you. Whether its CNN, FOX, or crazy ol' alex jones. Be open minded. This is kind of off topic so Ill end here.

Pro_Svet_Spb:

I like EU in general, but that system remind me something....good idea (something behind this), but money not enough for all countries, the strongest economies : Germany, France... Mix together all the nations makes them "without a sort and a tribe", destroy your history, culture, they will not take care about new members, use them as a cheap labor, no respect.They need young people to keep there populations and bring you 1000's refugees from Africa or else were and you can't deny, You are not belong to your self... Sorry, We are...

Personally I think Europe should remain white.
We definetly need more babies (because of low birthrate). I would like to point out that Russia, Ukraine, Poland and Italy will suffer the most. Britain and France populations will be kept steady because of immigrants. Again this has been discussed elsewhere on PF.

isthatu2Threads: 13 Posts: 5,225 Joined: Apr 3, 08 ♂	Jun 14, 11, 01:59 #28
legend: Personally I think Europe should remain white. Personnally I think its got fcuk all to do with a dumb arse Canuck what Europe remains or does not remain..... Watch out though leg end,the jews are coming for you....pathetic wee man.

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Edited by: legend Jun 14, 11, 02:17 #29

isthatu2:

Personnally I think its got fcuk all to do with a dumb arse Canuck what Europe remains or does not remain.....
Watch out though leg end,the jews are coming for you....pathetic wee man.

Thats right attack the person rather than the argument.
Good job.

But now ill return the favor since youve already done it.

It has nothing to do with me being Canadian or Polish.
Similar views are seen worldwide.
And personally I dont give a **** about what you say because everyone has the right to speak opinion.
It doesnt matter where I live.
The Jews arent coming for me or anybody. Its a bunch of leaders who are zionists that I complain about.

Now that youve made a generalization about me.
Heres mine to you: enjoy your hooked nose because the nazis are coming to get you.

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Edited by: Nathan Jun 14, 11, 02:25 #30

Pro_Svet_Spb:

On April, 25th, 1920 — Poland without declaration of war has attacked Russia which is bleeding profusely in civil war, and under the Riga contract has appropriated a part of the Ukrainian and Belorussian earths.

How could Poland attack Russia? Did you have common proper borders at that time? What did Russia do in Ukraine and Belorus? Did Poland attack Moscow or Saratov? No. You both wanted the same piece of pie: lands of Ukraine and Belorus. You said you were bleeding profusely? You have never bled enough it seems. But it is all you are able to do or to be involved in: war to waste human lives. 2 hundred years ago or today - Russians are the same: fighting for more land to turn into a pigsty.

Pro_Svet_Spb:

«The partition of Russia underlies the Polish policy in the east...

Pro_Svet_Spb:

to you 'cause you know nothing about what is the country like....

Well, I do. It looks like a sh*thole. Besides Moscow and St. Petersburg, there is nothing worth visiting or living in. But of course, you are a proud Russian boy who with honor would let die its submarine crew of over 120 people than recognize what a helpless bunch of degenerates your policy-makers are. You would send poor kids to fight the sooner-or-later to be free Chechnia on planes they have never seen in their life and who will follow the orders to bombard the city where your own army is located. You will murder more than 300 journalists since 1993 and won't bother to solve a single case with justice. This is what no one ever wants his/her country to be. You know that you are nobody in your state, less than a toilet paper, which will be torn if it said something wrong. You have more rights as a non-citizen in EU than a citizen of Russia. But still you are afraid to adopt AS A BEING the values 27 states of EU and the rest of the civilized world support. Hold on to your dirty shack.

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