Polish military uniforms - collar markings

Hi all,

Hope everyone had a lovely xmas and new years!

A question for our Polish military experts - does anyone know if the squiggly diagonal bars on Polish army shirt/jacket collars have any significance or meaning, or are they purely decorative?

Cheers Dan

Generally speaking, diagonal stripes are given for two reasons, a certain duration of active duty, such as one stripe for every three years; and also for service spent out-of country.

Dan I;m not sure what you are referring to.

Mate, it's those diagonal/zig-zag lines that are embroidered on officer's shirt collars, and they also appear on the cuffs of coats and the band around the czapska. I've got a photo of my grand uncle from, it appears, the 1920's, with just a solid embroidered zig zag line on his collar, whereas my other grand uncle's and dziadeck's collars (pics from just before WW2) show the zig zag but as a thicker 'bar', with other zig zaggy lines inside the border. I'm not very computer savvy so I don't know how to post a picture. Cheers mate.

PS - I'm not talking about chevrons which appear on the arm of a shirt.


Thanks Jason. They seem to have commenced in the late 18th Century, and particularly around the time of the Napoleonic Wars. Any idea as to why they are shown as squiggly lines, and where the idea came from?

Is this what you talking about?From wiki:Distinguishing mark of the Polish soldier was also silver tubing on the collar: wide for the generals, slightly narrower for officers and narrow for private.Seems to be purely decorative and I think it looks good.

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Is this what you're referring to?

Thanks Jason and Grubas - exactly what I was talking about.

Jason, your photos show similar lines to the picture of my grand uncle from the 1920's, though his lines were a little shorter. Nice photos too mate - ancestors?

Grubas, yours show the thicker bar,which I suspect is far more modern. Sometimes the bar is hollow, with further lines/scrollwork within that hollow section.

Any idea as to who came up with these and why they appear as they do?

Thanks guys.

No problem dude.The color of the collar indicated branch of army.


They were slightly changing between 1919 and 1939.Here is link to Wiki:
pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barwy_broni_i_s%C5%82u%C5%BCb_Wojska_Polskiego_II_RP

They are definitely rank-based insignia, I can tell you that. Their origin on collars appears to be Napoleonic/Prussian, but that is only my conjecture.

Thick bar indicates a General.

Hey Dan!
There were two different collar markings. Single one for privates and under-officers and double for officers.

I'm not 100% sure but they were derived from historical Polish uniforms. Polish Legions during WWI had such marking on collar - it was called legion wezyk.


OK!
I checked it!
It seems that Polish Legions (WWI volunteers mostly form Russian Poland, who were fighting for Austria-Hungary) used that marking on the collar for all which was traditional used for Generals in the Polish Army.

Called Legion's wavy line was transferred to the Polish Army after 1918.



Different position is so called general's cut:

Thanks mate.

Hello, I have been searching for information on my grandfather's military service in Poland during WWII and have mostly come up short. He always claimed serving in the underground and we recently found a photo of him in his uniform. Would anyone be willing to take a look to maybe determine what branch of the military he was in or his rank? I can email or you can email me at curtis234@gmail. Thank you

-CJH

I'm trying to identify my relative from this photo. I am guessing Polish military but not sure of what time period, possibly WW1 or before. I would like to know more about age, rank, branch, and ultimately identity but I know that is a stretch. Last name Mach. Thanks!

Are we supposed to read your mind? What photo?

Trying again to upload

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3* on his shoulders say the rank is Porucznik. Young Officer. It's second on officer scale (after Podporucznik. Rank given after successful graduation in Military Academy).

Captain of the "Blue Army" -> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Army_%28Poland%29

At least that's my first thought. During and soon after WW1 Poles were wearing so many different uniforms that it's hard to say. Besides, we can't be sure what the real colour of the uniform was... what is this ? Some painting based on black & white photo ?

BTW Pre-WW2 ranks were starting from 1 star, so it's captain.

Thank you so much for your assistance identifying his rank. Could you tell me what time period this would be? The only family information we have is "uncle". My great grandfather emigrated to the US in 1902 at age of 17 with his brother who was 15. This was found in my grandfathers effects with no other information.

Didn't know. Sorry. Thought ranks were the same then and when i was serving. :)

My aunt has the print in an oval frame that was removed from my Grandfather's home in the mid 1960's. She sent this copy of that from Florida. I believe that it is a photo that she has. It looks like a painting to me but I really have no idea. The colors on my copy are rather muted so that is what you see. Olive green and gold bars. It does not help that the background color blends with the color of the uniform. I have one picture of my great grandfather from the mid 1930's and he has similar features which leads me to believe it could be a brother or his uncle. Unfortunately we do not have very much to work with as far as oral history.

in this case 1919 - 1921.
Capitan of Haller's Army. A the time in this army served some 24,000 Polish-American volunteers.

Can anyone help me out in identifying the particulars of this uniform? It's a picture of a relative about WW1 timeframe. I am interested in whether anyone can determine what type of unit he served in or what his rank was. Any help would be appreciated. Here is a link to the photo:

It's definitely a uniform of Mountain Infantry, one of the Podhale Rifle Regiments at that time, the biggest clue is the single eagles' feather on his cap as well as the emblem on his collar. Not enough clearly visible details to identify the unit, as for the rank; my guess would be Lance Corporal. Mind you-it's just a guess, insignia is not clearly visible.

Greetings... looking for information regarding this family member. Last name: Missona

Can anyone help me find information on a date range for this photo?
Branch of military?
Rank?
Any help is greatly appreciated.

Unfortunately I can only post 100 mg file which blurrs the details but he has 3 stars one each side of his collar.

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Unfortunately for you because all the details plus coloring on his collar are needed to determinate his rank.
He is wearing uniform of KK Austria-Hungary. Three stars without any other details visible, could be: from sergeant to sergeant major or captain or colonel. Realistically, he is too young to be colonel, captain or sergeant major. Most likely a sergeant.

Branch of military without any details and color, you are kidding right?

A better image would help, especially if it was in colour. The three stars on the collar is similar to a gorget-patch worn by a sergeant in the Austro-Hungarian army, however different armies use/used different insignia and this has not always been consistent.

I notice Cyrillic writing under the photo. Three stars in the Tsarist army were (during various periods) worn as shoulder decorations by Lieutenant-Colonels (he looks too young for this and it isn't a shoulder decoration) and in a different form (again during various periods) by Senior NCO (he also looks a bit young for that however it is more likely). Wearing them on the collar however may be a different matter and the uniform suggests Austro-Hungary. For further details, you'd need an expert on historic uniforms during that time and in the region.

Do you know what part of Poland he lived in, and when that photo was taken?

Have you thought of asking the Polish Army Museum in Warsaw? Try these addresses: muzeumwp@muzeumwp.pl sekretariat@muzeumwp.pl

The photo seems to have been taken by B. Henner in Jarosław. That's what it says in the Latin alphabet. So it was the Austrian partition. Assuming the man in the photo lived in Jarosław, the uniform was probably Austrian.

Bernard Henner Junior (1866-1913) was a son of Bernard Henner Sr who was a famous photographer in Przemyśl.

(Assuming I can work out how to upload this picture) I'd appreciate some information on my great-uncle's uniform - looks like narrow cording on a black collar? Handwriting on the back gives Wloclawek 1930. He was Jewish. Thanks for your help!

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