10,000 ISRAELIS READY TO CLAIM FOR POLISH CITIZENSHIP AND POLISH LAND!

Do you feel Polish Army families (sorry we are Roman Catholic not Jewish) that were given property in Kresy for service to Polish goverment, then taken on Stalins orders to slave and die in Siberia, should be compensated by Poland or Russia?



This is why I find Russia's artical "calling the kettle black" shall I say? By the way it was "Communist Poland" that made the deal to reimburse the families from eastern Poland in 1945. Today with Poland being free, they are taking care of the families that were born and fought for Poland.

The name "Palestine" dates back to 5 century BC (Greek: Palaistine) and comprised the whole coastal area in the region, regardles who inhabitted them. Ever heard about Philistines? :))




Do you think that justifies the expulsion of some 700,000 Palestinians into refugee camps? Do you think that would justify the abolition of the Ukrainian state/ After all they had never been a country before late 20th century.



But they had land, homes, lives.
Do these count only if there is a flag and a government? Jews did not have a country for nearly 2000 years. And even the one they had they acquired as a result of conquest and extermination of other peoples and cultures. Would that make Jews worthy of expulsions to refugee camps, or ghettos, if you will?

Is that land now in Poland or in Russia or Belarus?



My point is that we did not take a sovereign country, expel the people and set up our own in place of it.That seems to be your impression of what happened. But it just isn't true.

In fact both Jews and Arabs were living in an area with no independent political status (as part of an empire). The Zionist movement encouraged Jewish immigration and accelerated the development of the country as part of a movement to liberate the jews from an oppressive existence in exile. Arabs opposed this for their own national and religious reasons. Continuous fighting between these two groups led to a UN imposed compromise which was accepted by the Jews and rejected by the Arabs. The war that the Arabs started to prevent the compromise resulted in refugees. This was mostly because Arab armies encouraged arabs to leave and get out of the way so they could wipe out the Jews and then they could then come back and take their homes. Other arabs were driven out in the fighting (not 700,000) just as the Arabs drove Jews out of Jerusalem, the Etzion bloc and other places. Each side tried to drive out the other. (That's what happens in war and it's usually wise not to start one). They were not put into camps by Israel. They were put there by Arabs and by UN agencies. If they are still in camps to this day (60 years later!) there is obviously someone who wants to perpetuate a crisis situation and it isn't Israel.

It does not take 60 years to resettle refugees.

Kaliszer it doesn't matter where the land is, it matters who is responsible....get it through your thick head.....

My thick head thinks that it's more important to solve the problem than talk about responsibility. But if you want to talk responsibility, then fine:

The palestinians are responsible for rejecting the partition and starting a war and creating their own refugee problem.

The Arab countries are responsible for not letting the palestinians set up an independent state during the 19 years they controlled the west bank and gaza.

The Arab countries, and the UN are responsible for letting them fester in refugee camps for 60 years without doing a thing to solve the problem.

Israel's responsibility is to defend itself, just like any other country on earth.
Get that through your thick head.

No the allied powers are responsible for taking Palatinians land and giving it to the Jews and the Jews for accepting that....

Your blaming the Palatinians for not acceptiing there land being taken away. Your crazy.. Now granted Israel is here to stay.....and don't believe in the terrorism but Israel should go out of its way as much as you can to appease the Palatinians because its their land that was stolen.

By the way Poland doesn't owe jews sh*t, if I rob someone and then pawn their things...Whose the one who should be punished...Me or the pawn shop? Obviously me....

Look at the map and see for yourself how many refugee camps are located on lands controlled by Israel. mrefugees




Palestinian Arabs who fled or were forced out of their homes during the fighting.
Estimates vary from about 520,000 (Israeli sources) to 726,000 (UN sources) to over 800,000 (Arab sources)



Following the Six Day War, In 1967 Israel occupied the additional 22 percent of Palestine that had eluded it in 1948, the West Bank and the Gaza Strip. It also occupied parts of Egypt (which since were returned) and Syria (which remain under occupation). Yet Israel has not set up an independent Palestinian state, but Israel exercised full or partial control over 97 percent of the West Bank and 40 percent of the Gaza Strip, while the Palestinian Authority (PA), established in 1994 pursuant to the Oslo Accords, had full control over the rest.



The original population of what is now Israel was 95 percent Muslim and Christian. And yet, Muslim and Christian refugees are not being allowed to return to their homes in the current "Jewish state." Israeli peace negotiators refuse to even discuss the possibility of applying this UN guaranteed right. Why? Because that brings us back to the original issue, claiming their property confiscated by the Israel.

I don't what year you are referring to , but in 1948 the population of the whole mandate, including what became israel and the palestinian territories was about 33% Jews, 7% christians and 60% muslims. So in the area of Israel proper the porportions were nowhere near what you state.

The facts don't seem to bother you. They didn't take it away from the palestinians. It wasn't theirs to take away from, as I explained several times. And we weren't crazy to accept it. They were crazy to reject it. The fact is we have a country and they don't.

With the palestinian movement led by Arafat and others who declared constantly that their goal is to destroy israel we'd have to be crazy to help them set up a state to allow them to do so. After the Oslo accords, at camp david we did enter negotionations accepting the idea of a palestinian state and Arafat answered with the intifada. It's not israel that's keeping them from independence, it's their inability to set it up themselves, and maybe their lack of interest. (It's much easier to blow up buses and blame everyone else for their problems). And it's certianly not our job to set it up for them. They'll tell you that themselves.

Its wasn't theirs to begin with, whose was it then if not the Palatinians.. just because it wasnt a proper state that doesn't mean that didn't belong to the palatinians. If this is the attitude and justification used by Israeli, I now know where I stand and who has my complete support.....

Here Is Another Perspective on the Creation of Israel

I would suggest that you read it to get a fuller understanding of what is going on in the Middle East...the prime movers behind Israel have always been Freemasons/Zionists, led by the Rothschild family, who are BIG freemasons...Albert Pike was a notorious American traitor, the 'Grand Pontiff' of Scottish Rite Freemasonry in America, a leader of the 'Knights of The Golden Circle', a para-military group that formed the core of the Confederate Army (US Civil War), and a founder of the Ku Klux Klan...he also believed that Lucifer was god.

http://www.threeworldwars.com/albert-pike.htm

Why is it so obvious to you that it belonged to the palestinians? Because it was called "palestine"? The term palestinians referred to anyhone who lived there, Jew, Muslim or Christian. It wasn't the name of an ethnic group till the Arabs started using it in the 50s and 60s. The land belonged to no one group. Jews and arabs both had a right to be there and to immigrate to there. There was large arab immigration too during the century before 1948. But since they had totally different national aspirations, they could not be united in one state. If the partition was honored by both sides, there would never have been a single arab refugee and the arabs would have had their palestinian state 60 years ago.

Tell me the percentage of Jews that lived in that area prior to WW2...what 5%... sure didn't belong to Jews. I guess to be clear it belongs to the people who lived their during WW2. Be it Jews Muslims or Christians...In this case it was the the Muslims no matter if they were referred to as Palastinians or not at the time..

Forget it M', they are the chosen people...the only people ever to have suffered...us mere mortals cannot critisize them...if we do we are oooh so evil anti semites......( being anti anything is wrong,but just who the fek decided not liking jews was the number one big n nasty sin of all time?)

youtube.com/watch?v=7kL9hxcIsJ4&feature=related

Some of the older generation.. :)

If they gain this citizenship that they think they are entitiled to will they stay in Poland? No, I don't think so because they would have EU citizenship and the they could move freely wherever they wanted. I do not think 10,000 people deserve membership. I don't think they will have enough evidence to prove they deserve citizenship.

I found this site which seems to have a lot of population statistics.
http://www.israelipalestinianprocon.org/populationpalestine.html
As you'll see in the graphs, in 1940 Jews were about 30% of the total population of Palestine (what was supposed to be partitioned into jewish and arab states). In 1950 the Jews were about 50%. This inlcudes the arabs who were in Gaza and the west bank which were under Egyptian and Jordanian control till 1967.
In Jerusalem itself Jews were the majority since about 1870.

I never said I hated anyone. My family lived in eastern Poland. Wolyn was where our home was located. In fact we had Ukraine's and Jewish living on our estate. My grandfather taught men and boys to read and write. I have documents that it was the Ukraine family that saved my grandfather from being shot vs. going to Siberia.

This does not make what took place 1942 OK. It was not OK and although Ukraine said they would say sorry, they have yet to do this.

sorry I needed off topic where we were sent.

kaliszer wrote:

Why is it so obvious to you that it belonged to the palestinians? Because it was called "palestine"? The term palestinians referred to anyhone who lived there, Jew, Muslim or Christian. It wasn't the name of an ethnic group till the Arabs started using it in the 50s and 60s. The land belonged to no one group. Jews and arabs both had a right to be there and to immigrate to there. There was large arab immigration too during the century before 1948. But since they had totally different national aspirations, they could not be united in one state. If the partition was honored by both sides, there would never have been a single arab refugee and the arabs would have had their palestinian state 60 years ago.

Sure, it belonged to the Palestinians, because they lived there for centuries...before the
20th Century, Jews were never more than 1% of the population...Jews, in modern times, first started emmigrating to Palestine in the late 19th Century, from parts of Russia. Lithuania, Ukraine etc...there was always a small community of Jews in/around Jerusalem, but these Jews were mostly poor, and supported by various Jewish charities to some extent...and they made up about 1% of the population of Palestine...about the
same relation of Jews percentage-wise to the rest of the world's population...the big influx came after the first big land purchases by the Rothschilds, and then, the Balfour Declaration, which by the way, specifically stated that 'none of the rights to property and liberty enjoyed by the current native residents' ie. Palestinian Arabs, was to be infringed on by the immigrating Jews...these are the FACTS...to say 'Israel' belongs to the Jews is an historical absurdity...what right do Lithuanian, Polish, Ukranian, Latvian & Russian Jews have to this territory in the Middle East?...none...the ancestors of these Eastern Jews never, ever set foot in, or lived in the Holy Land...How could someone whose family, for generations, were residents of Lithuania claim OWNERSHIP of Palestine?

Well said Pilsudski, displacement doesn't provide entitlement, nuff said!!

I don't believe that Israel should have been created, not because I don't believe Jews don't deserve country..but because it was unfair that Palastians had to pay the price...Good idea would have been to give a part of Germany after WW2. However now that it was created its to late... both peoples have a right to be there.. Now the question is what should the borders be.... I believe that it should be the orginal borders before Israeli-Arab war...Now as Kaliszer kindly pointed out and he's right its not going to stop the attacks and the Israelis will lose a strategic advantage and somewhat of a buffer zone.. from a military point of view he is right.... however from a moral point of view it should be the original borders....Question is what's more important the military or the moral view.... I say moral, for the simple fact is that's how Israel is going to convince the world its position..this is what's going to gain it more allies...Lets be honest theirs a few countries that support Israel and a few that support Palastians but the majority is on the fence...

Interesting to read that the Isreali deputy PM has called for a "rain of fire" on trouble spots in gaza...hhmmm,lets see,another word for rain of fire,er,Holocaust? :(

Isthatu, if an enemy were lobbing mortars and rockets into civilian neighborhoods in your country (say like in the blitz) I imagine your country would attack that enemy. Was the british bombing of cities in germany a "holocaust"? Your use of simplistic logic is just a way to throw in the H word, as a provocation. I don't think you use that word to criticise any other country that carries out miltary response to agression. What does that say about your objectivity?

you imagine wrong then mate, For 30 years we had the IRA doing just that,not once did the british army feel the need to fire artilary into Catholic neighbourhoods just to take out possible terrorists.
You can shove the "poor pity me the poor jew always being picked on by the anti semite goy" its a boring,whinging cop out that just shows your inability to entire a debate and admit that your country overreacts to a horrific extent.


Yes ,it was,bloody unadulterated murder and Bomber Harris should have been in front of a war crimes tribunal.



if it walks like a duck........to coin a phrase...
and sorry,Im on record condeming the US (and Britain for complicity) in waging an aggresive war(what the nazis were charged with) and for the concentration camp at GITMO as being more akin to nazi germany and gestapo like renditions being sick.

Isthatu, it is a good example with the NRA......but the only reason they didn't was because it was all one country...if they did it would split Ireland. No need to worry about that in Israeli Palastian conflict..

On a separate note I agree with you that the Israelis overreact. But you cannot say Israelis are more responsible for this then Palastians. At the very least they are both equally responsible. Palastians for the attacks, and Israelis for the revenge attacks.

I am of the opinion that if the three Arab nations intended to wipe out Isreal prior to the six day war then they deserve to lose the Golan heights and the few other territories taken.

Wroclaw boy, can you blame them? at least at the beginning when the creation of Israel was still fresh........

I agree 90%...the 10 % is that it is not "the palastinians" and "the Israleis" but some terrorists/criminals/freedom fighters vs a Government and a first world Army. The everyday people of both sides are the victims,the sicko men on both sides who like to play at war are the guilty ones.

isthatu a good distinction... with that I must say that I agree....

But the chosen can claim the land because of things that happened thousands years ago... and yours dare to act like some moral voice of humanity...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7244072.stm

If Israel is responsible then I applaud them. Assassination attempts on terrorist leaders should be used more often. Much better then the collective punishment..