WWII Polish Exiles in Uganda

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Nov 20, 09, 00:28 #1

Anybody know anything about this?

[i]A Corner of a Ugandan Field that is Forever Poland

I would like to share the amazing story of the 7,000 Polish people who were exiled to Uganda during and after World War II, between 1942 and 1952. Some 100 of them are buried in a cemetery in a village 100 km east of Uganda's capital, Kampala. Many people from Poland are not aware of this piece of history concerning their citizens, who suffered the worst atrocities of World War II. Perhaps the

szkotja2007Threads: 38 Posts: 2,543 Joined: Dec 29, 06 ♂	Nov 20, 09, 00:31 #2
Any links ? Sounds interesting.

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Edited by: cheehaw Nov 20, 09, 00:34 #3

No idea why it didn't stay, it seemed to post, here it is again c/p

well now it's posted in 2 threads that's weird.
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Anybody know anything about this?

A Corner of a Ugandan Field that is Forever Poland

I would like to share the amazing story of the 7,000 Polish people who were exiled to Uganda during and after World War II, between 1942 and 1952. Some 100 of them are buried in a cemetery in a village 100 km east of Uganda's capital, Kampala. Many people from Poland are not aware of this piece of history concerning their citizens, who suffered the worst atrocities of World War II. Perhaps there are survivors or their relatives who may be interested in the site. I foresee a possibility of developing historical tourism between the people of Poland and Uganda. The site is marked with a memorial stone bearing the names of the dead (see picture) where i took a Polish Visitor in 2005. The cream marble memorial stone was the good work of a Polish priest who lived in Uganda.
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link here to page -> http://www.odemagazine.com/exchange/76/a_corner_of_a_ugandan_field_tha t_is_forever_poland

and this accompanying info

The General Langfitt Story
Polish Refugees Recount Their Experiences of Exile, Dispersal and Resettlement

http://www.immi.gov.au/media/publications/refugee/langfitt/

MareGaeaThreads: 45 Posts: 5,529 Joined: Feb 6, 08 ♂	Nov 20, 09, 01:13 #4
How in the world did they end up in Uganda? The link doesn't say - basically that they were there. Exiled, yes, but why to Uganda; it's not like that's a logical choice... >^..^< M-G (but still interesting)

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Edited by: sjam Nov 20, 09, 13:03 #5

MareGaea:

why to Uganda; it's not like that's a logical choice

Kenya, Uganda, Tanganyika, Rhodesia and India were all British colonies that were considered safe havens for Polish civilians who had been taken out of USSR with Anders as was New Zealand and Australia. Poles also were sent to South Africa, Argentina and Mexico for their safety. So it was a logical choice :-))

There is still actually a small Polish community in Nairobi, Kenya. Some of whom I met again on a return trip a to Kenya a couple of years back. They made a good life there during the time when Kenya was British and stayed on after Kenyan independence in the mid-1960s. I also lived in Nairobi (and Malindi near Mombasa) as a kid, and my father would buy Polish foodstuff from a downtown Polish deli which was run by a lady who was a former Siberian deportee.

Most Poles who were sent to African refugee camps got to Africa via boat from India having been transferred there from Persia/Iran.

Poles in the British mandate of Palestine were clothed, fed and looked after by the British government and the British Armed Forces and funding from Polish givernment-in-exile, not by local Arabs. Whilst his forces were stationed in Palestine Anders allowed hundreds of Polish-Jews that had enlisted in the Polish armed forces to 'desert' to join Jewish organisations involved in the fight against the British for a Jewish state in Palestine. Anders refused to arrest or help the British to find and arrest these 'deserters' whom Anders thought of as freedom fighters—as were the Poles at that time.

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Nov 20, 09, 21:42 #6

Quite a few of them stayed on in palestine and Lebanon though.

and there was/is (but smaller now) a pretty thriving Christian community especially in Lebanon a few decades ago.

lots went south to new zealand and australia too.

I know there were a lot of Christians in Iraq before the invasion too. I wonder if a lot of them were the children of polish refugees too.

We are an international community! Maybe when people here say to polish people living in other countries 'you're not polish!' it's actually the soviet indoctrination speaking. the soviets disenfranchised all the poles overseas who wouldn't return.

Stalin actually did them a great blessing by cattle training them out of Poland when he did.. albeit a lot died on the journey but lots died at home too.

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Nov 21, 09, 11:45 #7

cheehaw:

Maybe when people here say to polish people living in other countries 'you're not polish!' it's actually the soviet indoctrination speaking.

If your not a Polish citizen you are not Polish nothing to do with Soviet indoctrination.

If you were born outside Poland to a Polish citizen then I believe the Polish state considers you a Polish citizen also.

I think it is also true that if you are born in Poland that does not automatically mean your are a Polish citizen unlike in England (and maybe the USA?) where you become a citizen even if your parents are not UK nationals if you are born here.

cheehaw:

the soviets disenfranchised all the poles overseas who wouldn't return.

I think you will agree it was actually the Polish communist government—who were not all Soviet.

1jolaThreads: 33 Posts: 2,739 Joined: Sep 23, 08 ♂	Nov 21, 09, 12:08 #8
sjam: I think you will agree it was actually the Polish communist government—who were not all Soviet. Nor Jewish.

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Nov 22, 09, 17:24 #9

sjam:

If your not a Polish citizen you are not Polish nothing to do with Soviet indoctrination.

Interesting. Then Polish people outside of Poland have no ancestry? Definitely unique. Kind of rewrites world history. So then, that would also explain why soviet Russians inside Poland are now Polish?

sjam:

If you were born outside Poland to a Polish citizen then I believe the Polish state considers you a Polish citizen also.

Only after 1918. Prior to which all Poles must have actually been Austrians.

You europeans are all alike, I think.

Notably however I do usually tell people I am Austrian here in America. Telling them I am Polish gets me an eeew and a grimace whereas telling them I am Austrian is acceptable and welcome. I tell them the Z in my name is related to the Schwarzeneggar clan.

heh. it works too. they like that. I have never been questioned once about it and I have been doing it for over 20 years.

I don't look like a babushka no reason to act like one.

Modern Poles however are not afforded that luxury. Not if they or a parent/grandparent are born in Poland after 1918. American law stipulates it.

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Nov 22, 09, 18:30 #10

cheehaw:

Telling them I am Polish gets me an eeew and a grimace

Why?

cheehaw:

Stalin actually did them a great blessing by cattle training them out of Poland when he did.. albeit a lot died on the journey but lots died at home too.

Are you high ?

sjam:

deserters' whom Anders thought of as freedom fighters—

he didn't want them in his volunteer army, as they would have bad influence on the army morale!
Deserter corporal Begin become Israel PM I think.

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Nov 22, 09, 19:00 #11

Ironside:

Why?

Polish people are looked upon as sort of backwards, not real bright, in most places except Polish communities. When I was growing up, a teenager in the late 70's, being Polish was not something you advertised.

still isn't as far as I can tell. The last time someone gave me an eeew when I said my family were Polish was just 4-5 weeks ago. So I added in.. of course, but my mom's family were austrians. Then I got a smile and a nod.

You think I'm kidding? I am not kidding. My grandmother's family actually was from the german border, near auswitz. So I can bend that a little bit when i need to :)

Ironside:

Are you high ?

No.. it's true.. they were pushed out by force.. but they, and their children, did not have to live the next 50 years as slaves to the communists either.

They went where they wanted to, they did what they wanted to. Unlike the families locked inside Poland.

It was awful nice of all those austrian hungarians to fight to establish a country named Poland in 1918. Did they invent the language too?

IronsideThreads: 56 Posts: 6,196 Joined: Feb 26, 09 ♂	Nov 22, 09, 21:12 #12
cheehaw: When I was growing up, a teenager in the late 70's, being Polish was not something you advertised. cheehaw: The last time someone gave me an eeew when I said my family were Polish was just 4-5 weeks ago. That pretty moronic attitude, I could understand that they have same issue with first generation immigrants but that, is pretty stupid.

cheehawThreads: 9 Posts: 831 Joined: Oct 10, 09 ♀	Nov 22, 09, 21:21 #13
Ironside: That pretty moronic attitude, I could understand that they have same issue with first generation immigrants but that, is pretty stupid. perhaps. but pretty common, been experiencing it all my life. So just tell em you're austrian, no problem. We are pretty much austrian anyway. Being Polish, what is it really? Warsaw to Vienna is a shorter drive than New York to Miami.

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Nov 23, 09, 10:43 #14

Ironside:

he didn't want them in his volunteer army, as they would have bad influence on the army morale!

You have obviously never read:
Harvey Sarner: Anders and the Soldiers of the Second Polish Corps
in which he discusses Anders attitude to both the recruitment of Polish Jews and 'deserters' from the Second Polish Corps in some detail. He also details the material support given by the Second Polish Corps in helping Irgun and his empathy to the Jewish fight for a free state of their own.

cheehaw:

Interesting. Then Polish people outside of Poland have no ancestry? Definitely unique. Kind of rewrites world history. So then, that would also explain why soviet Russians inside Poland are now Polish?

Only you can draw such a stupid conclusion. [quote=sjam]

This is my understanding of Polish citizenship:

If you were born outside Poland to a Polish citizen then the Polish state considers you a Polish citizen also. If neither of your parents were Polish citizens at the time of your birth then you are not Polish although you can reside in Poland for a qualifying period and become a Polish citizen.

If neither of your parents were Polish citizens at the time of your birth then you are not Polish. If you were born in the USA to non-Polish citizens then you are only an American.

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Nov 23, 09, 12:01 #15

sjam:

This is my understanding of Polish citizenship:

If you were born outside Poland to a Polish citizen then the Polish state considers you a Polish citizen also. If neither of your parents were Polish citizens at the time of your birth then you are not Polish although you can reside in Poland for a qualifying period and become a Polish citizen.

If neither of your parents were Polish citizens at the time of your birth then you are not Polish. If you were born in the USA to non-Polish citizens then you are only an American.

Pretty much spot-on. The only thing that you have missed is that a child born in Poland to non-Polish parents will be Polish if it would otherwise be stateless (i.e. when both parents are unknown, or their citizenship cannot be established or they themselves are stateless).

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Edited by: cheehaw Nov 23, 09, 12:42 #16

sjam:

If you were born outside Poland to a Polish citizen then the Polish state considers you a Polish citizen also. If neither of your parents were Polish citizens at the time of your birth then you are not Polish although you can reside in Poland for a qualifying period and become a Polish citizen.

If neither of your parents were Polish citizens at the time of your birth then you are not Polish. If you were born in the USA to non-Polish citizens then you are only an American

I think what you are trying to say is.. not a Polish citizen.

Kind of difficult to erase a person's ancestry sjam. But you sure are working hard at it. Any particular reason for that?

It would sound rather silly if I went around telling people I fell to earth when they asked about my family.

But you know what, if you really feel this way about people, why don't you send an email to the owner of this board and ask him why he would even bother with a section as silly as genealogy and ancestry.. if all these things are nonsense. Maybe you should head to that section and tell everyone who posts there that they are not Polish either.

rozumiemnicThreads: 3 Posts: 805 Joined: Nov 16, 09 ♀	Nov 23, 09, 14:32 #17
sjam: If you were born outside Poland to a Polish citizen then the Polish state considers you a Polish citizen also until there's a medical bill to pay...:)

HarryThreads: 59 Posts: 7,994 Joined: May 2, 07 ♂	Nov 23, 09, 14:53 #18
cheehaw: a section as silly as genealogy and ancestry.. if all these things are nonsense. Maybe you should head to that section and tell everyone who posts there that they are not Polish either. There is a rather large difference between having Polish ancestry and being a Polish citizen.

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Edited by: sjam Nov 23, 09, 14:53 #19

cheehaw:

Kind of difficult to erase a person's ancestry sjam. But you sure are working hard at it. Any particular reason for that?

How can anyone construe I am trying to 'erase a person's ancestry' apart from you. I have a long line of Polish ancestry out there somewhere (Poland that is) I was born in the UK so I am a British citizen, thats how nationality laws work here. This doesn't mean that my Polish ancestry has been erased because I am a British citizen or maybe it does in your Martian world?

Is one of your parents a Polish citizen? If so you are Polish if not then you are not. I didn't make this rule, I am too busy stopping the Soviet Story getting out to the mainstream media to have much to do with Polish citizenship laws... but vote for me in the next MEP elections and I will see what my other sinister associates can do. Oh no, you can't as you not Polish yet. Catch 22. But maybe I'll win that MEP seat without your vote. LOL.

Look if you feel inferior being an American rather than Polish just go and live in Poland for five years(?) and become a Pole if that is your want. Just go do it— you will be happier and Poilsh. LOL.

HarryThreads: 59 Posts: 7,994 Joined: May 2, 07 ♂	Nov 23, 09, 15:19 #20
Anybody else find it amusing to be having Ugandan discussions on PF?

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,160 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Nov 23, 09, 15:26 #21
I'm sure Idi Amin would be pleased :)

MareGaeaThreads: 45 Posts: 5,529 Joined: Feb 6, 08 ♂	Nov 23, 09, 17:05 #22
Talk about the Last King Of Scotland anway.... >^..^< M-G (tiens)

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Edited by: cheehaw Nov 23, 09, 19:27 #23

Harry:

There is a rather large difference between having Polish ancestry and being a Polish citizen.

yeah so why sjam is trying to insist I want to be a Polish citizen is beyond me.

He sure does seem bent on it though.

sjam:

but vote for me in the next MEP elections and I will see what my other sinister associates can do.

no desire to be a british citizen ruled by morons either. thanks for the offer though.

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Edited by: sjam Nov 24, 09, 12:27 #24

cheehaw:

yeah so why sjam is trying to insist I want to be a Polish citizen is beyond me.

It seems you want to insist that you are Polish and not Amercian! However without a parent who was a Polish citizen at the time of your birth you will always remain an American and not a Pole unless you actually go and live in Poland for a few years then you will have what you so desire.

cheehaw:

The last time someone gave me an eeew when I said my family were Polish

Maybe they just thought "Ah, that would explain everything". LOL.

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Nov 24, 09, 17:25 #25

Ironside:

he didn't want them in his volunteer army, as they would have bad influence on the army morale!

Seems that the bad influence on these particular Polish-Jews in Scotland was anti-semitism by fellow soldiers in the Polish Armed Forces.

The Times | April 12, 1944

SOLDIERS' PROTEST IN LONDON
The Press Association states:-
It can now be disclosed that 100 Jewish soldiers left their Polish army unit in Scotland in January and set out for London to protest against anti-Jewish views in the Polish army. Twenty-two of them were arrested by Polish military police at a Scottish town, but the others reached London, where they denied that they were deserters or that they, were trying to escape military service. They saw representatives of the Polish Government and asked to be transferred to British army battle units. A spokesman for the men stated that the Polish Government had conceded most of their claims.

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Nov 24, 09, 20:23 #26

sjam:

It seems you want to insist that you are Polish and not Amercian! However without a parent who was a Polish citizen at the time of your birth you will always remain an American and not a Pole unless you actually go and live in Poland for a few years then you will have what you so desire.

-snip--

Maybe they just thought "Ah, that would explain everything". LOL.

I have no idea where you get this stuff from. I have said from the outset that I am a Polish American. Maybe where you live people are desperate to fit in quickly and forget the past.. but in America, everyone is from somewhere else unless they are a 100% native american. Some people's ancestors have been here 400 years, some are just arriving today. There isn't a great big effort to erase anyone's genealogy like you seem so set upon doing.

In America.. we can discuss.. hispanics.. blacks.. africans.. latinos.. east europeans.. asians.. europeans.. and we can take each of those groups and break them down further into.. british. scottish.. Mexican.. Nigerian.. Polish etc.

Perhaps your desire to see your self as British rubs off on your view of anyone who sees themself as Polish-American or German-american or Mexican-American... I would guess, it has more do with you receiving some sort of government benefit from the UK than anything else. Or, there is something in your past that you are trying to forget.

But that doesn't mean everyone has to forget just because you feel that way. There are Polish communities all over the east coast and midwest. We call them Polish for a reason, which you simply do not comprehend.

Grzegorz_Threads: 80 Posts: 6,102 Joined: Nov 16, 06 ♂	Nov 24, 09, 20:39 #27
cheehaw: Polish people are looked upon as sort of backwards, not real bright By Yanks ?

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Nov 24, 09, 20:39 #28

sjam:

anti-semitism by fellow soldiers in the Polish Armed Forces

Not surprising. The only thing which surprises me is the romantic image of the Polish army that most Poles seem to have. In reality the humiliation and brutality towards the soldiers of the Polish army was legendary even before the war. Two of my family members were abused so much that they commited suicide. Not a very good way to raise morale, eh?

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Edited by: sjam Nov 24, 09, 20:42 #29

cheehaw:

I have no idea where you get this stuff from.

Polish citizenship law.

I believe there are over 10 million Americans of Polish ancestry but that doesn't make then Polish only Polish-Americans. This is simple concept is obviously too difficult for you to comprehend.

My English mother had Scottish ancestry from about 250 years ago. That doesn't make me Scottish!

My EU passport is clearly stamped UK citizen so guess what that means? Yes you got it! I am British. So how can I desire something I already have?

However about 8 years or so ago I was informed by the Polish Embassy in London that I do also qualify as a Polish citizen under Polish law as the Polish state recognises that my father was still a Polish citizen when I was born even though the Polish communist illegally revoked the citizenship of the Polish Armed Forces that refused to return to Poland after the war.

Grzegorz_Threads: 80 Posts: 6,102 Joined: Nov 16, 06 ♂	Nov 24, 09, 20:51 #30
vetala: In reality How do you know the reality ?

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